Strategy for the Northern and Southern Resident Killer Whales
- Thread starter cohochinook
- Start date
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/se...thwest-chinook-salmon-to-help-orcas/830878864
I'll bet over 90% of their Chinook comes from SEAK.
I'd say Dave, California, & myself are pretty middle of the road out in the real world.
If all posts on here were backed-up by some sort of evidence other than the opinion of the poster I believe things would go a lot better. But hey, if all you want to do on here is rant, have at it.
I'll bet over 90% of their Chinook comes from SEAK.
I'd say Dave, California, & myself are pretty middle of the road out in the real world.
If all posts on here were backed-up by some sort of evidence other than the opinion of the poster I believe things would go a lot better. But hey, if all you want to do on here is rant, have at it.
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
I've been known to go off on a rant every once in a while. I try to post supporting informative files but the keep coming up with a notification of "file is too large".
fishin_magician
Well-Known Member
Well, not that this is helpful but Scarlett-J50 is now presumed deceased...we better come up with something....and something good.
Islander57
Well-Known Member
J-50 has been confirmed this evening as deceased
There are interesting replies that seem to assume because they said it, it must be fact. In fact, since May this year inn Georgia Strait there have been large numbers of chinook in the 15 to 20 odd pound range...mostly lower Fraser fish, then followed by the large South Thompson run. This is supported by creel survey and log book records from contributing anglers...South Coast stock Assessment can also support his statement.
So...if for 4 or 5 months of good abundance of chinook the whales we are told by arm chair experts and tweet specialists that the whales are starving, I have to ask why? It is not problems with abundance over this 4 to 5 month time period. They should have been putting on weight in spades...but have not...so....there are two reasons for starving: Lack of abundance of food or choosing not to eat.
I have had the unpleasant experience of visiting a cancer ward in hospital, and looking at the patients, you would think they are starving, gaunt, pale colour, thin. I have had many pets, and know that dogs and cats when really ill simply stop eating ! They will literally die unless we intervene with medicine and care if possible given the illness.
It is quite possible my mind that these whales are ill, really ill from 50 years of toxins, and their immune system is very low, open to parasites, infections, etc. I believe they simply don't feel like eating, are wasting away, and give the appearance to populist arm chair scientists that they are starving for lack of food.
So...if for 4 or 5 months of good abundance of chinook the whales we are told by arm chair experts and tweet specialists that the whales are starving, I have to ask why? It is not problems with abundance over this 4 to 5 month time period. They should have been putting on weight in spades...but have not...so....there are two reasons for starving: Lack of abundance of food or choosing not to eat.
I have had the unpleasant experience of visiting a cancer ward in hospital, and looking at the patients, you would think they are starving, gaunt, pale colour, thin. I have had many pets, and know that dogs and cats when really ill simply stop eating ! They will literally die unless we intervene with medicine and care if possible given the illness.
It is quite possible my mind that these whales are ill, really ill from 50 years of toxins, and their immune system is very low, open to parasites, infections, etc. I believe they simply don't feel like eating, are wasting away, and give the appearance to populist arm chair scientists that they are starving for lack of food.
We were discussing the plight of the SRKW this summer on an afternoon off Otter Point. The primary question was, "if there was a chance that not fishing Chinook could save the whales, what would you do?" No question about it we would stop fishing Chinook. Full Stop. But I don't think there's too many of us that believe that's a solution. These closures and restrictions are coming in parallel with the Feds determined push for the pipeline. The idea that they promote a quiet refuge while allowing WWs, crabbers, and other unnecessary marine traffic speaks directly to political interference.
What I think they have done is provide us with an opportunity to directly address the 60 plus year problem that has been ineffective DFO - mismanagement of our marine environment from top to bottom. We as a community need to see this as an opportunity and run directly at this issue - do and be seen to be doing all we can to help Chinook and Orcas. To repeat part of Searun's list, to me this would primarily revolve around stream / environment enhancement, netpens like Sooke's current project, increased hatchery operations, and accounting for our efforts. By accounting for our efforts, including estimating and growing the value of what we contribute to the ocean vs. what we take we can reverse the growing sentiment that we are killing the whales. We can identify and support that we are actually part of the solution and not the problem.
