O
omineca
Guest
you a guide wolf? mabye email me, i would like to know more about it
Catching Bait
- Thread starter Red Monster
- Start date
wolf
Well-Known Member
Red its just easier in a couple of ways to fish chovie than cut plug.whan you cut plug you troll alot slower than chovie and it is more of a finesse thing to get just the "right roll" when your trolling that slow cut pluging. Chovie fishing you cover more water because your trolling twice as fast,so your showing the bait to more fish hence increasing your odds.One thing about cut pluging though, say at nitnat because it is such a small area to fish it is a spot which is best suited for that type of fishing because you dont want to move far.And it can be very crowded in there trust me LOL LOL if any one has fished there before.
Omineca yes I do guide e-mail me if you like
Good luck Wolf
Edited by - wolf on 01/08/2005 16:47:21
Omineca yes I do guide e-mail me if you like
Good luck Wolf
Edited by - wolf on 01/08/2005 16:47:21
Red Monster
Well-Known Member
I get it. Thanks, Wolf.<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>
Remember, it's called "fishing," not "catching."
Remember, it's called "fishing," not "catching."
I fish the Sooke area, WCVI, and Sansum Narrows almost exclusively with cut-plug, unless I'm targeting other species like socks and pinks. Learned the ins and outs from a fella in Campbell River 20 something years ago and never looked back.
Some things to think about when cut-plugging:
1. It's cost effective. You don't need downriggers, cannonballs, flashers, or teaserheads, just a couple of hooks and a 4-12 oz. banana weight. That works out to about $2.00 to get your rod in the water plus bait. Lose a flasher, that's at least 4 setups.
2. Goooooo slowwwwwww. Can't emphasize this enough. Motor mooching at the Trap Shack in Sooke, you're looking at about 50-70 feet of water in the bay (except for the reefs at either end - up to 30 ft. or less) Drop your line right down to the bottom and reel up about 5-10 turns and put your motor in gear to the slowest speed possible until your line angles about 45 degrees and then take her out of gear and let it drop back. If you find your revs are too high on your engine and your line rises fairly quickly, try reverse instead, it's a little slower. Repeat and don't let the bait sit perpendicular to the surface or you'll be hooking up with other fishes, cods, doggies, etc.
3. Work structure. Get a chart for the area your fishing and find those underwater points and dropoffs. Pays to have a sounder too.
4. I usually use medium herring, but large will work (if I have too). Never can seem to get the right roll with the extra large though. If your going somewhere for a weekend, buy all the bait you may think you and put it in a brine and leave it there, taking only what you need for the days excursion. Also saves on trying to find someone that sells medium herring of the beaten track.
5. If you haven't cut-plug befor, get a jig to cut your bait with. Once you've figured out how, what, where and why you cut bait, then you can start experimenting a little to see what kind of cut would slow your roll in a faster tide.
I have far greater success with herring than with anchovies. As matter of fact, I've never caught anything bigger than 10 lbs with a 'chovie, buts that's probably just me. Funny thing is, you go out to Sooke and you've got 200 boats out there on a nice July day and you might only see 3-4 fish caught that day. The one in the bottom of my boat looks pretty darn good when I know I'm probably one of very few guys out there fishing a cut-plug.
Anyways hopes this helps anybody that might be wondering.
Cabin fever strikes again. I hear a winter spring calling my name, gotta go!!!!
Seafood, it eat, then catch more.
Some things to think about when cut-plugging:
1. It's cost effective. You don't need downriggers, cannonballs, flashers, or teaserheads, just a couple of hooks and a 4-12 oz. banana weight. That works out to about $2.00 to get your rod in the water plus bait. Lose a flasher, that's at least 4 setups.
2. Goooooo slowwwwwww. Can't emphasize this enough. Motor mooching at the Trap Shack in Sooke, you're looking at about 50-70 feet of water in the bay (except for the reefs at either end - up to 30 ft. or less) Drop your line right down to the bottom and reel up about 5-10 turns and put your motor in gear to the slowest speed possible until your line angles about 45 degrees and then take her out of gear and let it drop back. If you find your revs are too high on your engine and your line rises fairly quickly, try reverse instead, it's a little slower. Repeat and don't let the bait sit perpendicular to the surface or you'll be hooking up with other fishes, cods, doggies, etc.
