Columbians "Myth or Fact" & "POST"
- Thread starter Charlie
- Start date
Charlie
Well-Known Member
I downloaded this information from POST. It is the recovered "tags" from the Strait of Juan de Fuca. I think it is kind of interesting!
Out of the 508 listed, recovered Chinook reported in the Juan de Fuca, 216 were "tagged" Canadian Chinook, which is 42.52% of the Total (Who says Canada doesn't tag fish?) This is far from the 95% of all "tagged" fish are from the U.S. Kind of makes me wonder??
29 Tagged Chinook, caught in Juan de Fuca were released from the Columbia Basin - (Who says the Columbians are a "Myth" & don't come in the Strait?) I was really surprised to see how many were from the Yakima River!
As far as, is it a "Columbian" or a "Fraser"? Your guess is as good as mine. What I do, is take into consideration where I caught it, time of day, physical structure, size, and color of meat? Most ARE </u> Frazer, but I do believe if you catch a 40 pound plus spring that is the shape of a football (short, which no 40 lb fish is really short, but does have the look and shape of a "football"), fat, and dark red; there is a very good chance that fish is a Columbian! Does this mean all 40/lb fish are Columbian...NO! I believe most of the "larger" fish on the south end of VI, are indeed Frazer fish, especially if they are longer with lighter colored meat.
Is all of this true? Don't ask me, it is just what I have found and I am open to learn more.
Out of the 508 listed, recovered Chinook reported in the Juan de Fuca, 216 were "tagged" Canadian Chinook, which is 42.52% of the Total (Who says Canada doesn't tag fish?) This is far from the 95% of all "tagged" fish are from the U.S. Kind of makes me wonder??
29 Tagged Chinook, caught in Juan de Fuca were released from the Columbia Basin - (Who says the Columbians are a "Myth" & don't come in the Strait?) I was really surprised to see how many were from the Yakima River!
As far as, is it a "Columbian" or a "Fraser"? Your guess is as good as mine. What I do, is take into consideration where I caught it, time of day, physical structure, size, and color of meat? Most ARE </u> Frazer, but I do believe if you catch a 40 pound plus spring that is the shape of a football (short, which no 40 lb fish is really short, but does have the look and shape of a "football"), fat, and dark red; there is a very good chance that fish is a Columbian! Does this mean all 40/lb fish are Columbian...NO! I believe most of the "larger" fish on the south end of VI, are indeed Frazer fish, especially if they are longer with lighter colored meat.
Is all of this true? Don't ask me, it is just what I have found and I am open to learn more.
Charter Tofino
Well-Known Member
29 is a tiny number. You said the run comes through the straight. If 100-300,000 fish were travelling the shoreline in the straight there would be alot more than 29 so it kind of proves the theory wrong. Either way that info is a pretty interesting read!
Charlie
Well-Known Member
No... I didn't say the entire run comes through the Strait, but there are "Columbians" that come in through the Strait. There are also Columbian fish found in Howe, along with Frasers; but, that doesn't mean the entire run goes through Howe.
The "Off Shore" is full of Columbia bound fish, as well as Frazer, but a lot of the fish travel in closer to shore, even in the QCI.
Charter Tofino
Well-Known Member
You said
"The Columbians (which are not a myth) migrate along the British Columbian shore exactly the same way every year"
You also posted their route which goes up and into the straight giving the idea that the entire run goes in the straight. I thought thats what the whole discussion was over?
"The Columbians (which are not a myth) migrate along the British Columbian shore exactly the same way every year"
You also posted their route which goes up and into the straight giving the idea that the entire run goes in the straight. I thought thats what the whole discussion was over?
Charlie
Well-Known Member
I said, refering to "The Columbians of Juan de Fuca</u>"
That does not mean to state the entire run comes through the Strait, nor that the entire Columbian run is close to shore; rather, there are Columbia fish that come in the Strait! The larger tend to be closer to shore! But, I have caught many a 30 lb Columbian bound fish off shore!
I posted the route the Columbians, that come into the Strait follow, not the route every fish from the Columbia Basin follows! And salmon do tend to travel the same route year after year!
