A
Anonymous
Guest
Thinking about it, I don't know If I would want to be going offshore in an 18ft boat unless the conditions are perfect.
Missing Boat
- Thread starter Rockfish
- Start date
staying alive
Active Member
Maybe its time for the charter people to invest in good quality inflatable life jackets, it's sad but true, people won't wear the bulky old style jackets, the inflatables you can wear all day and it's no big deal.
A sad event like this helps to hammer the point home
A sad event like this helps to hammer the point home
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osprey
Guest
While I fully endorse the use of lifejackets I don't think it would have changed the outcome of this situation except maybe in the recovery of the victims. An EPIRB and life raft along with lifejackets might have made a difference nobody will ever know for sure though. All that we can do moving forward is pray for the families and try to learn from this tragedy. Be safe out there fellow fishers, Osprey
Duffer
Active Member
Staying Alive I have to agree with you on the old style Keyhole lifejackets. We had this discussion at work this morning. Few people prob realize on here Transport Canada only recognizes the old Key Hole Style life jackets for Guiding. Tell me how many average Joes on here would where those while out for a weekend fish? However you do see more wearing the comfortable inflatable types. Just so ya know Staying Alive the keyhole type Transport Canada requires you to have are not cheap so the inflatbles wouldnt cost much more. My prayers go out to all the families and friends of all involved in this tragic event.
Comfortable self-inflating jackets, a wearable EPIRB and good life raft are standard equipment on my boat, and really should be on guide boats fishing outside most every day of the summer. The life raft is only good if you can deploy it, which in this case where the boat may have flipped quickly, could be problematic. However, with a self inflating jacket on you probably have a couple hours in that water, which should be time, under most conditions, for rescuers to get help to the EPIRB location.
Did not want to comment until the outcome was finally determined,after 35 years of working on this coast there are two places I do not like Cape Mudge on a big flood with a S/E gale and Cape Cook ie Brooks Peninsula in any weather.My godfather spent 6 days in a raft after his boat sank and they had suspended the search but he was in a raft, most of the time.There always will be accidents and maybe some poor choices were made but that does not make it any easier on the families.I fish on the west side of the Charlottes in 18 footers and as has been said if you waited for ideal conditions you might never get out, but we do wear mustang flotation suits to at least give you a chance.Tragedy..
D
Dirtdog67
Guest
Thoughts and Prayers to Kevin and his family, as well as the 3 u.s. men that never made it back safe.. Dirty
Peahead
Well-Known Member
X2 Osprey !! - I had already written this but just hadn't posted yet:
While I know life jackets do save lives I think it would be extremely optimistic to think life jackets would have done much to change the outcome of this group, in this particular situation. Hypothermia is the biggest enemy out there and life jackets don’t offer much protection from that. 7 miles offshore floating around in cold west coast waters, unable to get out of the water, nobody around to rush to your aid and no mayday call going out. The scenario is horrific. Hypothermia will kill you in a couple hours or less - These fellows were out there for days.
Survival suits, EPIRB and life raft may have helped in this situation but on a 19 foot boat with 3 guests and the guide, there'd be limited room to carry life raft and survival suits for four.
I would like to learn more about an accident like this and how it could have been prevented in the first place. Do we just chalk this up to the fact that these things can happen and that we all accept this sort of risk when we fish offshore ? ...or is there a way to completely avoid this sort of accident and still go fishing ? Is there too much pressure on fishing guides to “push the envelope” when it comes to bad weather situations and wanting to provide their paying customers with fish ? Was there a safer place to fish that day ? Are some lodges using boats for offshore use that may not be suited for those conditions ? Is a 19 foot boat too small for offshore use with four people on board ? Are the boats equipped with appropriate back up power and navigation equipment ? Are the guides experienced in offshore conditions ?
There are many questions but mine right now are more about prevention of this sort of accident happing in the future.
Sushihunter
Active Member
I am sure that in due time, (about a year or so), Transport Canada will issue a report on the accident. While it won't be complete without testimony from survivors, I'm sure there will be lots to learn.
Hopefully many questions will be answered in time.
-Was the anchor deployed at the time of capsizing, or did it self-deploy when the boat rolled over?
-Was the motor running, in gear, etc. ?
-Why couldn't the boat be found if it was in the same position for 6 days?
-Would additional safety gear have possibly saved the men? EPIRB, self-inflating lifejackets, liferaft, etc.
-Would fishing with a "buddy boat" have saved them, or put more people in danger?