3. Work structure. Get a chart for the area your fishing and find those underwater points and dropoffs. Pays to have a sounder too.
4. I usually use medium herring, but large will work (if I have too). Never can seem to get the right roll with the extra large though. If your going somewhere for a weekend, buy all the bait you may think you and put it in a brine and leave it there, taking only what you need for the days excursion. Also saves on trying to find someone that sells medium herring of the beaten track.
5. If you haven't cut-plug befor, get a jig to cut your bait with. Once you've figured out how, what, where and why you cut bait, then you can start experimenting a little to see what kind of cut would slow your roll in a faster tide.
I have far greater success with herring than with anchovies. As matter of fact, I've never caught anything bigger than 10 lbs with a 'chovie, buts that's probably just me. Funny thing is, you go out to Sooke and you've got 200 boats out there on a nice July day and you might only see 3-4 fish caught that day. The one in the bottom of my boat looks pretty darn good when I know I'm probably one of very few guys out there fishing a cut-plug.
Anyways hopes this helps anybody that might be wondering.
Cabin fever strikes again. I hear a winter spring calling my name, gotta go!!!!
Seafood, it eat, then catch more.
wolf
Well-Known Member
Where are you fishing in sooke seeing only 3 or 4 fish caught, I catch that daily on some days and definatly not on cut plug its chovie all the way the current is too strong most times in sooke to even attempt to cut plug it just blows up and i personally do not like trolling backwards.
WOLF
WOLF
Wolf: I generally fish the trap shack to O'brien or off Aldredge Pt. Didn't mean to sound like there's no fish in Sooke, quite the contrary actually. But there are a lot of times when you have 100-200 boats out on the water and the only guys catching fish are the guides and the guys that actually know how to put fish in the boat. Remember 10% of the guys catch 90% of the fish. And we are only talking springs here.
As for the current being too strong, I have to disagree with you there. Cut-plugging was/is hugely popular in Campbell River and their tides are far stronger than most anything we experience in Sooke. The trick is getting down to them, and I've found that the 16 oz. sliding ball weights are better suited to heavier tides than the standard bananas as they cut down resistance. As you probably know, most fish are taken on either side of a slack tide to start with. When I'm cut-plugging, I'm looking for places that push bait up against the wall at the head/trap or the back eddy that forms at Aldredge / Church / Secretary etc. on the floods.
As for going backwards, it works like a hot damn if you have just a little current and want to hold over the hole where the fish are laying. You'ld be surprised to see where they actually stack up in Sooke out of the current. You can spit on the rocks and kelp. Separation Pt. in Cowichan Bay is a prime example. There is a hole where the springs stack up in Aug. just inside the bay. (Area is now closed) But this hole is only maybe 30 yds long and your jockeying with the jiggers to retain position. Trollers can't get in there without creating havoc, but a cut-plugger can, just by dropping in and out of reverse gear, still retaining the action on your plug and sitting on the fish.
Yote:I really like a wide slow roll as you suggest. Keep an eye always on your rod tip, if a spring picks it up it will either slam it, and you know you have a fish, or, it may just mouth it a bit identified by you losing the bend in your rod or just seeing twitches at the end. Here you have two options, 1) reel like crazy and hit it 'cause he's picked it up and rising or 2) if you too slow and the weights coming back feed it out a couple of feet, he may just come back. It happens. One other important tidbit, get the best bait you can. Look for really nice, shiney medium-large herring. The fewer scales missing the better.
Good luck,
George<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>
Seafood, it eat, then catch more.
As for the current being too strong, I have to disagree with you there. Cut-plugging was/is hugely popular in Campbell River and their tides are far stronger than most anything we experience in Sooke. The trick is getting down to them, and I've found that the 16 oz. sliding ball weights are better suited to heavier tides than the standard bananas as they cut down resistance. As you probably know, most fish are taken on either side of a slack tide to start with. When I'm cut-plugging, I'm looking for places that push bait up against the wall at the head/trap or the back eddy that forms at Aldredge / Church / Secretary etc. on the floods.