1) Charlie, look at the recovery date - the few that were recorded as Columbians came in September/October so this list does not have any proof that the so called "Columbian run" in the JDF in April/May/June consists of actually Columbia R. bound fish. Genetical tests have sufficiently proven over the last 20 years or so that this is actually the ET Fraser run. A number of Fraser strains look shortnosed and stubby just like some Columbians - therefore the misnomer in the first place. Ask anyone with some current knowledge on salmon science - send an PM to "Governor" for instance here on the forum - he will tell you and outfit you with all the material you want to see.
2) Some of the recorded fish on your list came from Neah Bay - as I said there is a good chance that at Renfrew and Neah Bay you would intercept a number of true Columbians - therefore with looking at the JDF in general you will not get an conclusive answer. One would need a detailed recovery list for mid-to-east JDF - excluding the west entrance.
2) Some of the recorded fish on your list came from Neah Bay - as I said there is a good chance that at Renfrew and Neah Bay you would intercept a number of true Columbians - therefore with looking at the JDF in general you will not get an conclusive answer. One would need a detailed recovery list for mid-to-east JDF - excluding the west entrance.
Charlie
Well-Known Member
First, what happened to your:
Of course, I looked at the recovery date… Are you that naive?
Now you are talking about the "Governor"? What happened to your, "up-to-speed marine biologists"?
Secondly, who the h*ll is the "Governor"? Someone that does not want to post his real name… Oh, I am sorry he is God? NOT!
Everything I post is under my real name and with my real email and I am open of any and all discussion?
Third, Yep, I have caught them!
Forth, you get the stats, I am very open to any information! It seems very hard to find! Why, I don't know!
Fifth, excuse me… I like "facts"! In addition, if someone wants to post "facts" and not "bullsh*t", I am all ears!
Charter Tofino
Well-Known Member
Charlie you were posting the opinions of you and DC reid in your original posts but are calling him on posting bs not facts? Bit confused
Here is your original post. You claim to know them down to the roll the rivers run prefers. None of this seems like fact. Either way others are right is a pretty pointless arguement even though some interesting info on it.
"If it was short, stubby, and muscular = Columbian
If it was long, slender, and muscular = Frazer (I believe they have started clipping some? I know they clip sockeye.)
The Frazer's are a lot longer than the Columbian's!
The Columbians of Juan de Fuca are usually the biggest, averaging 40 pounds, and with the occasional fish over 60. They actually start running the end of March, but start coming in very strong the month of May. June and the beginning of July is the best time; however, these fish do run through the end of August.
They swim down the WCVI, in from the Pacific on the Canadian side of Juan de Fuca Strait then turn at the San Juan’s, crossing Hein Bank and exit the Washington State side for a run down to the Columbia River. Why? The Department of Fisheries and Oceans says it's anyone's guess, and as far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter. What matters is catching them.
The Columbians (which are not a myth) migrate along the British Columbian shore exactly the same way every year. These fish are huge and lumbering and use the tides to move from hole to hole, usually along the 80 foot contour line. They like the nooks and crannies that form back eddies within 50 yards of shore and this is where they rest over night. The crack of dawn (5:00 am) is the best, but there are plenty of these fish taken later and a surprising number are taken at 9:00 am tide changes and later in the afternoon, particularly high tides an hour before dinner. And, are surprisingly shallow. At dawn, they will be 20 feet deep and as the sun rises they descend, but will seldom be found deeper than 50 feet. They are also a solitary fish. They prefer a slow, slow action on the bait.
The Columbians run down the entire WCVI and are usually close to shore, not off shore. The Frazer's are usually caught farther off shore."
Here is your original post. You claim to know them down to the roll the rivers run prefers. None of this seems like fact. Either way others are right is a pretty pointless arguement even though some interesting info on it.
"If it was short, stubby, and muscular = Columbian
If it was long, slender, and muscular = Frazer (I believe they have started clipping some? I know they clip sockeye.)
The Frazer's are a lot longer than the Columbian's!
The Columbians of Juan de Fuca are usually the biggest, averaging 40 pounds, and with the occasional fish over 60. They actually start running the end of March, but start coming in very strong the month of May. June and the beginning of July is the best time; however, these fish do run through the end of August.
They swim down the WCVI, in from the Pacific on the Canadian side of Juan de Fuca Strait then turn at the San Juan’s, crossing Hein Bank and exit the Washington State side for a run down to the Columbia River. Why? The Department of Fisheries and Oceans says it's anyone's guess, and as far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter. What matters is catching them.
