New Guide Certification Guidelines
- Thread starter Cuba Libre
- Start date
It appears to be, plus some oversight on the on water training. Personally, it looks to me like a make work project put together by some administrator at PROPEL who had to hire a family member..
I'd say a real guide certification program would include successfully docking a 26 foot boat without crashing into everyone around it, some HAIRY rough water management, and a nice splash in the drink to practice real life search and rescue!
Yes, it's EDUCATIONAL to put on a rubber suit in the MED class, but so far, I have not been shown, or learned a damn thing that wasn't in the Canadian Power Squadrons course that I took a long time ago. SVOP is basically a Power Squadron handbook with CPS scratched out and SVOP written over it in crayon!
If Transport Canada or DFO mandates it, most guys will hold thier nose and take it, but since a local TC inspector had a lengthly conversation with me over exactly what good the SVOP course was, I don't see this being adapted as mainstream.
Last Chance Fishing Adventures
www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com
I'd say a real guide certification program would include successfully docking a 26 foot boat without crashing into everyone around it, some HAIRY rough water management, and a nice splash in the drink to practice real life search and rescue!
Yes, it's EDUCATIONAL to put on a rubber suit in the MED class, but so far, I have not been shown, or learned a damn thing that wasn't in the Canadian Power Squadrons course that I took a long time ago. SVOP is basically a Power Squadron handbook with CPS scratched out and SVOP written over it in crayon!
If Transport Canada or DFO mandates it, most guys will hold thier nose and take it, but since a local TC inspector had a lengthly conversation with me over exactly what good the SVOP course was, I don't see this being adapted as mainstream.
Last Chance Fishing Adventures
www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com
Peahead
Well-Known Member
http://www.go2hr.ca/ApprenticeshipbrTraining/TidalAnglingGuideProgram/tabid/2012/Default.aspx
Link for those that haven't seen details on this pilot project. Thank you Unknown for adding some balance to this topic. I see this as a good idea for the kids starting out working for a lodge but little sense for the experienced guide/charter buisness. I suspect if it did become manditory there would be many 'grandfathered'.
Link for those that haven't seen details on this pilot project. Thank you Unknown for adding some balance to this topic. I see this as a good idea for the kids starting out working for a lodge but little sense for the experienced guide/charter buisness. I suspect if it did become manditory there would be many 'grandfathered'.
Sculpin
Well-Known Member
Great post UNKOWN. I have no problem with increasing our exposure to the rest of the world with "quality and safe</u>" guided fishing trips. I am not a guide but know quite a few. It's is across the board so there is no disadvantage etc. It's like all the folks that b*tch about the small craft operators card. I am glad they finally came about this. Money grab or not it is about time.
"I'm not talkin bout pleasure boatin or day sailin......I'm talkin bout workin for a livin"- Captain Quint
wolf
Well-Known Member
As long as there is a "grandfather" clause im fine with it because I know most lodges etc the guys they have have no certificates or nothing!!! they are green kids with little or no experience...
Hell I was there close to 20 years ago but learned the hard way from doing. And I had a great boss who meantored me some places dont.
Here is the BUT though!!!!! with all the monies we have spent getting all these courses where is the quarentee that they wont shut down our halibut season or salmon season or limits reduced etc etc etc we are making our effort to them wheres the effort on there part all the letters I have personally and the MANY on here wrote to the minister GAIL SHEA (btw waste of of a rep)they finally told me in there own way we are getting tired of your damn letters!!!!!!!
Here they say guiding and tourism brings in 7.5 billion to B.C. and I bet you you could double that amout as you know the goverment figures are so bang on !!!(refer to the gun registry 3 billion and still going !!! when it was suppose to be 3 million)
Until there is something stating that our seasons will be in writing from this day to this day how are we supposed to book people when they anounce a season opening 3 weeks prior????? until that happens I WILL NOT SUPPORT</u> this hopefully they can finally see the light and give us some bit of hope.
Wolf
Hell I was there close to 20 years ago but learned the hard way from doing. And I had a great boss who meantored me some places dont.
Here is the BUT though!!!!! with all the monies we have spent getting all these courses where is the quarentee that they wont shut down our halibut season or salmon season or limits reduced etc etc etc we are making our effort to them wheres the effort on there part all the letters I have personally and the MANY on here wrote to the minister GAIL SHEA (btw waste of of a rep)they finally told me in there own way we are getting tired of your damn letters!!!!!!!
Here they say guiding and tourism brings in 7.5 billion to B.C. and I bet you you could double that amout as you know the goverment figures are so bang on !!!(refer to the gun registry 3 billion and still going !!! when it was suppose to be 3 million)
Until there is something stating that our seasons will be in writing from this day to this day how are we supposed to book people when they anounce a season opening 3 weeks prior????? until that happens I WILL NOT SUPPORT</u> this hopefully they can finally see the light and give us some bit of hope.
Wolf
H
HOOTEY
Guest
Are Guides takeing fishing charters down the Cowichan in a FLY FISHING ONLY area exempt from the regulations?
