Something Wicked This Way Comes - ON THE LINE

Whatever reelfast I do not want to cut the US from our fuel but if you think it is dirty as you keep saying I can't force you to take it. I wish you luck in discerning which is which. If you can't do that then I take it you will drop buying gasoline from your budget.

still don't get it huh????

the EU called oil sands the 'dirtiest source of energy in the world'. i understand you 'don't like it', but thats what they said. you consider the EU liars? thats totally your perception and your problem.

me, i am very well aware of what this country has done over the course of time, i read alot. i won't defend or shirk from these actions, but what i will do is work to prevent them from happenning again while i am still on the planet. nuff said, i won't be responding to your trolls any longer gunsmith.
 
Well said, Charlie. Maybe you or the two non- trolls can enlighten the rest of us uneducated with some reliable info on the tar/oil sands? This all I have to go by so far;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sands.
Sounds pretty heavy to me.

Heavy is the understatement of the year. Here are just a few sources:-

http://www.pembina.org/oil-sands
http://oilsandstruth.org/
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2010/07/29/AlbertaHidesTruth/
http://agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2009/01/16/03043.html

There was a great documentary about the oil sands on the CBC Nature of Things about a year ago, that you can probably find on-line.
 
approximatel 40% of the refined oil products this country imports come from Canadian resources, thanks. the proposed XL pipeline to the gulf of mexico is a business deal between big oil in canada and big oil in the US. it is only a deal of convenience seeing as how the refining ability to deal with the oil sands product already is in place in the gulf states. NONE of that refined product will find its way into the US market, ZERO, ZILTCH, NADA, NOT A DROP. big oil is all about big money and that means selling the refined product to the higest bidder on the open market, read that asia, aka CHINA.

now as a US citizen, i wish you canadian would keep your pipeline N of the border but i realize that has the potential of absolutely ruining many classic and world renouned steelhead rivers, sorry. of course the very best option would be to not rape Alberta and simply shitcan the entire project, fat chance. and, of course, since this is a political event S of the border, the pipeline will eventually be built. all the best to the 'red' states and their citizens who are going to be impacted. but, hey, you get what you lobby for.............

and for the record, oil reserves are at an all time high in the US. consumption of those refined products is down and falling. this leads big oil to start marketting that refined product on the open market. for the record, the biggest dollar value exported product in 2011 for the US was.....drumroll.....refine petrolium products.
 
I will respond to one accusation made by David Schindler that the oilsands are polluting the Athabasca river. I would like to note that he only began sampling water from the plants downstream as the river is pristine south of Fort McMurray. It does not? have the run-off of countless rivers and streams draining vast acres of farmland. It does not have to worry about the three pulpmills along the Athabasca as they do not exist? All the communities along the water sheds do not take water from this source nor do they pump effluents into? the watersheds. It is obvious to me that he had no interest in checking the levels of pollutants all the way down the river from the park down as it surely would conflict with what he wanted to find.Here again I will not say that the plants here do not affect the water as I am sure they are responsible for some of the problem.
As to what Greenpeace was saying that the plants are using 349 million cubes of water from the Athabasca I have my doubts about that as Syncrude who would be the biggest user has a permit allowing 88 million cubes per year of this they have never used more than 50% of it as for my last 10yrs with this company were on the tailings panel and my job was also water recycling.
That famous video shot of the tailings pipe spewing what the media loves to call sludge has been so overused it is hilarious.
I would be the last one to claim there is no harm done but I will not spew out misinformation about them like most media ****** love to do as it does sell newspapers.
I could carry on about lots of crap but I will just say that neither pipelines are approved by me and I am not for them. I think that this oil should be processed by Canadians for Canadians and some excess processed material can be exported for Canadian profit. As it is now the profit is leaving the country.
 
An article in The Canadian claims that an area of 149,000 sq miles will be destroyed by the oilsands which the author has claimed is the size of Florida. Upon verification of these facts Alberta covers 255,500 sq miles,hmmm if my calculations are right that is almost half the province. Florida's land and water covers 65,758 sq miles hmmm again off by ONLY a tad.
When it comes to what we are able to mine and make tons of cash I think that the estimate is off only by a little. If the opposition to the oilsands can't get those facts right what else are they skewing?
I am willing to buy a lot of the facts but honesty does not sell newspapers.
Many years ago such witch hunts killed many an innocent woman.
 
Not only is our oil wanted but big business south of us are eyeballing our fresh water for export.
 
What is your opinion on the USA's President backpedaling on the Keystone line of late?. We unleashed a MAJOR shot over their bow so to speak and now their President seems to take notice.

http://theweek.com/article/index/225997/obamas-keystone-pipeline-turnaround-a-publicity-stunt

GOOD link! Also good links to follow in that article!

Harper's "major shot over the bow" was NOT very major, it was bearly noticed in the U.S. by anyone! That was for your Canadian benefit only. Harper got his PR out in Canada, to just try to gain support for "HIM" and "HIS" "BAD"programs. What "little" it did I find interesting was the articles popping up about how Harper is trying to turn Canada into an "Authoritarian Oil Government" which "HE" would have to have "authoritarian control" of your government to do that - Think I thought up that word myself?

