Missing Boat

[Peahead]

quote:Originally posted by Bear Cove

In reading Jillian's comments again, she makes no reference to commerical operated boats. She states only "small vessels the size of the boat that was lost are allowed to carry up to 12 people and are not required to be certified or inspected by TC"

She did not state that the boat in question needed to be inspected, only that boats that size do not need to be inspected. I am only assuming that if she was asked about the boat in question she would have said it needed to be in compliance with TC rules.

Bear Cove Cottages Sports Fishing Destination
www.bearcovecottages.ca
Port Hardy BC
Canada

Wow you can see how things get all twisted ..... Jillian should know the boat was a guided, small commercial vessel from a fishing lodge and not a pleasure craft. She therefore shouldn't be quoting TC rules for a pleasure craft when stating what rules applied to the boat in this situation.

 

[fishingbc]

quote:Originally posted by Bear Cove

In reading Jillian's comments again, she makes no reference to commerical operated boats. She states only "small vessels the size of the boat that was lost are allowed to carry up to 12 people and are not required to be certified or inspected by TC"

She did not state that the boat in question needed to be inspected, only that boats that size do not need to be inspected. I am only assuming that if she was asked about the boat in question she would have said it needed to be in compliance with TC rules.

Bear Cove Cottages Sports Fishing Destination
www.bearcovecottages.ca
Port Hardy BC
Canada

spoke with TC in Kelowna, not happy with the comments and are hopefully going to make sure that the article gets straightened out. My understanding the boat WAS blue stickered for 2010. Not sure if the guide was. I'm sure that will all be looked at as well as fishing in those conditions as there are restrictions and the implications on insurance coverage from being out there in those conditions. Two other boats I know of where out there in the same area on the same day in 26- and 28 ft boats and there both told me the conditions were un fishable and one of the worst days they had seen out in that area. Both were taking waves over the stern and bow and had several close calls making their way back to port......

 

[Bear Cove]

If the weather was as bad as everyone is saying it was no place for any boat. From what I know on the insurance side of things, there isn't a insurance company out there that would insure a boat to be in that kind of water, let allow an open 19 footer. Will be interesting to see what comes of the TC investigation and what their findings will be.

From what I understand with regards to the keyhole lifejackets is they are the only ones that keep you floatiing face up when you where them incase you are out like a light when you go over. I believe I read that Mustang is coming out with a horse collar type that is going to be TC ceritfied that will float you face up. Wouldn't be surprised to see them be manditory for all guide boats to have and make our guests where them while on our boats. No a bad idea if you ask me, if it is comfortable most will where them. Most likely not going to be cheap but what is the cost of safety?

Bear Cove Cottages Sports Fishing Destination
www.bearcovecottages.ca
Port Hardy BC
Canada

 

[Peahead]

quote:Originally posted by Sushihunter

I knew the Province article would catch your attention. That's why I boldfaced those lines.

This is why I object to the TC rules - even they don't know what they are and are continually giving out misleading info and changing their mind as to what the regs require.

Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250

Its not thee only thing that caught my attention in that Province article Jim, ....look at this quote:

"Kevin Sturgess' sister, Trisha Sturgess, said it might not have taken six days to find the six-metre aluminum fishing boat if....."

I don't mean to stir all this up again for no reason but this still bothers me:
So if the missing guide boat was actually found a couple days earlier than Saturday ( as Nog had written in this thread well before Saturday) then even Kevin's sister seems to not have been informed of any earlier discovery ( or has been asked to stick to the 'story' of a later discovery ?? ).

I am now wondering in Nog was correct otherwise this whole thing about actual date of discvery and manufactured dicovery date seems very odd to me....

 

[Peahead]

Also wouldn't coast guard and SAR want to publish that their search efforts took less than 6 days to find the boat ? Now there are questions arising about why it took so long .to find....You'd think CCG and SAR would want the public/press to know it didn't actually take that long , especially if it actually didn't.

 

[IronNoggin]

My most sincere apologies. My Friend and myself were fed erroneous information when I made the post above. I do not yet know what the motive for that was, but it certainly was not funny in any way. My error was in being a little too quick to believe what I was told, and then I furthered that by posting before I could confirm. For this I humbly apologize, especially to the Families and friends.

I have been at sea every day since and have not heard any further news than they did find the boat, rolled over and well offshore. I would appreciate it if anyone here that has any further news please fill me in. I am still holding faint hope...

Embarrassed as hell,
Matt

 

[osprey]

Thanks Nog,That clears up a lot of confusion. It is an unfortunate thing that you perpetuated an unsubstantiated rumor but it took a lot of guts to set things straight and admit you were wrong. Osprey

 

[Peahead]

Thanks Nog for letting us know.....ditto osprey's comments. Glad its all clear now.