-Was this boat subjected to the TC stability test? The result?
Will TC make more regulations on Charter boats as a result of this accident?
Many questions, lets hope that there will be as many answers.
Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250
Hopefully many questions will be answered in time.
-Was the anchor deployed at the time of capsizing, or did it self-deploy when the boat rolled over?
-Was the motor running, in gear, etc. ?
-Why couldn't the boat be found if it was in the same position for 6 days?
-Would additional safety gear have possibly saved the men? EPIRB, self-inflating lifejackets, liferaft, etc.
-Would fishing with a "buddy boat" have saved them, or put more people in danger?
-Was this boat subjected to the TC stability test? The result?
Will TC make more regulations on Charter boats as a result of this accident?
Many questions, lets hope that there will be as many answers.
Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250
Duffer
Active Member
Well said Jim instead of us pointing fingers everywhere on this thread it should be left for the eventual investigation to happen there are way to many unanswered questions here which we dont know the answers and in respect to family and friends of the fisherman should be left for another thread. It hits close to everyone on here Guides,Sports or Commercial fisherman...
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phnapa
Guest
Havent had my life jackets out of the front of my boat for years, guys got to have a better think about that.
Peahead
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Duffer
Well said Jim instead of us pointing fingers everywhere on this thread it should be left for the eventual investigation to happen there are way to many unanswered questions here which we dont know the answers and in respect to family and friends of the fisherman should be left for another thread. It hits close to everyone on here Guides,Sports or Commercial fisherman...
[/quote
Jim's comment about a TC investigation happening in due time is quite obvious to most of us I would think but can we not also discuss these same questions here ? I am not sure Duffer's reply to it makes much sense to me. Duffer, are you implying Jim is saying anything about people on here are pointing fingers ??? I know for myself and hopefully others here, that when there is a forum discussion about an accident and what might have gone wrong, and what could have been done, it is all good. Forum members could come up with some great opinions and ideas. Its called a 'discussion'. The last thing I'd want is this sort of discussion to be sensored by you or anyone. Let TC do the investigation, sure, but is that a reason for us to drop the topic ?
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osprey
Guest
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking about my safety gear and its use. I think it is one of the few positives we can draw from this grim occurence. None of my posts were meant to anger or rub salt in any wounds. I think it is healthy to have analytical discussions on subjects like this in hopes that history does not repeat itself. But I also understand that it may be too soon to talk about for some. So I apoligize if I have offended anyone, it was not my intention. And at this point I would not second guess the efforts of anyone involved in the search and rescue efforts or the actions of any of the people on board. A sudden capsize, if that is what happened, is as bad as it gets and I think very few of us would be prepared for the aftermath. Hopefully some more facts come out of the investigation that we can all learn from. Sincerely, Osprey
the fog ducker
Well-Known Member
have followed this tragic event since posted here on SFBC ,
has been a real tuff pill ta swallow , consider WCVI to be our backyard ,, makes us relly think...
did not know any of the 4 fisherman , but ,
would like to give our condolances to all of there family and friends ..
Very Sad..
Take care
FD ( Felix )
n Crew
thefogducker@hotmail.com
has been a real tuff pill ta swallow , consider WCVI to be our backyard ,, makes us relly think...
did not know any of the 4 fisherman , but ,
would like to give our condolances to all of there family and friends ..
Very Sad..
Take care
FD ( Felix )
n Crew
thefogducker@hotmail.com
Sushihunter
Active Member
Peahead, and others:
My comments here are not meant to shut down any discussion on this forum. Unlike some comments sections on other news sites, the discussion here has been very respectful of the people who lost their lives in this terrible accident.
We all want to know what happened. That's just human nature. It's why we slow down at traffic accidents, and why fires attract crowds.
But more than that, we want to understand what went wrong, and how we can prevent that very thing from happening to us and our guests. That is also the reason that TC and other agencies do in-depth investigations into accidents such as this. To understand and prevent future accidents.
I view all respectful discussion to be positive and hope that we will all learn lessons from this tragedy. Maybe that EPIRB is not as expensive as it seems.
Let’s all stay safe out there.
Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250
My comments here are not meant to shut down any discussion on this forum. Unlike some comments sections on other news sites, the discussion here has been very respectful of the people who lost their lives in this terrible accident.
We all want to know what happened. That's just human nature. It's why we slow down at traffic accidents, and why fires attract crowds.
