Cuba Libre
Well-Known Member
FD-- Take the time to read the SFAB letter--- they do NOT agree !
Proposal By DFO - Changes to Prawn Daily Rec. Limit Being Considered
- Thread starter SpringVelocity
- Start date
I am uniformed - my opinion only - The commercial sector does pound it hard and fast as much as they can get away with. Its how its currently managed. Not sure that the first nations fit in to that. Are there any numbers to back that up? I'd just be careful who we pick fights with, I'd rather them on our side and a unified front. Given a choice I'd list priorities as FN - Sport - Commercial. To often it seems FN - Commercial - Sport..... - Cheers
the fog ducker
Well-Known Member
i try not to talk out of my butt , and i dont put bs out there , its a fact in area 23 . it was ridiculous a couple years ago , im on the water , not at my desk yappin
hundreds of traps bein dropped , fish where they want , when they want , during closed times . you want videos ?? the stories of where they were going really pissed me off , but that i cant prove !!
commercial guys whining there not getting enough?? look in the mirror , or the other REAL problem ,
seems to be great numbers on this side of GS right now ,even the rookies are filling there tubs...
all bs in my eyes , yes i see SFAB is against this , just hope they dont cave in , once given , its never given back
hopefully we all can agree on that atleast
im out....
fd
Thanks for the time to reply Fog - the context helps, I fish area 28/29 so have not seen the same issues. IMHO a closure should be a closure regardless of the sector, and it should be properly enforced.... Its for all our benefits in the end.
For what its worth, I've had the best prawning yet this season - pulling limits for the first time.... In my area anyways, I don't think abundance is an issue.... well not until the commercial season comes into swing.... Then it will be slim pickings for a while!
Tight lines.
ziggy
Well-Known Member
I think taking a 50% cut would meet less resistance if it was being applied to all sectors. It doesn’t seem to matter what the conservation issue is, the solution is always the same, reduce the rec catch. This is not based on Science it is based on the politics of appeasing the uninformed public, by appearing to do something to solve a problem by attacking the low hanging fruit. Total avoidance in taking on the real issue, because it’s just too hard. On numerous occasions I have written DFO about the Carpet Bombing of Saanich Inlet by Commercial fishers and the subsequent waste.and left after they leave.
The problem is not just Commercials either, sport fishermen are fishing more traps than they are legally allowed to and leaving them out for the season, or at least large parts of it. There are many who daily go out and empty and then reset their traps daily throughout the season! Who needs that many prawns! Perhaps some enforcement of the current regulations is in order? Maybe if however you want to have a new reg to not enforce (sarcasm), maybe a rule that covers overnight soaking or not only showing your catch when checked, but also your traps to prove you’re no longer fishing?
The problem is not just Commercials either, sport fishermen are fishing more traps than they are legally allowed to and leaving them out for the season, or at least large parts of it. There are many who daily go out and empty and then reset their traps daily throughout the season! Who needs that many prawns! Perhaps some enforcement of the current regulations is in order? Maybe if however you want to have a new reg to not enforce (sarcasm), maybe a rule that covers overnight soaking or not only showing your catch when checked, but also your traps to prove you’re no longer fishing?
Wow, talk about turning on ourselves. Sport fishers all fish at different times of the day and come from other places to fish so just because you don't overnight don't rule it out for others. Sporties are not a problem and this has nothing to do with conservation.
the fog ducker
Well-Known Member
totally agree , hes speculating on sportys over harvesting , the point here is , theres ez limits before the " Carpet Bombing " of the commys , PERIOD ,
there Greedy and want it all . not a conservation issue ,NOTHING to do with sportys , no different than Halibut
once again , i know guys hitting the Vancouver area right now with ridiculous hauls...
fd
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
And then they all vanish by the summer
I stop crabbing to once the commercial and FN fleet is let loose. I had a DFO officer tell me that if the Musqueam band ate all the crab they take for FSC they would all be dead with clogged arteries.