 

[Jimmy]

There is always the questions of what could have been done differently after an accident. In this case I guess we will never know what happened other than these guys died doing what they loved. Hopefully it makes us think twice before we head offshore. I went to school with Kevin and know his sister. My thoughts are with them and their family!

I will think twice before I head offshore.

 

[the fog ducker]

Nog



fd

thefogducker@hotmail.com

 

[Hoghunter]

Lots of stuff we all need to learn from this tragedy. If they had an EPIRB then it would have made a huge difference in finding and possibly rescuing them before they drowned and I emphasize rescue.

If the boat went down fast then it would have to be an automatic activating EPIRB or most likely they would never get to it. If auto activated it would've started transmitting the minute it hit the water. This would've alerted authorities quite a few hours before they were notified by the lodge that evening.

Without life jackets on though it's most likely that none of them last very long at all. Maybe a few hours if they were able to get back to the boat and hang onto the motor or anchor line. But in that water temperature they aren't going to last more than a few hours at best. And in rough seas it's considerably lessened.

So even with an EPIRB they might have been found quicker but most likely still may not have survived. Life jackets certainly would have increased their opportunity for survival as they wouldn't be struggling and burning body heat to stay afloat.

To me this all boils down to us as fishermen making wise and prudent decisions. From everything I've heard about the wind there that day nobody had any business being offshore fishing.

As the skipper of the boat you're always responsible to make the call. Brooks is a nasty area and it gets ugly quick up there.

I truly hope this brings about more caution on all of our part when it comes to going to sea for recreational purposes.

 

[copro]

This is a super sad story to say the least and I want to express my condolences for everyone involved.

I was fishing that day and thought I'd comment on the weather. I am in a 21 foot pilot house (see avatar photo). When I rounded Kains around 7 or 8am I knew I didn't want to fish south and headed north. After getting tired of taking the beating trying to get north we put out the lines just past Lippy. It was very tough to troll into the wind, fishing just two folks in the boat we lost two fish trolling that direction because my buddy couldn't net his own fish and I couldn't get the boat truned around fast enough to help. Not wanting to play that game all day we turned around and started tacking downwind. By the time we filled up on springs we were down to Lawn Pt.

We then decided to start bottom fishing, the wind was too tough to keep two pound pipe jigs down with out back trolling. We back trolled/bottom bounced pipe jigs near Lawn until about 4 PM that day. During this time we never took water over the transom, although the motor well got a splash or two. That said I was watching the waves close the whole time and put the boat in neutral many times to let a nasty looking set go by. Needless to say it was tough fishing, but I won't say it was unfishable. We did several drifts about 1/4 - 1/2 mile away from an anchored Qualicum boat. I must say I was surprised that folks would be anchored out there in those condidtions. When we were done fishing and headed in we passed by the Qualicum boat one more time a bit closer to mark the halibut spot. In fact when I first heard about the missing I boat I reported those coordinats to the RCMP immediately. None the less we headed in about 5 knots and never took a wave over the bow, but the wipers were definetely on.

In hindsight we can all see things that would have led to a better outcome, but it's my guess most all of us have pushed the limits many times, and usually it works out ok. Its those time that it doesn't that makes us all sit back and re-evaluate everything. I'm seeing manditory life vest on my boat from now own. My flares and beacon are finding a new home that doesn't have a hatch door in the way. A little more thought and I think I'll be changeing other things as well. I hope we all can learn from this a bit, to save our loved ones the grief some are suffing now. Again my condolences to all.

Jody



[img=left]http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12747/thumb_xDSC01379.JPG[/img=left]

 

[fishingbc]

quote:Originally posted by copro

This is a super sad story to say the least and I want to express my condolences for everyone involved.

I was fishing that day and thought I'd comment on the weather. I am in a 21 foot pilot house (see avatar photo). When I rounded Kains around 7 or 8am I knew I didn't want to fish south and headed north. After getting tired of taking the beating trying to get north we put out the lines just past Lippy. It was very tough to troll into the wind, fishing just two folks in the boat we lost two fish trolling that direction because my buddy couldn't net his own fish and I couldn't get the boat truned around fast enough to help. Not wanting to play that game all day we turned around and started tacking downwind. By the time we filled up on springs we were down to Lawn Pt.

We then decided to start bottom fishing, the wind was too tough to keep two pound pipe jigs down with out back trolling. We back trolled/bottom bounced pipe jigs near Lawn until about 4 PM that day. During this time we never took water over the transom, although the motor well got a splash or two. That said I was watching the waves close the whole time and put the boat in neutral many times to let a nasty looking set go by. Needless to say it was tough fishing, but I won't say it was unfishable. We did several drifts about 1/4 - 1/2 mile away from an anchored Qualicum boat. I must say I was surprised that folks would be anchored out there in those condidtions. When we were done fishing and headed in we passed by the Qualicum boat one more time a bit closer to mark the halibut spot. In fact when I first heard about the missing I boat I reported those coordinats to the RCMP immediately. None the less we headed in about 5 knots and never took a wave over the bow, but the wipers were definetely on.