ITS OUR PASSION TO FISH AND GET OUT OF DOORS...PLEASE...FISH LEGAL OR GET OFF THE RIVER!
ITS OUR PASSION TO FISH AND GET OUT OF DOORS...PLEASE...FISH LEGAL OR GET OFF THE RIVER!
S
snowwhite
Guest
I was in the first group to take the coarse in C.R.I thought it was agood coarse. Some kinks to workout.But hey it was the first go at it? And i think it will weedout the fly by night operations and set a standerd for this industry.Plus if you want to stay in guideing you will need the SVOP and the ROC-MC. Seems like a given to me.Just my too cents worth TightLines Snowwhite
Tailspin
Active Member
Very true Uncle Roy, i was thinking the same.
I had to see if ol Borris was onboard with the TAG program, as suspected he was not clear what i was talking about.
I also did some digging to find out what other courses may come down the pipe in the future that will be deemed mandatory. This stuff is inforced once again by no one unless you sport a c # and decals, allowing the "no fish no pay types" to run around underground pounding out cash deals beside us each day. The way i see it, more will go underground if these money grab courses do not stop popping out of the woodwork.
As for the TAG program, It would ease some of the pain of obtaining the 4 mandatory TC courses to comply for a guy just starting out, or coming out from the underground.
www.tailspincharters.com
I had to see if ol Borris was onboard with the TAG program, as suspected he was not clear what i was talking about.
I also did some digging to find out what other courses may come down the pipe in the future that will be deemed mandatory. This stuff is inforced once again by no one unless you sport a c # and decals, allowing the "no fish no pay types" to run around underground pounding out cash deals beside us each day. The way i see it, more will go underground if these money grab courses do not stop popping out of the woodwork.
As for the TAG program, It would ease some of the pain of obtaining the 4 mandatory TC courses to comply for a guy just starting out, or coming out from the underground.
www.tailspincharters.com
SVOP, med and radio are all required by TC...I suggest all guides get them under their belts. This new program is not mandatory but will allow a new guide without any of the required courses an easy way to get them all and learn specifics about the guiding business.
No matter how much you THINK you know, there is always something new to learn. Case in point; I didn't know that it is illegal to take paying passengers to a fuel dock when you need fuel. Learned at SVOP. Those who do are wide open to a serious liability and criminal issue if anything happens. Guess thats why BC ferries don't stop for fuel on there way across the strait.
I'll bet 90% of all present guides (me included prior to SVOP) would fail any exam based on chart navigation, (bearings, distance and time) and knowledge of all markings found on a marine chart. If you want to call yourself a CAPTAIN take the damn courses!!!
No matter how much you THINK you know, there is always something new to learn. Case in point; I didn't know that it is illegal to take paying passengers to a fuel dock when you need fuel. Learned at SVOP. Those who do are wide open to a serious liability and criminal issue if anything happens. Guess thats why BC ferries don't stop for fuel on there way across the strait.
I'll bet 90% of all present guides (me included prior to SVOP) would fail any exam based on chart navigation, (bearings, distance and time) and knowledge of all markings found on a marine chart. If you want to call yourself a CAPTAIN take the damn courses!!!
Tailspin you are right about a large proportion of guys flying under the radar screen. TC doesn't have the manpower to effectively go out and pursue these guys on there own. But the combination of the cost of taking the courses and the new tax coming July 1 next year will change this I believe. As someone who is keeping up with the requirements (like yourself) and who keeps proper books and collects taxes...do you think I'm going to do nothing and let the fly by nighters have a 12% price advantage over my business...will I bare the costs and time of all the courses and allow the fly by nighters to skip the costs. I think NOT. Many of these guys are supplementing their regular jobs, or pensions and jobs and the costs of owning their boats. I do this full time to pay my mortgage and feed my family.
So while more guys may choose to go further underground, more of us above ground will be forced to deal with them in anyy way possible.
So while more guys may choose to go further underground, more of us above ground will be forced to deal with them in anyy way possible.
As a guide, I can say that I don't think any of my guests really care if I'm certified or what, having a good time seems to bring the biz. That yellow sticker has done nothing for me.
Last Chance Fishing Adventures
www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com
Last Chance Fishing Adventures
www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com
P
powder
Guest
The most educated and safest guides in North America, hmm. Who are the instructors? Are you saying the courses most guides have under their belts, all transport Canada approved are not sufficient? Do I need to sit in your class, pay who knows what,for the chance at SFI marketing me as a guide? Is this not something earned threw reputation and experience? The course possibly was created to start a new business for someone, I guess nothing wrong with trying to create some work for yourself. I don,t think this issue is whats holding back bookings, and it should be a choice if someone wants to partake. Lots of us are happy with our current course providers and a large amount of guides have completed the required transport Canada courses.Some of us I guess think of this new course as someone creating a job for themselves and I suppose that's fine. As an option the course is fine, as mandatory, lots of guides take issue with it.
