Inside Waters Survival

Bait&Sea

Bait&Sea

Active Member
I have a well maintained year 2000 18' Fiberglass with kicker that I use regularily around Vancouver/HoweSound (winter fishing included) and run accross to the Hump/Thrasher in the spring on good weather days. I have been reading about cold water survival to prepare myself and am aware that our local waters drop down to 7c at times which is a very dangerous place to be.

I was going to pick up immersion suits with the thought that we would don them in the event things were getting uncomfortable weather/conditions wise. But I dont really think it would be realistic to operate the boat wearing that type of suit. I think striking an object while cruising is just as likely if not more likely as getting caught in bad weather/conditions. Now I am thinking of anti exposure (floater) suits instead, as we could wear them more of the time but I am concerned about the level of protection they would offer in the event we did end up in the water.

I am currently studying the ROC(M) course and am installing DSC VHF with one of the best 8' antennae I could find. As I study the ROCM I am thinking if operated correctly the VHF will allow me to give CG and other vessels a "heads up" in the event I am in a very bad scenario, followed by DSC Distress call and Mayday if we are going in the water hopefully reducing assistance time to make the floater suits suffice.

I also am putting together a ditch bag with my handheld VHF in it, and monitor weather very regularily when out.

So many scenarios possible its hard to know what safety gear would be best.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Chris
 
You're on the right track Chris. I definitely think a handheld vhf is a huge safety item, especially in an area with regular marine traffic. I don't think it's practical to go out boating wearing an immersion suit. The ditch bag idea is a good one but if you boat alone then I would keep the vhf attached to your body, maybe inside a pocket on your life jacket along with a strobe or waterproof light.

In a boat your size is critical to not only check the weather but have an understanding of what it's telling you. Before you leave I would check the locals on weather.gc.ca to see what's actually happening as well as what's predicted.

Dropping pressure - not good
Wind opposing current - not good
Howe sound outflow - not good
 
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Thanks for your input, and I agree on the importance of knowing what actual conditions are like and the effect of tides/winds in a certain area. Especially one like we encounter of Vancouver with huge volumes of water coming from different directions ie Burrard Inlet, Howe Sound.
 
Bait&Sea said:
I have a well maintained year 2000 18' Fiberglass with kicker that I use regularily around Vancouver/HoweSound (winter fishing included) and run accross to the Hump/Thrasher in the spring on good weather days. I have been reading about cold water survival to prepare myself and am aware that our local waters drop down to 7c at times which is a very dangerous place to be.

I was going to pick up immersion suits with the thought that we would don them in the event things were getting uncomfortable weather/conditions wise. But I dont really think it would be realistic to operate the boat wearing that type of suit. I think striking an object while cruising is just as likely if not more likely as getting caught in bad weather/conditions. Now I am thinking of anti exposure (floater) suits instead, as we could wear them more of the time but I am concerned about the level of protection they would offer in the event we did end up in the water.

I am currently studying the ROC(M) course and am installing DSC VHF with one of the best 8' antennae I could find. As I study the ROCM I am thinking if operated correctly the VHF will allow me to give CG and other vessels a "heads up" in the event I am in a very bad scenario, followed by DSC Distress call and Mayday if we are going in the water hopefully reducing assistance time to make the floater suits suffice.

I also am putting together a ditch bag with my handheld VHF in it, and monitor weather very regularily when out.

So many scenarios possible its hard to know what safety gear would be best.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Chris
Click to expand...

I would recommend you take both levels 1 (boating- beginner) and 2 (seamanship) of a power squadron course if you can its worth it. The silly online cheater test thing just gets you by.... Its way more in depth and covers all the wind, tides etc weather. Totally recommend it. They usually run fall and spring and are few months long each one night a week..

On boat I wear a mustang integrity full suit in winter/late fall, and have a fully DSC handheld as back up registered with MMSI#. I have one for boat and one that is registered to me personally. I took ROC(M) as well totally worth it.
 
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if you are serious about having mobility and surviving a open water mishap , get a kitesurfer wetsuit and a waterproof vhf attached with a lanyard. If you have the money get a personal EPIRB. Many of the "safety systems" that people have been convinced will work , for the most part will aid in your body recovery and little else.
DSC is a bad joke that will never save your life. Most "survival suits" are poorly fitting and they are designed to be dry suits. Get wet in them and you only are hastening your own death.
The reality is you should not be out in a 18 foot fibreglass boat when it is truly crappy out there , regardless of your experience. When shIIt happens on the water it happens fast and you are on your own , to think that someone is going to save you is a fools game.

beemer
 
I would recommend that you get a personal locator beacon (PLB - the smaller version of an EPIRB). PLB's are relatively inexpensive and can be purchased for around $250 US. PLB's and EPIRB operate the same way and transmit a distress and your position accurately. Rescue times with a PLB will likely be <1 hour for most locations in the area you discuss and will likely not exceed a couple of hours. A VHF alone can be very helpful but without accurate position location it can still be very difficult to find you especially on a foggy day. This past summer, there was a boat fire on a very foggy day in the Strait of Juan De Fuca. The boat in question was in between Neah Bay and Sekiu and the guy wound up in the water clinging to a partially inflated raft. He did have a VHF and some flares. I listened to his exchanges with the coast guard and while they had him send off a flare or two, they were completely useless in the very thick fog that day. Visibility was extremely low and was maybe 50'. They eventually found him by locating on his VHF signal but he spent many extra minutes in the water that could have been avoided with a PLB.

