New Guide Certification Guidelines

Okay, you guys got me confused? Are all of you sure you are talking about the same thing? Some of you are stating 5 gross tons and some are saying 5 gross tonnage, there is a big difference there and everyone knows that, right?

If you are thinking and taking in your boat weight and thinking you are calculating GT... I am not sure that would be correct. GT (gross tonnage - not gross tons)is calculated and based on volume of all enclosed spaces of the ship and has nothing to do with the ship weight, right? I really don't know, I thought, down here, to get a “ships” gross tonnage it could only be calculate through the USCG?

A boat big enough to carry 5GT, is "usually" a pretty big boat and if I am not mistaken...it would be a lot bigger than a 26 feet sport boat, unless maybe some type of a multi hull?

And, I could be completely wrong here, as I have never had to worry about GT of a boat!
 
Its the volume of enclosed spaces we are talking about Charlie.
 
x2 , were beatin the Stank outta this one, lol ,,,

I am going to forward this to Ron , Quick Nav , Owner , Head Instructor , I believe , he is one of the most respected outfits here in Van. I took my courses there last year, I had a quick conversation regarding this all , he was as confused as I , doesn't take much to confuse me , lol , perhaps he may be nice enough to get in on this thread . Serengetti , he still assures me , and the other guides that have been through his program , Our Maritime Vhf is all we need here in BC ,atleast in our situation , again , going by what he told me , I will forward this thread to him , see where it goes , I also question the " Gross Tonnage " Yes , self inspection is where we are at today , until the back log catces up ,they supply us with a checklist.

FD...

kosi99@hotmail.com

IMG_3509.jpg
 
Hey guys , this one is sure getting beat to death!

Charlie you are correct it is gross tonnage(volume) not gross tons (weight) but it is quite feasible that a 26 to 30 foot boat comes in around 5 gross tons. This is my take on what you need to guide a passenger carrying vessel under 5 gross tonnage. This is based on what is required in Victoria, which usually sets the provincial standard.

-Pleasure Craft Operator Card (not required if you have LM)
-ROC-MC with dsc endorsement.
-Med A2
-SVOP (not required if you have a passenger carrying LM endorsement , including hours , not just course)

there is no "grandfathering" of anyone. No certification , not legal plain and simple.I think the SFI may want to check again about just offering MED A3 , as I am fairly certain that Med A2 is required.

While some of the course content is a little debatable , we have a duty to make sure clients are not just safe , but feel safe on passenger carrying vessels in the province. I am not sure how else you can do that without standardized courses and certification.
 
I just did my MED A3 last year and the instructor in Campbell River up here was saying thats all you need for guiding a boat my size under 5 Tons within a 20 mile limit I also am on the list waiting for an inspection since last March. Got my First Aid and Radio and Pleasure Operator Card. It sounds like the SVOP Course would be a good course to take but I am pretty sure from all these discusions it is not necessary for a 24' Boat. Mind you there seems to be alot of confusion on this issue. Now this new course out sounds like a money grab to me but if all profits are going to Coast Guard Auxillary or Hatcheries or Salmon Enhancement then its a good thing. There just seems to be alot of mixed signals going on in this discussion I now again have to check to see if all my t's are crossed.

kittyjuly1409055-1.jpg
 
quote:Originally posted by beemer


Charlie you are correct it is gross tonnage(volume) not gross tons (weight) but it is quite feasible that a 26 to 30 foot boat comes in around 5 gross tons. This is my take on what you need to guide a passenger carrying vessel under 5 gross tonnage. This is based on what is required in Victoria, which usually sets the provincial standard.
Click to expand...
That's where I am getting a little confussed? I do understand it is "quite feasible" for a 26 to 30 foot to come in around 5 gross tons, my Whaler does that, it weighs about 14,000 lbs (loaded), which makes it around 7 gross tons (weight), but its gross tonnage (volume)is not near 5GT?

Overall Length 30’8” 9.35 m
Centerline Length 28’5” 8.66 m
Weight (dry, no engine) 8500 lbs. 3855 kg
Swamped Capacity 5800 lbs. 2630 kg
Maximum Engine Weight 1220 lbs. 556 kg
Maximum Weight, (passengers,engine(s), gear 4300 lbs 1950 kg
Persons 14
Maximum Horsepower 600HP 447 kw
Minimum Horsepower 300 HP 223 kw
Fuel Capacity 296 gal.(U.S.) 1120 L
Water Capacity 40 gal.(U.S.) 151 L

So, just to help an old fart out... what is my GT?
 