As for going backwards, it works like a hot damn if you have just a little current and want to hold over the hole where the fish are laying. You'ld be surprised to see where they actually stack up in Sooke out of the current. You can spit on the rocks and kelp. Separation Pt. in Cowichan Bay is a prime example. There is a hole where the springs stack up in Aug. just inside the bay. (Area is now closed) But this hole is only maybe 30 yds long and your jockeying with the jiggers to retain position. Trollers can't get in there without creating havoc, but a cut-plugger can, just by dropping in and out of reverse gear, still retaining the action on your plug and sitting on the fish.
Yote:I really like a wide slow roll as you suggest. Keep an eye always on your rod tip, if a spring picks it up it will either slam it, and you know you have a fish, or, it may just mouth it a bit identified by you losing the bend in your rod or just seeing twitches at the end. Here you have two options, 1) reel like crazy and hit it 'cause he's picked it up and rising or 2) if you too slow and the weights coming back feed it out a couple of feet, he may just come back. It happens. One other important tidbit, get the best bait you can. Look for really nice, shiney medium-large herring. The fewer scales missing the better.
Good luck,
George<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>
Seafood, it eat, then catch more.
Thanks George. I have cut plugged with a buddy a few times in Renfrew and really enjoyed the tactfullness of that type of fishing, let alone the fight with no flasher etc. I think that it could work in Sooke too but until this year where I now have my own boat, I had to fish with my buddy and there was no patience for cut plugging from him becasue he always gets them on the "chov"e so it's hard to persuade him to try something else.
Cheers.
Wolf
Cheers.
Wolf
Red Monster
Well-Known Member
Fishhawk, I think that's called motor mooching. I understand it can be deadly in situaions where there's lots of current.
I've seen a guy in a small aluminium boat doing this at Ambleside. But he simply stays in one spot and off to the side to avoid trollers like me.
On one occasion, when he seemed to be getting lots of action with his plugs while I was getting plenty of nothing trolling anchovies, I decided to try a plug that I managed to rig using my vauge recollection of how to cut and hook the herring I had brought along for just such an attempt. Slowly fishing my gimpy plug right on the bottom off the downrigger, I soon noticed my line moving away in the current, obviously out of the clip. And when I started to reel in the line, I was surprised to find a big-butt spring on the other end trying to make a meal of my humble offering. It was the only fish I caught that day.
Besides anchovies and herrings, I wonder what other baitfish could be used? Why not smelts? or sardines?
Remember, it's called "fishing," not "catching."
I've seen a guy in a small aluminium boat doing this at Ambleside. But he simply stays in one spot and off to the side to avoid trollers like me.
On one occasion, when he seemed to be getting lots of action with his plugs while I was getting plenty of nothing trolling anchovies, I decided to try a plug that I managed to rig using my vauge recollection of how to cut and hook the herring I had brought along for just such an attempt. Slowly fishing my gimpy plug right on the bottom off the downrigger, I soon noticed my line moving away in the current, obviously out of the clip. And when I started to reel in the line, I was surprised to find a big-butt spring on the other end trying to make a meal of my humble offering. It was the only fish I caught that day.
Besides anchovies and herrings, I wonder what other baitfish could be used? Why not smelts? or sardines?
Remember, it's called "fishing," not "catching."
S
salmon9
Guest
I used to fish a lot with cut plugs and have done well with them around Campbell River and the north coast around Rupert. I seem to struggle with cut plugs for chinook around sooke, beechy and pedder. I catch fish on them in these areas but not as many with anchovies/flasher on a downrigger. I find when I do try to fish cut plugs with 8 ounces of lead slow, in close and along the tide lines I get in the way with the mass of boats doing the fast anchovie troll thing. When I am still wanting to fish cut plugs around sooke I brine the crap out of them so they do not loose their shape and roll. I fish the cut plugs without a flasher clipped to 15 lbs of downrigger weight and I fish out a little deeper and in the current. I find though I miss a lot more fish this way than anchovies in a teaser head with a treble. I think brining pre-cut cut plugs is the only way to go. When coho are around I find cut-plugs out fish everything else.