The Columbians (which are not a myth) migrate along the British Columbian shore exactly the same way every year. These fish are huge and lumbering and use the tides to move from hole to hole, usually along the 80 foot contour line. They like the nooks and crannies that form back eddies within 50 yards of shore and this is where they rest over night. The crack of dawn (5:00 am) is the best, but there are plenty of these fish taken later and a surprising number are taken at 9:00 am tide changes and later in the afternoon, particularly high tides an hour before dinner. And, are surprisingly shallow. At dawn, they will be 20 feet deep and as the sun rises they descend, but will seldom be found deeper than 50 feet. They are also a solitary fish. They prefer a slow, slow action on the bait.
The Columbians run down the entire WCVI and are usually close to shore, not off shore. The Frazer's are usually caught farther off shore."
Charlie
Well-Known Member
DC Reid has nothing to do with this!
If anyone wants to "post" facts, I am really interested! I really don't know if what I see is real or not? But, what I don't want to hear... "well, so and so said this is true"? If someone posts, "this is what so and so said", I don't want to hear it!
If someone can "post" here are the "facts", I would love it! Especially, if they can back it up with the references!
Obviously, you can't!
Sorry that I can't drag an accredited marine biologist on a stat holiday for you personally onto this forum! Sorry that I also don't carry a bunch of fish stats and modern science books with me all the time to satisfy you! Furthermore I am so sorry that some valued and very educated and involved members of this forum don't use their real first or last name as their handle! Mea culpa!
If I come across some stats or official reports I may post them but with your attitude I may just leave it and let you further believe in a myth from the past. I couldn't care less what you believe... Most people here know what the state of the science is and I tried to tell you that so you don't have to run around ill-educated anymore - but it's everyone's own choice what to do with information I guess... Maybe you should just get of your high horse thinking every single fish in this world has be American...
If I come across some stats or official reports I may post them but with your attitude I may just leave it and let you further believe in a myth from the past. I couldn't care less what you believe... Most people here know what the state of the science is and I tried to tell you that so you don't have to run around ill-educated anymore - but it's everyone's own choice what to do with information I guess... Maybe you should just get of your high horse thinking every single fish in this world has be American...
Charlie
Well-Known Member
I like the "ill-educated" comment! Who is the " ill-educated" one?
Mea culpa is a Latin phrase that translates into English as "my fault", or "my own fault". To emphasize the message, the adjective "maxima" may be inserted, resulting in "mea maxima culpa," which would translate as "my most [grievous] fault."
All I ask for is "FACTS", not second hand information which just results into "he said... she said"! I am okay if you don't know what you are talking about! [:0]
Hmmm... kind of an interesting comment...giving me all that second hand information? Since, I have all ready stated, most of the "springs" in th Strait are "Canadian"! And, I am open to any "facts", just don't give me your "Mea culpa!
Oh forgot, approximately a little less than 6% of the Chinook in the Strait of Juan de Fuca are Columbians?? And, as I stated over 42% are Canadian! Yea, I quess YOU would considered that, "every single fish in this world has be American" [}
][}][}]Charter Tofino
Well-Known Member
Why do i post without valid facts? Why do you post your info that i quoted four posts earlier. Ie if its short/stubby its columbian, average weight is 40lbs, they hug the shore not offshore, their route back goes through jdf ect. Then you freak out when people question these claims that are not fact and tell them not to post without hard evidence. The only evidence so far you posted proved that very few columbia fish actually come through.
On another note how do you find that POST? interesting info
On another note how do you find that POST? interesting info
Island Fish Lifter
Well-Known Member
I wonder if any of those fish taste like garlic? Sorry Charlie, couldnt resist...[]
]
Charlie
Well-Known Member
I have stated... as I have caught them. That pretty much makes it "fact", at least in my eyes! As far, as the route, I guess that is my opionion!
I don't "freak out" at all. I have posted facts, be it from "POST" or my own experience!
Here is the link: http://www.postcoml.org/
You have to go into the "Database", and then play around with it until you get the information you want!
Charlie
Well-Known Member
quote:Originally posted by Island Fish Lifter
I wonder if any of those fish taste like garlic? Sorry Charlie, couldnt resist...[
, you're going to love this... Never caught a "Columbian" using garlic scent! As far as that goes... never caught anything over 33 pounds using any kind of scent! I knew you would love that!
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