I have been following this topic since it started and I am very interested in what the requirements are for being a guide. I spoke to Boris today and here is what I got out of it.

As far as I can tell there are two sets of requirements:
A) For the captain
B) For the boat

For the captain (at minimium) you need: svop, med A3, Roc, Marine first aid.

For the boat you need: 1) To follow the small vessel construction standards from TC. 2) to follow the small vessel regulation TC.
3) to get the c-registry done. 4)To get the new vessel inspected by a TC inspector. (after the initial/first inspection it then can be a self inspection).

The gross volume calculation is the length x breadth x depth(working deck to the keel) Divided by 100 x .67 coefficient(most vessels).

It sounds like to me that there should be many boats that would not pass if they were inspected just on the small vessel construction standard by TC alone.

RO
 
THis may help or confuse!

DISPLACEMENT, LIGHT - The weight of the ship excluding cargo, fuel, ballast, stores, passengers, crew.

DISPLACEMENT, LOADED - The weight of the ship including cargo, passengers, fuel, water, stores, other items necessary for use on a voyage, which brings the ship down to her load draft. Charlie your boat would be about 6.364 tonnes

DEADWEIGHT - The total carring capacity of a ship expressed in tonnes It is the difference between the displacement light and the displacement loaded.

GROSS TONNAGE - The entire internal cubic capacity of the ship expressed in tonnes except certain spaces which are exempted, such as: (1) peak and other tanks for water ballast; (2) spaces above the uppermost continuous deck, such as: open forecastle, bridge and poop, certain light and air spaces, domes of skylights, condenser, anchor gear, steering gear, wheel house, galley and cabins for passengers. This is the definition for a ship.

If the vessel is less than 15 tons, register tonnage, and is equipped with a motor of 10 horsepower or more, the tonnage has to be measured for licensing purposes, which the owner may do in person. For this purpose, an approximate tonnage is usually sufficient and a formula for obtaining the approximate gross tonnage is given below:

LxBxDx.55 divided by 100 + Ixbxd divided by 100

where L = the distance in feet measured from the foremost part of the stem to the after side of the head of the stern post, or, if there is no stern post, to the forward side of the rudder stock at the deck;

B = the extreme breadth of the vessel in feet measured to the outside of the planking, excluding any moulding or rubbing strake;

D = the depth of the vessel in feet amidships, measured from the underside of the deck, or from the upper strake of the hull planking in open boats, to the upper side of the floor timbers at the side of the keelson. (Note: Floor timbers are the bottom solid transverse timber connecting the side frames);

I = total length in feet of all closed-in superstructures;

b = average breadth in feet of all closed-in superstructures;

d = average height above deck in feet of all closed-in superstructures.

It should be noted that if a superstructure has an open side or end, this is not included in the tonnage measurement


I am assuming the I in the formula is the 1 as in the TC formula as this formula is off the TC website.
 
For chartering/guiding the MED A2 course isn't required, only the MED A3, SVOP (as of Nov 09), Operators Card, and VHF Radio. This applies for any commercial vessel under 5 gross tonnes using the calculation contained on TC form to register your vessel. There is no minimum size of vessel, so anyone thinking that they do not require this if the vessel they operate is under 24 feet, they are incorrect.

This stuff is a little confusing, but once you have been through the full inspection it really starts to make sense because the inspectors are really great at explaining what they look for, why it is required, and offer all kinds of valuable advice if you show an interest.

So if TC does the initial inspection you will get a yellow sticker for you vessel, and each year you send in a completed self inspection TC will send you a sticker to affix to the yellow sticker indicating you are compliant for that year. If you are waiting for the TC first inspection and send in your self inspection, you will be issued a provisional blue sticker until the full TC first inspection can be done. As I have noted in prior posts, it will likely take a few years to get inspected after you have filed your request for inspection - and true to form...there is an official form to request and inspection.

Kidding aside, this is a great program and any operator who is serious about being a professional will want to be part of it without having to do so because they got caught. Having said that, I know of plenty of operators who are refusing and this is where enforcement needs to be stepped up. At the moment there is no credible risk of getting caught, fined and having your vessel impounded. Once a few are impounded, I'm sure there will be a gold rush of activity.