Red Monster: Exactly right, motor mooching it is. My boat is not equiped with downriggers, so this is a very effective way for me to get down to where the fish are. There used to be a time when I dragged around 2 lb cannon balls and and drag flashers and bait holders of different types but I tired of having to drag that up all the time, not to mention that the weight would put my rod tip buried 10 inches under water all the time.
Salmon9: CR is where I was taught my cut-plugging techniques. When I'm fishing Sooke waters, I'm really tight to the kelp beds and reefs, usually no more than 2-3 rod lengths. I found that most trollers don't like to go in that tight. There was a time when I used anchovies, man, I tried every way there was to rig those things up, even adding a little backbone to the bait to retain the appropriate roll. Just couldn't catch a fish. Brining your bait is always a good practice, I may have forgotten to mention that earlier. Especially in areas where there is strong tidal flow or you are going a light speed (as in fishing for coho) Brining does add some lifespan to your bait.
Seafood, it eat, then catch more.
Salmon9: CR is where I was taught my cut-plugging techniques. When I'm fishing Sooke waters, I'm really tight to the kelp beds and reefs, usually no more than 2-3 rod lengths. I found that most trollers don't like to go in that tight. There was a time when I used anchovies, man, I tried every way there was to rig those things up, even adding a little backbone to the bait to retain the appropriate roll. Just couldn't catch a fish. Brining your bait is always a good practice, I may have forgotten to mention that earlier. Especially in areas where there is strong tidal flow or you are going a light speed (as in fishing for coho) Brining does add some lifespan to your bait.
Seafood, it eat, then catch more.
Red Monster
Well-Known Member
Salmon9:I've never used cut-plugs for coho. Any coho-specific tips? I did notice on my cutting jig that coho plugs are cut at a different angle. I would brine first and use a downrigger. Anything else? I guess you don't need a flasher either.
Remember, it's called "fishing," not "catching."
Remember, it's called "fishing," not "catching."
Red Monster: For cohos, use med-large herring. With springs you would normally cut your bait just behind the head, with coho, cut just ahead of the dorsel fin. Use a single hook, thread through the cavity, exiting on the short side just above the lateral line and imbed the hook back about an inch from the tail. Troll fast, that should just spin like crazy. No slow roll here, they like it fast and she can just skip along if your fishing near the surface. Slow down just a little if your on the downrigger.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Seafood, it eat, then catch more.
Seafood, it eat, then catch more.
Red Monster
Well-Known Member
fishhawk9: This is great information specific to coho cut-plugs, and I plan to give it a try. I had no idea about how to rig a plug differently for coho. Excellent!
Around Vancouver, the coho will sometimes take a white hootchie like crazy (many limits of coho two years ago on hootchies), sometimes they like spoons, and other times they won't take anything, which is quite frustrating when you know there are lots of coho around. I caught a huge coho for around here (about 14 pounds) this past fall on an anchovie when I was fishing for springs. So I think cut-plugs would be worth a try around here, as well as when I go to the island.
So you only use one hook? That's it? I guess the way you suggested to cut the herring requires just one hook. And when you say to place the hook an inch from the tail, how exactly do you do this? Does the point of the hook simply enter the tail from one side (from the short cut side) and exit out the other side (the long side), leaving behind the shank of the hook to run parallel the short side of the herring? I just want to make sure about how to rig the hook because I know it's critical. With practice I can mess with fine tuning later.
If both spring and coho were around, I suspect that you may be able to use anchovies (for springs) and cut-plugs (for coho) at the same time, with the cut-plug line on or off the downrigger. I usually troll springs using anchovies and flashers at between 1 and 2 mph, the flasher rotating about once every second. How fast would you reckon the coho plugs should be trolled?
Remember, it's called "fishing," not "catching."
Around Vancouver, the coho will sometimes take a white hootchie like crazy (many limits of coho two years ago on hootchies), sometimes they like spoons, and other times they won't take anything, which is quite frustrating when you know there are lots of coho around. I caught a huge coho for around here (about 14 pounds) this past fall on an anchovie when I was fishing for springs. So I think cut-plugs would be worth a try around here, as well as when I go to the island.