What I think they have done is provide us with an opportunity to directly address the 60 plus year problem that has been ineffective DFO - mismanagement of our marine environment from top to bottom. We as a community need to see this as an opportunity and run directly at this issue - do and be seen to be doing all we can to help Chinook and Orcas. To repeat part of Searun's list, to me this would primarily revolve around stream / environment enhancement, netpens like Sooke's current project, increased hatchery operations, and accounting for our efforts. By accounting for our efforts, including estimating and growing the value of what we contribute to the ocean vs. what we take we can reverse the growing sentiment that we are killing the whales. We can identify and support that we are actually part of the solution and not the problem.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
speechless....
RiverBoy
Well-Known Member
Do they have possession of J-50’s body? i would assume a necropsy is forthcoming. The deceased Orca that washed up by Bates Beach / Kitty Coleman a few years ago was treated as a hazmat situation after the people who initially found the whale couldn’t be near its body for too long - there was an ammonia like smell emanating from the body that made people ill. have no idea what pod the whale came from.
No they are still looking for it but haven't seen it with J pod since Friday. Often if they die in deeper water they are never seen again. Hopefully she washes ashore sooner than later so they can determine the cause of death ...which may help the others in her pod.
california
Well-Known Member
Let me get this straight. So you criticize the "armchair scientists" presumably guys like John Ford PhD and other scientists, decades of studying these whales, who have concluded prey availability as well as toxic loads, acoustic disturbance and the interplay between them are primary issues. But the real "science" is you have visited a cancer ward, had a revelation about what the real issue is for these whales. have made up a nonsensical theory based on no supporting evidence that supports your flawed narrative that Chinook stocks have not declined. And THAT is the "science" that should be believed and followed!
T
The Jackel
Guest
First off cali do you fish or hunt, if so show pics if not bugger off and find another forum. As for the demise of the SRKW, look at the facts, lack of births, any new whales born die shortly after, 2 dominant breeding males. Fairly straight forward poor gene pool and highly contaminated and inability to adapt. Oh and before Cali and gang go off on another tangent this comes from a very good friend of mine who is a retired DFO biologist.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Thanks for pointing out the obvious Jackel, and points. Pretty much why hardly anyone posting on the thread anymore.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Maybe we should transplant the SRKW pod to the great lakes 
seems to be lots of chinook there
seems to be lots of chinook thereGood points Jackel! As a biologist myself it is concerning that all of the reporting seems to focus entirely on chinook abundance as opposed to all of the different issues the whales face. Are the chinook runs what they used to be, no they are not, but when this story is covered on the news, not once have they talked about the extent of inbreeding that is going on with these whales. There has been genetic analysis conducted, which shows that one of the males has bred with his sisters, mother and cousins. Of course there is going to be birth defects and illnesses running through the pod. People across Canada don't know the entire story because it is not being presented. They are being led to believe chinook abundance is the only issue at play here. In my opinion the seal/sea lion population is also a major issue but I will save that for another day.
While there seem to be few people posting, Spring Velocity, there have been 11,000 views which is interesting. The issue around declining chinook is interesting, as a general statement if one looks at the total chinook harvests over the last 10 years from California to SEAK, yes there has certainly been a decline overall. However, looking at Georgia Strait, to say that there is a huge lack of chinook I believe is misleading, and not entirely correct, but it seems to be the main focus of the save the whales groups. There are certain chinook runs which are doing pretty well, notable the South Thompson and lower Fraser chinook. The lower Fraser were at record numbers 3 or 4 years ago, and have declined a little to more average returns, but still healthy numbers. The chinook runs most in trouble are the spring and summer runs, as well as the yearling chinook which enter the sea as larger 1 or 1 + year olds. The single most successful stock, the South Thompson enter the ocean as small smolts in July into late July. We have been told by the scientists they know that seals and sea lions are eating emerging smolts, and of course they are targeting the larger smolts....yearlings for sure.
For the last three years the Lower Fraser chinook have returned through Georgia Strait, and from April through to August have been in large schools from Qualicum over to Texada Island, down to Nanaimo, Porlier Pass, and over to mainland providing excellent to outstanding fishing...reading the fishing reports from that time period for the Vancouver thread and Nanaimo thread will reinforce that....as would anyone who gets out on the water and fishes in these areas.
