Christie ended any hopes with me when she declared that the "Global TV" debate would be best between just her and Dix because they were the only two with a hope of becoming premier. That is some kind of democracy. So anyone considering voting otherwise are pieces of sh@t? With that kind of influence on the media how will there ever be positive change and better ideas brought forward?
green party ,, your thoughts
- Thread starter trophywife
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Pippen
Well-Known Member
Haha......is that SO wrong to speak the truth? So......should the BC First party be there.....the Marijuana party?
If they want a true debate then I don't necessarily have an issue with having 2......one with every Tom, Dick and Harry.....and one where the MAJOR players can square off in a true debate discussing the issues at hand. Not a BS gang-bang where everyone is focussed on the party in power and NOT the critique of "pie in the sky" type promises from those wanting to be in power.
It seriously is a waste of bandwidth and would be ridiculous debate if you invited everybody to the dance.
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
Some on here are just giving in to plain ol' unfounded, fearmongering just like the Republicans do about gun control, environmental protection, investment regulations, taxing the rich and health care reform. They cry that the economy will collapse and we will have have to become card carrrying socialists, then communists, all wearing Birkenstocks, all living in caves, such unfounded foolishness! - LOL!
Do you really think that if the Greens were to win the election they would be able to completely transfrom BC where the economy is virtually shut down to solely protect the environment, and we become a fully socialist state? Don't you think the powerful corporate interest would fight back? Don't you think the average BC citizen would fight against this kind of foolish extremism? C'mom guys you are smarter than this to fall for something that silly!
My whole agrument which many can't seem to understand through their overwhelming fear of change, or so called 'socialist, enviro-freaks" taking over is this:
1) Any goverment regardless of their party principles will become more corrupt, arrogant and less responsive to citizens the longer it is in power. This is why we have elections at least every 2-5 years depending on the type of govt. For this reason alone change can be good over time.
2) We are blessed to live in a country where we are free to have a variety of political parties to choose from. While we may not always like our choices, at least we have a choice. We also have the freedom to influence existing parties or form new ones to our liking. Having multiple political parties also allows for healthy competition and debate which can lead to more balanced decisions and ultimately better overall governance for our increasingly pluralistic society.
3) By voting and working for change in whatever area you care about (mine is fisheries) you signal to 'the powers that be' that they need to pay attention and respond. Not working for change and/or just voting for the same political party will just continue the same old status quo - which for me is not acceptable, let alone sustainable.
4) I am NOT interested, nor was it my intention to argue the pros and cons of various political parties or economic theories. This can be as fruitless as arguing what make of truck is best.
5) What I am interested in is to get people to think rationally (not fearfully), about what they are voting for; be it for the status quo, or for change. When you do vote do so keeping in mind what is important to you now and for future generations to come. If change is what you want then vote and work for it.
Do you really think that if the Greens were to win the election they would be able to completely transfrom BC where the economy is virtually shut down to solely protect the environment, and we become a fully socialist state? Don't you think the powerful corporate interest would fight back? Don't you think the average BC citizen would fight against this kind of foolish extremism? C'mom guys you are smarter than this to fall for something that silly!
My whole agrument which many can't seem to understand through their overwhelming fear of change, or so called 'socialist, enviro-freaks" taking over is this:
1) Any goverment regardless of their party principles will become more corrupt, arrogant and less responsive to citizens the longer it is in power. This is why we have elections at least every 2-5 years depending on the type of govt. For this reason alone change can be good over time.
2) We are blessed to live in a country where we are free to have a variety of political parties to choose from. While we may not always like our choices, at least we have a choice. We also have the freedom to influence existing parties or form new ones to our liking. Having multiple political parties also allows for healthy competition and debate which can lead to more balanced decisions and ultimately better overall governance for our increasingly pluralistic society.
3) By voting and working for change in whatever area you care about (mine is fisheries) you signal to 'the powers that be' that they need to pay attention and respond. Not working for change and/or just voting for the same political party will just continue the same old status quo - which for me is not acceptable, let alone sustainable.
4) I am NOT interested, nor was it my intention to argue the pros and cons of various political parties or economic theories. This can be as fruitless as arguing what make of truck is best.
5) What I am interested in is to get people to think rationally (not fearfully), about what they are voting for; be it for the status quo, or for change. When you do vote do so keeping in mind what is important to you now and for future generations to come. If change is what you want then vote and work for it.