Last edited:
ziggy
Well-Known Member
Calling a spade a spade, I’d be a liar if I said there wasn’t overharvesting on our part as well. We all know it,so let’s not pretend. As for turning on ourselves, I don’t see it that way, I’m not in that group. I see the same pots with the same name in the same place Every time I’m out. Some of them are growing nice crops of seaweed on the buoys, because they haven’t been out of the water much.Coincidence, maybe, but the odd time I see them tended they are hauled emptied and reset. I’m not talking about the guy who goes out on a weekend and occasionally has an overnight soak, I’m talking about the guys that are continuously doing it.
As for guys fishing different times of the day, no problem! When they land their prawns shouldn’t they also have their traps with them? Otherwise aren’t they still fishing?
the fog ducker
Well-Known Member
do they ? i dont fish it anymore , do the commys not hit it in May ??
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Yeah I think May is when the commercial crabbing gets going, Easy to get 4 nice size crabs in April much harder by the summer. I don't see many people with prawn taps in the summer so cant imagine it that good ether. From what I was told tho the high productivity of shrimp/prawns in Howe Sound is a bit of anomaly and some think it might have to do with the glass sponge reefs/habitat.
searun
Well-Known Member
One of the reasons DFO states in their rationale for reducing the recreational catch limits is to protect the economic value of the commercial prawn fishery. Taking a closer look at the economics is interesting. In DFO’s Prawn Integrated Fisheries Management Plan (IFMP) they state some interesting facts regarding the economic values of the different fisheries. The wholesale value of commercial prawns in 2016 was $38.1 million, and the processing labour was $2.8 million, totalling $40.9 million.
Compared to the rec fishery, 2010 survey data determined that 14.5% of angler effort is attributable to prawn fishing and that effort is increasing. In 2010, the spending attributable to recreational prawn fishing was $36.4 million. The year over year trend in spending has been $4.9 million/every 5 year window. Applying that rate of economic spending growth to present day, means the current day economic value of the recreational prawn fishery is $44,240,000 million. The value of the recreational prawn fishery eclipses the commercial fishery.
Rec Prawn = $44.2 million (spending attributed to rec fishery within sector) *
Comm Prawn = $40.9 million (wholesale value + processing labour)
*4.9 million/5 years = $980,000/year x 8 years (2018 to 2018) = 7,840,000 + 2010 value of 36.4 million to account for annual growth = $44.2 million
Given the significant value of the recreational fishery, perhaps DFO’s argument or bias toward protecting the perceived value of the commercial fishery by reducing the daily and possession limits of recreational fishers by 50%, is not supported by the facts? Rather, the best use of prawns in supporting economic benefits to Canada from the fishery would be to manage both fisheries in a way that maximizes the economic value added benefits for Canada.
Compared to the rec fishery, 2010 survey data determined that 14.5% of angler effort is attributable to prawn fishing and that effort is increasing. In 2010, the spending attributable to recreational prawn fishing was $36.4 million. The year over year trend in spending has been $4.9 million/every 5 year window. Applying that rate of economic spending growth to present day, means the current day economic value of the recreational prawn fishery is $44,240,000 million. The value of the recreational prawn fishery eclipses the commercial fishery.
Rec Prawn = $44.2 million (spending attributed to rec fishery within sector) *
Comm Prawn = $40.9 million (wholesale value + processing labour)
*4.9 million/5 years = $980,000/year x 8 years (2018 to 2018) = 7,840,000 + 2010 value of 36.4 million to account for annual growth = $44.2 million
Given the significant value of the recreational fishery, perhaps DFO’s argument or bias toward protecting the perceived value of the commercial fishery by reducing the daily and possession limits of recreational fishers by 50%, is not supported by the facts? Rather, the best use of prawns in supporting economic benefits to Canada from the fishery would be to manage both fisheries in a way that maximizes the economic value added benefits for Canada.