And....I hear there will be plenty of high speed off shore capable rigid hull inflatables left over from the Olympics looking for work...so we can expect to see some enforcement.[B)]
 
Can you operate as a guide with only the blue sticker before the initial inspection?
From what it looks like there can be major structural changes to the boat to make it legal.

RO
 
There is a year exception on the vessels well. If built before a certain year (forget what it is) you are excepted from some of the modifications.
 
Whoops, to early in the am. Exempted should be the word.
 
Can you operate as a guide with only the blue sticker before the initial inspection?
From what it looks like there can be major structural changes to the boat to make it legal.

RO

And what Major structural work might you be talking about? Have you had the inspection done and know from experience? Or just word of mouth. I know about all the safety items and the float test but what are you refering to here?

And thanks for the info Searun I think I'm starting to see a little light at the end of the tunnel with your post.



kittyjuly1409055-1.jpg
 
Originally posted by CC Charters

Can you operate as a guide with only the blue sticker before the initial inspection?
From what it looks like there can be major structural changes to the boat to make it legal.

RO

And what Major structural work might you be talking about? Have you had the inspection done and know from experience? Or just word of mouth. I know about all the safety items and the float test but what are you refering to here?

And thanks for the info Searun I think I'm starting to see a little light at the end of the tunnel with your post.



I have not had the inspection done yet but if you look at the small vessel construction standards by TC then you will see what I am talking about. Things like tempered glass, through hull fittings, doors and hatches, and walk through transom doors. It is all in there and if not done as they want then you will have to change it.

Has anyone been through an actual inspection with an inspector? How sticky are they? I have a welded aluminum lifetimer and if it is too much hassel I will say the heck with it.

RO
Click to expand...
 
quote:Originally posted by richmake

I would do some checking on the blue sticker boys
I was under the impression from who I've talked to that under 8m is blue sticker only
no yellow sticker anymore
that's why we switched last year
worth checkin into
if you were over 8m you needed to be inspected not just have the paper work in


www.coastwidesportsfishing.com

http://ca.video.yahoo.com/watch/4726988?fr=yvmtf
Click to expand...

I sure as hell ain't waiting 2 years...it's their fault not mine, I"m still going fishing!!!

www.serengetifishingcharters.com

*NEW VIDEO*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEzuNC59ck
 
quote:Originally posted by rainbow one

Originally posted by CC Charters

Can you operate as a guide with only the blue sticker before the initial inspection?
From what it looks like there can be major structural changes to the boat to make it legal.

RO

And what Major structural work might you be talking about? Have you had the inspection done and know from experience? Or just word of mouth. I know about all the safety items and the float test but what are you refering to here?

And thanks for the info Searun I think I'm starting to see a little light at the end of the tunnel with your post.



I have not had the inspection done yet but if you look at the small vessel construction standards by TC then you will see what I am talking about. Things like tempered glass, through hull fittings, doors and hatches, and walk through transom doors. It is all in there and if not done as they want then you will have to change it.

Has anyone been through an actual inspection with an inspector? How sticky are they? I have a welded aluminum lifetimer and if it is too much hassel I will say the heck with it.

RO
Click to expand...
Oh yeh right on I have to change my through hull fittings to stainless which isnt a bad idea anyways. Thanks.

kittyjuly1409055-1.jpg
Click to expand...
 
quote:Originally posted by CC Charters

quote:Originally posted by rainbow one

Originally posted by CC Charters

Can you operate as a guide with only the blue sticker before the initial inspection?
From what it looks like there can be major structural changes to the boat to make it legal.

RO

And what Major structural work might you be talking about? Have you had the inspection done and know from experience? Or just word of mouth. I know about all the safety items and the float test but what are you refering to here?

And thanks for the info Searun I think I'm starting to see a little light at the end of the tunnel with your post.



I have not had the inspection done yet but if you look at the small vessel construction standards by TC then you will see what I am talking about. Things like tempered glass, through hull fittings, doors and hatches, and walk through transom doors. It is all in there and if not done as they want then you will have to change it.

Has anyone been through an actual inspection with an inspector? How sticky are they? I have a welded aluminum lifetimer and if it is too much hassel I will say the heck with it.

RO
Click to expand...
Oh yeh right on I have to change my through hull fittings to stainless which isnt a bad idea anyways. Thanks.

kittyjuly1409055-1.jpg
Click to expand...

Or brass as well I think...just can't be plastic...which makes sense...log could do some damage to plastic.

www.serengetifishingcharters.com

*NEW VIDEO*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEzuNC59ck
Click to expand...
 
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