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Pippen
Well-Known Member
How do you mean "square my vote"???
You will take note that I said NO party in this province IS perfect or ever will be perfect. As an example of such thinking.....I can agree with Suzuki on a few things.....but for the most part I can't stand the guy and how he positions MANY (not all) issues.
Looking at the bigger picture.....I see where the benefits are for this province and the Dipsy's are NOT it.
Pippen
Well-Known Member
Haha.......and some on here just don't see the bigger picture!
You can call it fearmongering......you can call it whatever you want......but the fact of the matter is that you are ALSO spreading opinions to sway people that the Libs are evil.
If you come full circle to the original link/post...........it is a bunch of sh*t and if people can't see the forest for the trees then good enough. Greens may have their well intentions and lord knows I think their fishing mandate is outstanding.....but......I could create the PippParty and say the same thing. Fact is......I am NOT going to get in power.....and my pie in the sky statements do nothing more than make people talk about something that I know full well I can't do.
Pippen
Well-Known Member
I am not saying that BC will slip into massive financial ruins.......I am just saying that investment in our Province WILL decrease and if you don't believe me....talk to business leaders. The thing that I think you are missing is it will start at a VERY high level.....and the trickle down effect is going to increase exponentially.
WIW.....let me ask you this......do you not think we are already taxed heavily enough in this Province? Do you see the benfit in the HST? Do you want to pay more taxes?
It is the unregulated, profit first, laissez-faire financial system in U.S. that brought about the economic meltdown in 2008 that led the millions of people losing their homes and jobs all over the world (with very little impact on the ultra wealthy 1%, who where to blame in the first place - but I digress.[/Quote}
Yes........that triggered a HUGE GLOBAL meltdown and the effects were very far reaching. So in saying that......don't sh*t on the Libs for what has happened with respect to the economy in this province because like it or not.....we weathered the global crisis very well.
My whole agrument which many can't seem to understand through their overwhelming fear of so called 'socialist, enviro-freaks" taking over is this:
Yes and no. I agree the Libs do need a slap on many issues......but I don't think giving power to the Dip's is the way to go about it. Read their financal plan that was released on Thursday and then tell me where you stand.
We are blessed......and as an "import" from the prairies and a BC resident for the past 18 years I truly feel blessed to live in arguably one of the best places in the world.
Having multiple parties........DOES lead to compromises....you hit the nail on the head. I would ask you to look at what compromises you will make if you vote Lib, NDP, Green etc. Weight out the pro's and con's.......and for god's sakes people.....RESEARCH them yourself and don't listen to the diatribe garbage that Global News feeds you or that twat Baldry.
WIW......I agree with you wholeheartedly in the fact we have our constitutional right to vote as we see fit and as stated I 100% respect your stance/opinions. For me personally I get's my butt that people don't actually do their own research.....they just listen to the media and who is being touted; one only has to look to the airtime that VanderScam got. Ask the bulk of BC residents about the REAL true pro's and con's of the HST and I bet you less than 33% can provide an informed opinion.
We live in an age where you and I can sit here and debate this back and forth.....through digital technology and the internet.....yet people will not do something as simple as "Google".
Working for change or VOTING for change???? I am all for "working for change" with the Gov't we have.....say what you want about it never happening but you never know until you truly work for it. Bottom line........where you are saying your passion and your vote is going is for the betterment of fisheries. I applaud that wholeheartedly..........however in saying that let's not forget where your fisheries management largely is based; at the Federal level. Provincially the gov't will never take control of our fisheries......DFO is NOT going away like it or not.
WIW......if we are sportsfisherpeople could TRULY create a united front that was heard.....I would stand there right next to you fighting for change. Problem is that we all sit and ***** on the internet and nothing ever really starts from the grassroots level and makes a difference. As an example, the Halibut protest last year in Victoria. It had maybe 1 or 2 days of media coverage......and NEVER to be heard of again.