So you only use one hook? That's it? I guess the way you suggested to cut the herring requires just one hook. And when you say to place the hook an inch from the tail, how exactly do you do this? Does the point of the hook simply enter the tail from one side (from the short cut side) and exit out the other side (the long side), leaving behind the shank of the hook to run parallel the short side of the herring? I just want to make sure about how to rig the hook because I know it's critical. With practice I can mess with fine tuning later.
If both spring and coho were around, I suspect that you may be able to use anchovies (for springs) and cut-plugs (for coho) at the same time, with the cut-plug line on or off the downrigger. I usually troll springs using anchovies and flashers at between 1 and 2 mph, the flasher rotating about once every second. How fast would you reckon the coho plugs should be trolled?
Remember, it's called "fishing," not "catching."
N
Nick Nameless
Guest
Back on the "Catch your own bait" topic. Anyone got any tips on when, where and how to supply up on anchovies apart from lookin in a stores freezer.
S
salmon9
Guest
Red Monster, check out the Salmon University website (www.salmonuniversity.com). I have attached a link below as how to prepare a cut plug. Check out their bait brine as well.
I think many fishers have their own little tricks to rigging a cut plug. When I could get live bait I would beary the eyes of both of my hooks on the long side of the cut plug (live bait was more firm and the top hook wouldn't pull out). Now since I usually only fish with frozen brined herring I follow salmon university's hook setup but beary the back hook near the tail (stick the sharp end of the hook into the flesh, rotate the hook until the shank is under the flesh and I like to beary the eye of the hook). I find salmon university's method gives a nice roll and is quite easy to do. Brining is critical for firmness and you also minimize scale loss.
I don't change my methods much when using cut plugs for coho and springs. I tend to choose med-small for coho and med-large herring for chinook. My speed is increased a bit when fishing off a downrigger for coho, but not that much. I tend to troll slow compared to most. If I see rising or jumping coho, like in Alberni Inlet, I may try to troll shallow and quite fast - had some great days doing this.
I tie my own cut plug leaders and prefer to go as light as possible. My leader length is usually around 5-6 ft on a flasher or tied to a small swivel to my main line. I like 15 lb maxima ultragreen and 3/0 gammie hooks. If big fish are around I will go 20 or maybe 25lb with 4/0 hooks.
I sometimes will carry a spin cast rod with me with a herring jig. Jigged bait works great when you can get it. I haven't jigged for anchovies but expect if they are around you could catch them. The Japanese manufactured jigs are the best.
http://www.salmonuniversity.com/ol_htrh_pc1_index.html
I think many fishers have their own little tricks to rigging a cut plug. When I could get live bait I would beary the eyes of both of my hooks on the long side of the cut plug (live bait was more firm and the top hook wouldn't pull out). Now since I usually only fish with frozen brined herring I follow salmon university's hook setup but beary the back hook near the tail (stick the sharp end of the hook into the flesh, rotate the hook until the shank is under the flesh and I like to beary the eye of the hook). I find salmon university's method gives a nice roll and is quite easy to do. Brining is critical for firmness and you also minimize scale loss.
I don't change my methods much when using cut plugs for coho and springs. I tend to choose med-small for coho and med-large herring for chinook. My speed is increased a bit when fishing off a downrigger for coho, but not that much. I tend to troll slow compared to most. If I see rising or jumping coho, like in Alberni Inlet, I may try to troll shallow and quite fast - had some great days doing this.
I tie my own cut plug leaders and prefer to go as light as possible. My leader length is usually around 5-6 ft on a flasher or tied to a small swivel to my main line. I like 15 lb maxima ultragreen and 3/0 gammie hooks. If big fish are around I will go 20 or maybe 25lb with 4/0 hooks.
I sometimes will carry a spin cast rod with me with a herring jig. Jigged bait works great when you can get it. I haven't jigged for anchovies but expect if they are around you could catch them. The Japanese manufactured jigs are the best.
http://www.salmonuniversity.com/ol_htrh_pc1_index.html
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