I still maintain that the availability of chinook is not the main problem during the April to August period if they were to forage in this large area. I believe that not is like many issues...a series of interconnected negative impacts....of course the genetics play a major role, I believe, and the build of a huge load of toxins does, I still maintain impact feeding desire and energetics of these animals. Yes, from late October to April; there is certainly a lower number of chinook, particularly in the 20 lb. range, although I understand the Birkenhead run comes through Georgia strait in February / March, and are larger fish, in the 20 lb. range.
Spring Velocity was right to look for solutions based discourse, and I think that should use the latest available knowledge to use better hatchery techniques, examine which specific stocks to choose for enhancement, and look at predation by pinnipeds as a beginning strategy.
For the last three years the Lower Fraser chinook have returned through Georgia Strait, and from April through to August have been in large schools from Qualicum over to Texada Island, down to Nanaimo, Porlier Pass, and over to mainland providing excellent to outstanding fishing...reading the fishing reports from that time period for the Vancouver thread and Nanaimo thread will reinforce that....as would anyone who gets out on the water and fishes in these areas.
I still maintain that the availability of chinook is not the main problem during the April to August period if they were to forage in this large area. I believe that not is like many issues...a series of interconnected negative impacts....of course the genetics play a major role, I believe, and the build of a huge load of toxins does, I still maintain impact feeding desire and energetics of these animals. Yes, from late October to April; there is certainly a lower number of chinook, particularly in the 20 lb. range, although I understand the Birkenhead run comes through Georgia strait in February / March, and are larger fish, in the 20 lb. range.
Spring Velocity was right to look for solutions based discourse, and I think that should use the latest available knowledge to use better hatchery techniques, examine which specific stocks to choose for enhancement, and look at predation by pinnipeds as a beginning strategy.
ziggy
Well-Known Member
Wonder if this contributed to the problem
1966-early 1970s Don Goldsberry and Ted Griffin develop a netting technique for capturing orcas in Puget Sound, selling the animals mostly to Sea World. By the early 1970s, Goldsberry has captured more than 200 orcas. About 30 were sent to various aquaria. The rest went to Sea World.
1970 Penn Cove, Washington, whale capture. 80 whales are corralled by the Seattle Public Aquarium's collectors. Several whales die during the capture. Their bellies are slit and they are weighed down with steel chains. A few of these whales wash ashore and cause public outcry against whale captures in Washington's waters.
1966-early 1970s Don Goldsberry and Ted Griffin develop a netting technique for capturing orcas in Puget Sound, selling the animals mostly to Sea World. By the early 1970s, Goldsberry has captured more than 200 orcas. About 30 were sent to various aquaria. The rest went to Sea World.
1970 Penn Cove, Washington, whale capture. 80 whales are corralled by the Seattle Public Aquarium's collectors. Several whales die during the capture. Their bellies are slit and they are weighed down with steel chains. A few of these whales wash ashore and cause public outcry against whale captures in Washington's waters.
saltydawg
Well-Known Member
Thats right Ziggy. They targeted and took the young easily trainable whales. Some had babies accompanying them which died. These same young whales are the same that should have been been breeding and sustaining the population in the wild for the past 40 years.Wonder if this contributed to the problem
1966-early 1970s Don Goldsberry and Ted Griffin develop a netting technique for capturing orcas in Puget Sound, selling the animals mostly to Sea World. By the early 1970s, Goldsberry has captured more than 200 orcas. About 30 were sent to various aquaria. The rest went to Sea World.
1970 Penn Cove, Washington, whale capture. 80 whales are corralled by the Seattle Public Aquarium's collectors. Several whales die during the capture. Their bellies are slit and they are weighed down with steel chains. A few of these whales wash ashore and cause public outcry against whale captures in Washington's waters.
saltydawg
Well-Known Member
I disagree traveller and here is why. Do you remember 2015? By mid June 2015 I was done fishing Springs. Freezer was full. No need to keep fishing. Most guys fishing out of Victoria still talk about that year. It was fantastic! That was the same year the Southern Residents had 9 babies born. We thought we had turned the corner. So I saw personally what more chinook also did for the Resi population. "No Fish. No Blackfish" https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/2015-orca-baby-boom-1.3382635
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