Bod
Well-Known Member
Maybe someone on here can educate me on spawner indexing. In parts of area 23 we see a winter closure now. When this first happened I was told by DFO it was closed to protect spawning prawns. I said make it mandatory to release females, after all we've been doing this with crabs for years. Problem solved. No reason to close it anymore. Well, low and behold they did that. BUT, they still close it over winter do to low spawner count. It seems to me the stock will never rebuild itself unless the spawner indexing count is changed. Every year the commercial fleet fishes until they reach there spawner indexing count and then it closes. They come along and do there test fishing in October and guess what. Not enough prawns left to leave it open for recreational fishermen. I think maybe it is time to change the whole system before it's to late for the stock to recover.
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
I took their head prawn manager to task at a fairly recent meeting of the Port SFAC.
In fact I directly challenged their modelling, and then directly asked if he "Knew the definition of Insanity".
He bristled, and refused to comment.
Then went merrily on to explain why the model they use is "correct".
Lord help us...
Nog
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
This is all about politics and the ability of each group to make their case to Ottawa.
Until the sports sector has a permanent lobbiest in Ottawa then be prepared to loose battles in BC.
The Greens and the commercial fleet have lobbyists there.
QUOTE="searun, post: 913160, member: 466"]One of the reasons DFO states in their rationale for reducing the recreational catch limits is to protect the economic value of the commercial prawn fishery. Taking a closer look at the economics is interesting. In DFO’s Prawn Integrated Fisheries Management Plan (IFMP) they state some interesting facts regarding the economic values of the different fisheries. The wholesale value of commercial prawns in 2016 was $38.1 million, and the processing labour was $2.8 million, totalling $40.9 million.
Compared to the rec fishery, 2010 survey data determined that 14.5% of angler effort is attributable to prawn fishing and that effort is increasing. In 2010, the spending attributable to recreational prawn fishing was $36.4 million. The year over year trend in spending has been $4.9 million/every 5 year window. Applying that rate of economic spending growth to present day, means the current day economic value of the recreational prawn fishery is $44,240,000 million. The value of the recreational prawn fishery eclipses the commercial fishery.
Rec Prawn = $44.2 million (spending attributed to rec fishery within sector) *
Comm Prawn = $40.9 million (wholesale value + processing labour)
*4.9 million/5 years = $980,000/year x 8 years (2018 to 2018) = 7,840,000 + 2010 value of 36.4 million to account for annual growth = $44.2 million
Given the significant value of the recreational fishery, perhaps DFO’s argument or bias toward protecting the perceived value of the commercial fishery by reducing the daily and possession limits of recreational fishers by 50%, is not supported by the facts? Rather, the best use of prawns in supporting economic benefits to Canada from the fishery would be to manage both fisheries in a way that maximizes the economic value added benefits for Canada.[/QUOTE]
Until the sports sector has a permanent lobbiest in Ottawa then be prepared to loose battles in BC.
The Greens and the commercial fleet have lobbyists there.
QUOTE="searun, post: 913160, member: 466"]One of the reasons DFO states in their rationale for reducing the recreational catch limits is to protect the economic value of the commercial prawn fishery. Taking a closer look at the economics is interesting. In DFO’s Prawn Integrated Fisheries Management Plan (IFMP) they state some interesting facts regarding the economic values of the different fisheries. The wholesale value of commercial prawns in 2016 was $38.1 million, and the processing labour was $2.8 million, totalling $40.9 million.
Compared to the rec fishery, 2010 survey data determined that 14.5% of angler effort is attributable to prawn fishing and that effort is increasing. In 2010, the spending attributable to recreational prawn fishing was $36.4 million. The year over year trend in spending has been $4.9 million/every 5 year window. Applying that rate of economic spending growth to present day, means the current day economic value of the recreational prawn fishery is $44,240,000 million. The value of the recreational prawn fishery eclipses the commercial fishery.