In hindsight we can all see things that would have led to a better outcome, but it's my guess most all of us have pushed the limits many times, and usually it works out ok. Its those time that it doesn't that makes us all sit back and re-evaluate everything. I'm seeing manditory life vest on my boat from now own. My flares and beacon are finding a new home that doesn't have a hatch door in the way. A little more thought and I think I'll be changeing other things as well. I hope we all can learn from this a bit, to save our loved ones the grief some are suffing now. Again my condolences to all.

Jody



[img=left]http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12747/thumb_xDSC01379.JPG[/img=left]

Just a quick follow up.....what some people consider fishable may NOT be what others consider fishable.....what some consider safe fishing conditions others may NOT consider them safe...regardless as with other places I have fished at up in the Charlottes, the lodge makes the call (with the help of the coast guard in many cases) on when and where the boats fish....single boat or in teams.....at a major derby I attended one guide decided to ignore this and just so happens the boat blew a steering seal on the single motor, which froze the steering at a 30 degree angle 1/4 mile from a serious rocky shoreline on an incoming tide in 20-25 kt winds, this almost cost the guide and the two participants their lives, but they were saved by being able to maneuver the boat away from the rock cliffs until help arrived....the guide was on the next chopper outta there....not sure what if any policy was in place at Qualicum Rivers but leaving these types of decisions (at lodges) up to the guides seems a little risky. The pressure on some guides to "tub out" and the consideration of gratuities are sometimes over-looked when considering when and where to fish.....anyway, the outcome is tragic for all....

 

[osprey]

reddog303 Posted - 08/10/2010 : 10:05:18
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before we make EPIRBS mandatory on all vessels maybe we should look at how many people have been saved by them?? Lost people I know that had EPIRBS they did not make any differance.Training ,common sense, and using the equipment required that might have been the best aid..

While I agree with the second half of your post Reddog, I think the use of EPIRBS is up for debate. I don't think many if anybody here are talking about making them mandatory on all vessels. But if money is changing hands on a guided trip and they are plying outside waters, It is definitely something to consider. I don't think you can argue that a hydrostatically activated EPIRB would not have improved the odds in this case by some small degree. Looking forward I think EPIRBS have the potential to save lives. If they were required for charters more would be purchased and they price would probably come down some in the future. Osprey

 

[beemer]

IronNoggin. Glad you are on this board. Takes a big man to say when he has made a mistake. It seems we live in a time where everyone wants to make excuses for every situation. Good on ya. Hope to meet you one day.

beemer

 

[Sushihunter]

IronNoggin: Thanks for letting us know what happened. Sorry that you got fed false info in such a personal and tragic event.

I see no reason for you to apologise - you passed on what you thought was good info and it turned out not to be. If anything, I would question the motives of the person who fed you the false info - did they get it the same way you did, or did they make it up on the fly?

Anyway, I'm sure that no one here holds it against you - I certainly don't. We have all lost a little bit here, some more than others.

Glad to have you on the forums.

Jim


Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250

 

[profisher]

With the stability test comes your weight (passenger) capacity, the distance your allowed offshore and maximum winds your allowed to operate in. My 22 Seaport is limited to 20kts. There is room for some flexibility at my discretion. I would think a 19 ft open boat would be more restricted than my 22 cabin boat...it will be interesting to see what their limitations were.

 

[reddog303]

Osprey just being realistic about EPRBS they are an after the fact device and even if they had one and it deployed what is the on scene reaction time? Certainly if they had survival suits on it might then made a differance but we do not have USCG equipment and trained personal.Case in point a good friend of mine is splattered on the south side of brooks pen. because someone decided to send an f -18 fighter to help a fisherman in distress wonder what thev theory behind that was or what was said after that plane crashed.The tug Manson sank less than 30 miles from Comox with an Epirb,both men lost,I don't believe equipping all small vessels with EPIRB'S is the right approach nuff said.

 

[osprey]

There is no question that EPIRBS cut response time. Will they cut it enough in every situation to facilitate a successful rescue? Definitely not, but every situation is different and in search and rescue operations the faster you get on scene, the better chance of a successful outcome. I do respect your opinion though and I also have the utmost respect for the men and women who participate in these SAR operations. Sorry to hear about your friend. Osprey

 

[spring fever]

Speaking from experience the SAR responce time even at night or on a long weekend is 30 min-however that is from the time RCC Victoria calls-on weekdays the response time is very short as the stand-by crew and a\c are just sitting or even better- airborne training with the full crew. Flying time varies depending on where you are-give it 30 minutes-so realistically speaking if the Gods were in your favour and your beacon was heard(plotted) You could hope to have a para rescue beside you in a 1-2 hour window. That is a fact so you have to figure out how to stay aliver for that time. EPIRB won't solve all our problems