Exactly......brilliant statement to which I agree with you 150%. The only thing I would emphasise in that is to ensure people ARE AWARE, INFORMED and EDUCATED in what they are voting for. It pains me the influence that the media has on people in this province....AND beyond. Here is an example....the influence that an arse like Glen Beck AND FOX News has on the "right" in the USA is beyond comprehension. The plebes listen to sources like that and allow those sources to form their political opinion. When the big Healthcare Reform debate was going on in the US do you know that FOX News did a piece on Canadian Healthcare stating you had to win a lottery to see a doctor? This was twisted from the situation in one tiny little town in southern Ontario where the physician couldn't see anymore patients period.....he'd take on a couple per year and they were drawn to see who would get in. Those who weren't a patient of his had to drive less than 10 minutes to the next town to see a doctor; and the voting public in the USA saw that as an example of what would happen if they went through healthcare reform.Sorry about the tangent.....just wanted to put an illustration to my point.
Let me just say on a side note; I love that we live in a country where we can debate topics like this and actually have the freedom TO debate topics like this. I applaud you guys and despite differing opinions we are all passionate about our beliefs and nobody can take away that freedom or right.
Englishman
Well-Known Member
For me the defining issue on who to vote for in this election is the Northern Gateway pipeline. The stance of the various parties on this one will dictate my vote. Make no mistake, if this pipeline goes through, the environmental impact on our watersheds, rivers, and coast, which most on this thread say they love, will be so massive as to completely transform BC as we know it. The risks are all BC's and the profits and benefits to our economy nearly zero. All the profits go to Alberta and foreign corps and all the benefits go to China. This is NOT about fueling our truck and boats. This is about sacrificing the human, cultural and wildlife resources of the BC Interior and the coast for the benefit of CHINA.
Think about that when you vote.....
Think about that when you vote.....
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trophywife
Crew Member
what i meant by radical is that there is no way in hell we are going to use a sail boat and a solar panel or a bicycle... if tho,, like i have grown up to do, is make greener choices, yes i still burn fuel but do it on a way more conscious level... light weight boat, fuel eco motor, 96% effficient boiler in my home,, LED bulbs,recycled roof materials,etc, all of this has come at a greater cost but in the long run is considered greener choices.. not the granola eatin hippy freaks some portray the green party to be...
like all parties the extreme is what they shout,, then they seem to settle on half efforts, which come off as campaign lies... shoot for the stars but hit the moon.
like all parties the extreme is what they shout,, then they seem to settle on half efforts, which come off as campaign lies... shoot for the stars but hit the moon.
Seafever
Well-Known Member
Green Party, Liberals, NDP.......doesn't matter...they are all legally allowed to lie and they are not legally required to honor ANY campaign promise. So they can say anything they want to get elected....and they do. The NDP, if they win, won't be in there too long before the dung hits the fan. Ditto for Greens or anybody else. We need an overhaul of the system so that parties CAN be held accountable for what they promise pre-election. Until that happens...it's more of the same....I have too much self -respect to go out and vote like a robot this year, mindlessly putting my John Henry on a piece of paper in the hope that something will change.
triplenickel
Well-Known Member
Yup canada is a resource based economy and it doesn't matter who wants to do what it's always bitched about by someone, usually the biggest moaners are the ones sucking hardest on the government teat. Can't log, can't commercial fish, can't mine, can't develop the energy industry etc...For you guys wanking on about where the jobs are, times have changed the action isn't on the Island anymore, look to the NE part of the province, more jobs than people.
GLG
Well-Known Member
Hewers of wood and drawers of water....... Yup that's what some aspire to.
Matter of fact, that is what this country is falling back to.
We use to be first in the world with some of our high tec.
Till it was sent off shore by the folks that knew the cost of everything but the value of nothing.
We even have folks trying to tell us not to seek education and be happy with a high school diploma.
What's next .... perhaps your daughters should aspire to be house bound?
We can do better... matter of fact the first commercial quantum computer was build here in BC.
As someone posted "aim for the stars......." or perhaps just a job as a ditch digger as some suggest.
All I can say is back when, in the sixty's someone said aim for the moon and we did it.
Where do you think those Avro Arrow engineers went after our government pulled the plug.
Currently our "dear leader" is leading us down a road to the past, not the future.
Following him and his kind is the path to low wages and eternal debt.
All I can say is it looks like the polls, Canada wide, are pointing to hope for this nation.
I don't buy into this crap the petrol-governments selling no mater how many TV commercials they air.
It may fool some of the dullards but I only hope that Canadians are too smart for that.
Time will tell......