Rec Prawn = $44.2 million (spending attributed to rec fishery within sector) *
Comm Prawn = $40.9 million (wholesale value + processing labour)
*4.9 million/5 years = $980,000/year x 8 years (2018 to 2018) = 7,840,000 + 2010 value of 36.4 million to account for annual growth = $44.2 million
Given the significant value of the recreational fishery, perhaps DFO’s argument or bias toward protecting the perceived value of the commercial fishery by reducing the daily and possession limits of recreational fishers by 50%, is not supported by the facts? Rather, the best use of prawns in supporting economic benefits to Canada from the fishery would be to manage both fisheries in a way that maximizes the economic value added benefits for Canada.[/QUOTE]
walleyes
Crew Member
It's a jobs thing and a revenue issue. The money trail for the comercial caught prawn doesn't end at the boat or the cleaning table. It goes on to the wholesaler, the trucker, the restaurant then on to the people that buy it. It creates a long revenue trail. When we rec guys get a prawn the revenue trail ends in our cooler lol. If you were to follow the revenue trail of 200 prawns caught comercialy until it hits someone's belly compared to 200 prawn caught by a rec user until it hits someone's belly the numbers wouldn't even be close.
Not supporting the changes people just making a point is all.
Not supporting the changes people just making a point is all.
After it goes to the wholesaler its off to overseas and never to be heard from again. You know how much sporties spend in upkeep to their boats vs commercial that can write it all off. Give me a break.
walleyes
Crew Member
No,, I have no idea what it costs to own and maintain a boat, I only own 4 of them, please in lighten me on the subject.
Lots of wholesalers and seafood places on the coast carry BC Spot Prawns when in season don't try and make it look like every prawn is sold over seas, some are some aren't.
Again,, I'm not sticking up for the comercial fishery just making a point.
Last edited:
[QUOTE="walleyes, post: 913178, If you were to follow the revenue trail of 200 prawns caught comercialy until it hits someone's belly compared to 200 prawn caught by a rec user until it hits someone's belly the numbers wouldn't even be close.[/QUOTE]
Yea your right the revenue trail of sporties 200 prawns is way higher.
Yea your right the revenue trail of sporties 200 prawns is way higher.
CBsqrd
Well-Known Member
https://meridianfarmmarket.ca/blog/bc-spot-prawns-meridian-meats/
“BC spot prawns are very popular in Asia, in fact over 90% of BCs commercial catch end up overseas. Most of the prawns are frozen at sea shortly after being harvested and then exported across the Pacific to Asia. That only leaves approximately 10% available here in BC!”
90% of the commercial catch’s “added value” is captured by shippers/wholesalers/processors/retailers/restaurants/etc. overseas vs virtually 100% of the sport caught catch added value staying in Canada.
Plus, the prawn season is what, 6 - 8 weeks long? Nice bonus for some, but a drop in the bucket (a welcome drop no less) for businesses handing the commercial catch once they come off the boat. I don’t know the numbers, but a lot of sport prawning is done in the salmon/halibut off season and spreads out cash to business throughout the year.
I have no problem with there being a properly managed commercial season, but back to the point of this thread, the proposal from the DFO needs to be based on science (i.e. if we need to rebuild prawn numbers, all sectors need to do their part), and not based on assumptions just to transfer catch from one sector to another.
“BC spot prawns are very popular in Asia, in fact over 90% of BCs commercial catch end up overseas. Most of the prawns are frozen at sea shortly after being harvested and then exported across the Pacific to Asia. That only leaves approximately 10% available here in BC!”
90% of the commercial catch’s “added value” is captured by shippers/wholesalers/processors/retailers/restaurants/etc. overseas vs virtually 100% of the sport caught catch added value staying in Canada.
Plus, the prawn season is what, 6 - 8 weeks long? Nice bonus for some, but a drop in the bucket (a welcome drop no less) for businesses handing the commercial catch once they come off the boat. I don’t know the numbers, but a lot of sport prawning is done in the salmon/halibut off season and spreads out cash to business throughout the year.
I have no problem with there being a properly managed commercial season, but back to the point of this thread, the proposal from the DFO needs to be based on science (i.e. if we need to rebuild prawn numbers, all sectors need to do their part), and not based on assumptions just to transfer catch from one sector to another.