But more than that, we want to understand what went wrong, and how we can prevent that very thing from happening to us and our guests. That is also the reason that TC and other agencies do in-depth investigations into accidents such as this. To understand and prevent future accidents.
I view all respectful discussion to be positive and hope that we will all learn lessons from this tragedy. Maybe that EPIRB is not as expensive as it seems.
Let’s all stay safe out there.
Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250
I remember a conversation a few years ago with some ex-commercial trollers who were commenting on the increasing number of smaller sport boats going offshore. They said it was only a matter of time before accidents happened. They said and its accurate...most sport boats are not built to handle offshore conditions. Think about it, how fast can any 20 to 30 foot sport boat get rid of a cockpit full of water from a breaking wave over the stern? Not fast enough to prevent the next wave in rough conditions from swamping the vessel. Most of you probably watch the "Deadliest Catch" and have seen huge volumes of water washed over the deck during monster storms, but it disappears over board before the next wave hits. Keep this fact in mind when you venture offshore and be aware of your vessels true limitations.
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osprey
Guest
As Profisher so astutely pointed out, the vessels we use may not be as seaworthy as we hope. Unless you have huge scuppers in the cockpit area that water will only drain as fast as the two or four small exit holes will allow. I would guess this to be somewhere in the range of 25-60 gallons per minute. Without a self bailing deck it is even worse. A 1500 gph bilge pump flows 25 gallons per minute as rated from the factory. Under real conditions probably only 20 gpm at best. It doesn't take much of an imagination to see why shipping large amounts of water can overwhelm a smaller sport fishing vessel quickly. When is the last time you made sure your float switch and bilge pump(s)worked correctly? Also very few vessels will go back upright when they roll over. The remain bottom of the hull skyward making safety gear all but impossible to retrieve. Manufactures are not required to make them return to an upright position and they don't test for it. Not blaming the manufactures it is just that way. Designing a vessel to return to an upright position would take the cost of the vessel above and beyond what most of us could bear. I think the best piece of safety gear we have is between our ears. Understanding your boats limitations and keeping all safety related equipment handy and in good repair along with making sound judgements on the water will go a long way in keeping us safe. Hope I don't sound like I am on a soapbox. Believe me I have alot of room for improvement in this department as well. Osprey
walleyes
Crew Member
I don't want to start pointing fingers and putting blame on anybody here but maybe through some discussion some people may learn something..
I just got off the phone with my nephew who was up there during this time. He has been going up to winter harbour for the last 4 years and knows the habits of the lodge in question.. My nephew runs a 26' Weldcraft cuddy a good rough water boat. On said morning it was darn rough,, rough enough that it concerned them. Now,, they saw some of these lodge boats heading out and they just shook there heads as to why these boys in those boats would be going out.. But over the years he has experinced them doing the same,, pushing the limits big time.. Another thing that he found in their practices is the fact they don't buddy up.. Its like each and every boat and guide has is own little spot and heads out to it sometimes 12 miles off shore all by themselves.. I can't help but feel that if this lodge had proper practices in place that this tragedy could of been avoided.. If they had a buddy system in place or if during rough weather they kept all the boats in an area together with a mother boat over watch these people would be alive..
I will just about guarantee you all one thing,, there will be regulations of some sort coming out of this.. This is not like it was a private boat going down this is a public affair.. If nothing else I would hope this lodge reviews its own policies and makes some changes..I want you all to remember something,,water doesn't kill people.. People in water kill themselves !!!
I just got off the phone with my nephew who was up there during this time. He has been going up to winter harbour for the last 4 years and knows the habits of the lodge in question.. My nephew runs a 26' Weldcraft cuddy a good rough water boat. On said morning it was darn rough,, rough enough that it concerned them. Now,, they saw some of these lodge boats heading out and they just shook there heads as to why these boys in those boats would be going out.. But over the years he has experinced them doing the same,, pushing the limits big time.. Another thing that he found in their practices is the fact they don't buddy up.. Its like each and every boat and guide has is own little spot and heads out to it sometimes 12 miles off shore all by themselves.. I can't help but feel that if this lodge had proper practices in place that this tragedy could of been avoided.. If they had a buddy system in place or if during rough weather they kept all the boats in an area together with a mother boat over watch these people would be alive..
I will just about guarantee you all one thing,, there will be regulations of some sort coming out of this.. This is not like it was a private boat going down this is a public affair.. If nothing else I would hope this lodge reviews its own policies and makes some changes..I want you all to remember something,,water doesn't kill people.. People in water kill themselves !!!
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