Matter of fact, that is what this country is falling back to.
We use to be first in the world with some of our high tec.
Till it was sent off shore by the folks that knew the cost of everything but the value of nothing.
We even have folks trying to tell us not to seek education and be happy with a high school diploma.
What's next .... perhaps your daughters should aspire to be house bound?
We can do better... matter of fact the first commercial quantum computer was build here in BC.
As someone posted "aim for the stars......." or perhaps just a job as a ditch digger as some suggest.
All I can say is back when, in the sixty's someone said aim for the moon and we did it.
Where do you think those Avro Arrow engineers went after our government pulled the plug.
Currently our "dear leader" is leading us down a road to the past, not the future.
Following him and his kind is the path to low wages and eternal debt.
All I can say is it looks like the polls, Canada wide, are pointing to hope for this nation.
I don't buy into this crap the petrol-governments selling no mater how many TV commercials they air.
It may fool some of the dullards but I only hope that Canadians are too smart for that.
Time will tell......
Englishman
Well-Known Member
Pippen,
There are two types of people in this world. Those who believe the environment is #1 and those who believe the economy is #1.
You clearly are in the latter group.
IMHO you and those like you are wrong. If the environment is destroyed, everything goes down! Human health is directly connected to air , food and water quality. We have a huge dependency on a functioning environment for our continued existence. Just look at the situation with respect to bees and what happens to our food supply if things get worse with their colonies disappearing across the world!
It is people you brand as" hippy/socialists" in the past who fought for health and safety rules in the workplace, who forced the powers that be to mitigate mine tailing and air pollution and ensured we have proper food labeling. It is people who you consider radicals who have made the world a healthier and safer place.
None of you "economy is #1" disciples would have done that as it "costs money". The thing you advocates cannot understand is there is only one earth, it is not disposable, and the richest man in the cemetery is still dead!
People like Suzuki, who you also denigrate, have educated and woken people up to the fact that placing "the economy" on a pedestal above all things will eventually lead to disaster. I have nothing but respect for him, as have thousands of other Canadians, since he came very high in the Greatest Canadian poll done a while back.
The Liberals would sell anything, if it made a buck. Christy has said so. Just like Faust in the famous play they will sell the soul of BC, our rivers,lakes and coast, to the highest bidder (aka Northern Gateway). They cannot understand we live on a finite planet and will do anything, including robbing our children and grandchildren and leaving them will huge environmental bills to pay, in order to have "$$ now".
Sadly human lifetimes are too short and if they win they can never be held to account for what they might do, since the consequences come back decades later; just like the devil in the Faust play, he will always collect his due for the soul of BC!
bigbruce
Crew Member
You are so wrong, Englishman. This is not an "either/or" situation. There is very clearly a third category, and it is probably the most important in my view. That is the group of people who understand the need to balance the economy and the environment - those who don't place either in the number 1 position but view them as having equal importance.
triplenickel
Well-Known Member
Who ride around in a giant bus with their faces painted on the side, shouldn't he be in a smart car?
Aces
Well-Known Member
You put Suzuki on a pedestal and yet he was busted in the Haida Gwaii a few years ago for fishing on a river in a closed area. That makes him a hypocrite in my books
GLG
Well-Known Member
Nope ..... the environment has to come first before the economy...
You can't eat money... you can't drink oil.
Healthy food to eat is more important then cheap food.
Clean air is more important then smog.
Clean water is more important then polluted water.
The balance you seek is not a 50/50 thing.
What good is it if you have lot's of money if your health is in jeopardy?
Cuba Libre
Well-Known Member
Yup-- what he said....
Go to China and see what out of control industry looks like...ohhh sorry the air is so dirty you can't see anything, not even across the city. we need some balance...its has been all big business and bankers since the beginning. I think a short 4 years with a different approach would be a good thing. It would definetly make the other parties more sensitive to the environment when they ask for your future votes.
bigbruce
Crew Member
finaddict
Well-Known Member
And what energy was used to make the bike and the boat? I love the hypocracy of the enviro's. No need for balance between economy and environment? Then sacrifice EVERYTHING you own, sharpen your pointy stick with a sharp rock, go kill your own food and make your own clothes from skins and tree bark , because ANYTHING else is a compromise. Microcosm thinkers will never be able to see anything past their own noses.
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