That article is addressing the "southern" portion of the pipeline, which Obama has NO control. It is the "northern international" portion Obama vetoed. As previously mentioned Obama “veto” DOES NOT mean it is a dead issue.

As pointed out by Reelfast, the northern “international” portion of that pipeline has to go through and be approved by “Congress.” Then the President does have the power to “veto.” Every decision made by the President has to be approved by Congress. In International Politics the President can tell anyone anything he wants – it still takes Congress approval. FYI… The President is also the Commander-in-Chief. While the President “is pretty much a figure head” as role of President. As Commander-in-Chief, while actions are accountable to Congress, is required to stay within U.S. law (supposedly), that President has exercising supreme command authority of the ENTIRE U.S. military. IMHO rather puts the term “figure head” into another prospective. That would be a WHOLE LOT of POWER at his fingertips which he has FULL (temporary) authority of. FYI… Russia leaders believed Regan so radically and unpredictable he going to use that power for “nuclear first strike” - scared the hell out of them! Another FYI... the President as Commander-in-Chief authorized troops to go to Vietnam, it took "An Act of Congress" approval to keep them there. After the Vietnam U.S. withdrawal Congress passed a law withdrawing the Presidents “power” to send ANY “Combat” troops back, without Congress prior approval. End result as soon as North Vietnam learned of that law, end of story – FULL invasion of the South!

Back to the pipeline, picked these up in those links, just tought I share:
“The president stages a photo-op in Oklahoma to take credit for the portion of the Keystone XL pipeline that doesn't need his approval and for oil production on private and state lands beyond his jurisdiction.

“It's the section that doesn't need presidential or State Department approval since it does not cross an international boundary.

“The part that does require State Department approval and a presidential blessing, and which holds as much as 24 billion barrels of oil, runs from the rich oil sands of Alberta, past the booming oil fields of the Bakken shale formation in North Dakota and down to Cushing. It is the portion Obama killed in January.
http://news.investors.com/article/6...keystone-xl-pipeline-photo-op-.htm?src=IBDDAE

"This administration has expanded drilling in the Arctic, has delayed protections from smog, and at the same time done more for clean energy and to cut oil consumption than any administration ever," said Michael Brune, executive director of the Sierra Club. "By our view, that's a combination of wins and losses, or advances and retreats, that shows a pragmatic and moderate record."
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Electi...t-green-enough-say-environmentalists/(page)/2

Keep in mind, it is a well known fact when natual oil is gone - it is GONE! When Canada sells all of it's oil to either the U.S. or China, what is Canada in a couple of hundred years - WHEN YOU HAVE NONE? I posted the following chart to think about!

There is a difference between NEED and WANT! The U.S. wants the oil for one reason and one reason ONLY - we don't want to use OURS. They both end up being the same price to the end user, so why buy and use YOURS! Any country selling their resources off when they can buy them (HARPER) is not LONG TERM smart - PERIOD! It is called National Security!

In case some don’t know, the U.S. actually has more combined resources than any country in the world. Some is authorized for use - some takes that “Act of Congress” to use. It is estimated, if the U.S. stops all foreign import of oil there would be enough in the U.S. “oil reserve” (which does that Act of Congress to use) to currently last approximately 200 years (I have read, but NOT confirmed that).

ISSoil_120322.jpg


http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq320/charlie4278/ISSoil_120322.jpg

My 2 cents for the day... Get ready to start using “ethanol” – IT IS coming!
 
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My take on the whole matter is that it is a bunch of posturing, photo ops and a puppet show where the string holders sit behind the curtains sharing drinks and socializing and discussing their plans.
 
My take on the whole matter is that it is a bunch of posturing, photo ops and a puppet show where the string holders sit behind the curtains sharing drinks and socializing and discussing their plans.
I think you might have left out the ones "pulling the strings" in both countries is "big" business. I can actually show how "Monsanto" deals with the FDA... it is easy if one watches, if Monsanto doesn't like the FDA decission - "OUT" goes the current one, and "IN" comes other! Funny how the going out does not have anything to do with Monsanto; however, the "other" always coming in - is "always associated" with none other than... guess who - MONSANTO!

Wondering how long it is before Harper trys overiding those very "GOOD" Canadian past decissons already in force?
 
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Remember Harper is the kid that takes his toys home if he doesn't like the rules.
 
Something Wicked This Way Comes - to Comox

So the hearings are here and I have been attending.
So far no one supports this idea here in the Comox Valley.
One speaker from an Northern Alberta FN Band is officially undecided.
I counted 180 people in attendance at the hearing and it seems no one supports this project

There is to be a protest at 1pm today (Saturday) to show support for the NO crowd.
It's at the Rec Center on Noel Ave in Comox.