Rather than a survival suit, you might consider a Mustang float coat and float bibs. Those are heavily insulated but still provide enough mobility to allow you to operate the boat and fish. The only real problem with them is that they are too warm for many days in summer. Survival times in our local waters if you're in both a float coat and the matching bibs and have the cuff's tight enough to reduce water ingress/egress will be at least 4hours (probably longer according to the charts on the Mustang web site). With a PLB, it's unlikely you'll spend that much time in the water anyplace along our coast.

Of course, the best thing is to keep inside the boat with the boat upright.
 
do your Svop or power squadron course as well
med-3 will also give you a good insight
keep a log and tell people where your going and a eta of return

always do a boat check to see if fuel and engine are in good order
most breakdowns are lack of fuel
and keep a roll of tools or a spare fuel/oil-- filter drive belts fan belts

but best tip stay in the boat or on top ///
1-10-1 tip
1 min to get your breath
10 mins usable time
1 hr before you go hypothermic
 
I sure appreciate all the input, I like the EPIRB/PLB idea in addition to some form of cold water protection...
 
beemer said:
if you are serious about having mobility and surviving a open water mishap , get a kitesurfer wetsuit and a waterproof vhf attached with a lanyard. If you have the money get a personal EPIRB. Many of the "safety systems" that people have been convinced will work , for the most part will aid in your body recovery and little else.
DSC is a bad joke that will never save your life. Most "survival suits" are poorly fitting and they are designed to be dry suits. Get wet in them and you only are hastening your own death.
The reality is you should not be out in a 18 foot fibreglass boat when it is truly crappy out there , regardless of your experience. When shIIt happens on the water it happens fast and you are on your own , to think that someone is going to save you is a fools game.

beemer
Click to expand...

Please explain? "DSC is a bad joke that will never save your life"
 
The reality is you should not be out in a 18 foot fibreglass boat when it is truly crappy out there , regardless of your experience. When shIIt happens on the water it happens fast and you are on your own , to think that someone is going to save you is a fools game.
Click to expand...

Best advice yet...
 
IMO on "inside waters" you want to make every attempt at having someone save you. So yes you can say that thinking someone will save you is a fools game, but not really because it's your best shot.

There is almost always marine traffic inside the gulf so being able to get your message out and having it heard is extremely important. Cold water survival around here is a fools game.
 
Having heard many different distress calls, it always amazes me how unclear the information is. Even when you'd think its dead simple what the situation is I find it always becomes a guessing game with at least some of the information.

Very important to know where you are and of course how to use your radio.
 
SpringVelocity said:
Please explain? "DSC is a bad joke that will never save your life"
Click to expand...

I would ask anyone who believes that this system will work is this "what happens when you push that button? Do you know and understand the menu that will appear? Have you tested your system? (you can't it is illegal) . Is your GPS data and MMSI number correct? my experience it that the large number of false MMSI calls have led to a long process of trying to decipher if the call is genuine or not by the Coast Guard. You are MUCH better off trying to make a VHF call that the false sense of security that DSC/MMSI has given boaters.

beemer
 
beemer said:
I would ask anyone who believes that this system will work is this "what happens when you push that button? Do you know and understand the menu that will appear? Have you tested your system? (you can't it is illegal) . Is your GPS data and MMSI number correct? my experience it that the large number of false MMSI calls have led to a long process of trying to decipher if the call is genuine or not by the Coast Guard. You are MUCH better off trying to make a VHF call that the false sense of security that DSC/MMSI has given boaters.

beemer
Click to expand...

In my case - yes, no, yes and yes are the answers to the questions above starting with "Do you know...". Also, I would point out that in some of the newer radios, the GPS is being integrated in so that one doesn't have to wire it to a chartplotter for it to have position information available. You still have to register to get an MMSI number and input it into the radio (and at least in the US provide biannual confirmation that you are still attached to that MMSI number). However, I think it will continue to get better and better over time. But nonetheless, I don't get any false sense of security from having a DSC radio with a proper MMSI #, it's just one of many tools that can assist in my survival should I need it. One advantage of a properly setup DSC radio is that it's very easy to train anyone on your boat to issue a distress call (which is something I do for all guests on the boat as part of my "pre-flight" prior to leaving the dock).
 
This info on DSC being useless is news to me..... While the hell do we have DSC then? Why do we even have MMSI numbers loaded? I have a registered number and its in the database..I am going to ask my friend who is station commander of Sooke this question...I am sure he responds to calls a lot...

The reason I got it is chances are as I boat alone if I go over I may not have time/or panic and just push button. It was meant to be used if separated from my boat for any reason. The radio I have is the best you can get it has fully DSC with GPS coordinates. I would say we must have some flaw in the system if we can't pick up that on our systems specifically inshore. Expecting people to start calling VHF in life.death situation in cold freezing water can be a little ridiculous.... Not everyone is going to be able to do that...

My boat also has is wired to my GPS with my number assigned to my boat. That is in data base as well...

I can see have an EPIRB for offshore but close in shore I was unaware that DSC was pretty much being ignored...
 
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I think it is mostly because of all the false alarms. Someone posted up a statistic on it not that long ago. As well, you know the Coast Guard has been cut back quite a bit due to our current Federal Government.

I agree with Beemer as he is in the industry and on the water everyday. I wouldn't rely on that little flip flap orange thing on my top of the line VHF either. I'm hailing someone on the radio in person if possible. If I don't get anything from that I'm hitting the 911 406 freq PLB (and I'm only hitting that if I'm actually going down).

In all reality, it is up to YOU to be prepared on the water. If you expect someone to come to your beck and call when **** hit's the fan then your probably not going to make it through the event. If you are prepared and can rely mostly upon yourself and other informed people on the boat, or other informed boaters around you, then you have half a chance at surviving the event.
 
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