I would like to know the opinion of our local area 14 recreation fishermen in this matter.
The subject was brought up in our last SFAC meeting and I would like to get a for and against position.
Post here or PM me if you would like.

On a personal note my family and friends are very divided on this issue.
I'm trying to stay neutral but I'm having a hard time keeping my personal opinion out of it.
This effects our Coast and our Children.

GLG
 
Well i just got home from the rally. What a turnout! hundreds of people over 500 under 1500 is my guestimate! My opinion is we have to do everything we can to not let this happen.

Lorne
 
10 or more RCMP to control the mostly over 50 crowd who care about our country going down hill fast.
Calls us what you want but most folks were worried about our children and grandchildren.
I witnessed the oral presentations and was impressed at the comments I heard.
We even had an 11 year old boy who spoke well and asked the panel if they even knew what was going on.
You would think they did but I still wonder as they had no idea that 2 films on the subject have been made.
Some presenters ended there arguments saying that this may just be a farce as the government is changing laws and branding opponents as criminals just to make sure this project goes through.
As for our MP (Duncan) no where to be seen, as this must be bingo night at the Ottawa Bar and Grill.
I think the message is clear that Comox Valley does not support this project.

I had to laugh when someone in the crowd called out Robo Robo.....

GLG
 
10 or more RCMP to control the mostly over 50 crowd who care about our country going down hill fast.
Calls us what you want but most folks were worried about our children and grandchildren.
I witnessed the oral presentations and was impressed at the comments I heard.
We even had an 11 year old boy who spoke well and asked the panel if they even knew what was going on.
You would think they did but I still wonder as they had no idea that 2 films on the subject have been made.
Some presenters ended there arguments saying that this may just be a farce as the government is changing laws and branding opponents as criminals just to make sure this project goes through.
As for our MP (Duncan) no where to be seen, as this must be bingo night at the Ottawa Bar and Grill.
I think the message is clear that Comox Valley does not support this project.

I had to laugh when someone in the crowd called out Robo Robo.....

GLG

ITs funny you mentioned the over 50 crowd. I thought the same thing. Wtf is wrong with the younger(my generation) these days? We are the ones that are going to be relied on to keep these fights for our resources going. I am not optimstic. The only people Around my age were granola eaters.
 
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I was surprised at the dichotomy between the main age groups at the rally- as GLG said, there was a strong presence of us old relics, I presume he meant inside at the hearings?

Well it was the same outside at the rally.. but the second age group that showed up to express concern ( and outrage) was the mid teens to mid 20s. After that ,there seemed to be a big gap in the middle.

Some excellent presentations, and worth standing in the cold for a couple of hours to show our disdain for the Harper govt going full bore to shove an unwanted pipeline down BCs throat...

Anyone remember the name of that 11 yr old Sliammon girl who sang so beautifully and is sure to be a future star ???
 
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Good for you guys, attending the meeting, presentations and rally in Comox. If that event got a few hundred we should get a couple of thousand or more in Victoria. (Which should be in the November to March 2013 timeframe unless there are furher attempts by Harper to subvert and abrogate the process - there are no dates on the hearings web site yet.)

I don't think the demographics you guys observed are anything unusual for these types of events.
The "older" demographic (particularly those growing up in the 60's) have formed ideas and opinions and some wisdom and have a stake in the future through their descendents. The young ones have youthful ideals, just as we did back in the day. Both groups have some time. The ones in the middle are too busy struggling with relationships, babies and young children, mortgages, trying to get ahead in their jobs etc. to pay attention to this. We have to try and get their attention though.

And don't knock the "granola eaters". They at least do care and do try to make a difference for the environment. They are our allies and the Harper Govt is the enemy. Let's save the barbed comments for him, as he is the self righteous fundamentalist in the worse possible way.
 
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Good for you guys, attending the meeting, presentations and rally in Comox. If that event got a few hundred we should get a couple of thousand or more in Victoria. (Which should be in the November to March 2013 timeframe unless there are furher attempts by Harper to subvert and abrogate the process - there are no dates on the hearings web site yet.)

I don't think the demographics you guys observed are anything unusual for these types of events.
The "older" demographic (particularly those growing up in the 60's) have formed ideas and opinions and some wisdom and have a stake in the future through their descendents. The young ones have youthful ideals, just as we did back in the day. Both groups have some time. The ones in the middle are too busy struggling with relationships, babies and young children, mortgages, trying to get ahead in their jobs etc. to pay attention to this. We have to try and get their attention though.

And don't knock the "granola eaters". They at least do care and do try to make a difference for the environment. They are our allies and the Harper Govt is the enemy. Let's save the barbed comments for him, as he is the self righteous fundamentalist in the worse possible way.

I can assure you guys that there is a very strong opposition to this pipeline in the 25-35 range here in Victoria. Most of my friends are passionate about this topic and are willing to fight hard for this. The Pacific Wild guys are in this age group and have done a lot to share the facts regarding the proposed pipeline and have huge numbers of supporters. Looking forward to our chance to rally against this.
 
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