C
cliffjumper
Guest
There is a very nasty bit in that release. Essentially, it means you're screwed over time... Honestly... ****** out of work.
The term is "best practises". What that means is forget it. Your career is dead unless you have the cash to spend the US budgetary deficit to stay in compliance.
This is government euphemism and jargon which simply means they want to get rid of anyone that doesn't wear the king-sized lodge approved uniform on duty, ride the latest & greatest floating device, move to solar-powered power, and have video on board to document your every move.
In every business this statement has been incorporated, both practitioners and clientele have been screwed by being forced to provide and receive plain vanilla pablum rather than a memorable gourmet experience.
Stop it before it breathes. Abortion is required immediately. With the few bits of good, there is a majority of hieninous. This reflects the vacant intellect and experience of government committees when they "caucous" any issue.
Sincerely, a client of yours.
The term is "best practises". What that means is forget it. Your career is dead unless you have the cash to spend the US budgetary deficit to stay in compliance.
This is government euphemism and jargon which simply means they want to get rid of anyone that doesn't wear the king-sized lodge approved uniform on duty, ride the latest & greatest floating device, move to solar-powered power, and have video on board to document your every move.
In every business this statement has been incorporated, both practitioners and clientele have been screwed by being forced to provide and receive plain vanilla pablum rather than a memorable gourmet experience.
Stop it before it breathes. Abortion is required immediately. With the few bits of good, there is a majority of hieninous. This reflects the vacant intellect and experience of government committees when they "caucous" any issue.
Sincerely, a client of yours.
A
anser albifrons
Guest
Sounds like a little information is a bad thing! The whole rationale for the TAG course is to make it easier and hopefully cheaper for a person to take care of all requirements to legally guide in tidal waters. Also, there is currently no way to protect the sport fishing guide community from being painted by the brush of an accident, fisheries infractions or terrible service by less scrupulous guides out there. The TAG and course rationale was developed by a wide range of stakeholders, guides and charter operators included. The involvement of the ITA and Propel will, aside from guiding the design of a useful training course, will hopefully lead to a course that is cheaper than the SVOP, which is a TC requirement as of November 7, 2009, and will be more relevant to being a guide. Money made will be minimal and likely for the most part by the TC trainers who would not be too concerned if they get 500 - 800/person for the course from the student or from a subsidized payment. Those needing the SVOP will have an option to pay the 500-800 or take the TAG, which includes the SVOP, for a much reduced rate. The TAG course will not be mandatory although parts of it are, the MED A3 and ROC, or will be, the SVOP. Participants will be entitled to challenge the TAG portion of the course if they have experience and will not be required to retake any portions of the TAG they have already. It seems like a good thing and a simplification of the hoops that the industry is having to jump through. Having a standardized set of guidelines will bring good promotional opportunity to guides and independent operators too.
Here's the deal and this is strictly my point of view of course.
The whole business is going through a large majority of change and quite frankly it's getting real old having all these less than knowledgable parties trying to force rules they know nothing about down our throats.
With that being said, industry mandates and policies for the legit business man are not always bad. In this case...if it is enforced and brought about in a timely manner, maybe it's a start.
I read the original post over and over again and it's pretty clear that someone has found themselves a money making project.
Until someone comes forward with some world class enforcment and legal ramifications...none of this crap matters.
My insurance states I'm perfectly legit and so does Transport Canada.
SFI, Tourism BC and Ministry of Tourism, Culture and the Arts...do you really think I care what they say they will do for me if I accept this. I can tell you one thing....you won't get anything from these guy's that will state they can promise longterm fishing opportunities or fair standards.
Like guy's have stated before, our business is based on customer service and past relations....having another sticker on my boat won't change that.
SFI and Tourism BC should concentrate more on what is important here and that's trying to get government policies in place for long term fishing viability...not who's got the right papers or not...how can that possibly have anything to do with either of them.
Anyone know when and what is happening with Halibut next season...instead we get SFI to concentrate on crap like this....
And here's a little story about Tourism BC my friends.
Last year an unnamed group came to the north island looking for freebie/discounted tourism trips/accomodations.They wanted to see the products North Island had to showcase.
After the three day bonanza of free goodies we asked how come they never went fishing.
The head gal said" I had no idea fishing was such a big thing here"
Tourism BC went away without even considering the biggest draw to the North Island by far for tourism and I mean a long shot.
Almost all hotels and restaurants are full of clients for charters, not to go hiking in the morning.
I would really like someone to explain to me over the phone what this program is going to do for my business viability and long term promotional growth and at what cost to me.
Oooops gotta go...someone wants to book another charter and it just so happens they could care less if I have a bloody sticker on my boat or 500 hours of sea time. What they did ask is if I could provide some policies and procedures and proper insurance and testimonials...gladly I'll reply!
www.coastwidesportsfishing.com
http://ca.video.yahoo.com/watch/4726988?fr=yvmtf
The whole business is going through a large majority of change and quite frankly it's getting real old having all these less than knowledgable parties trying to force rules they know nothing about down our throats.
With that being said, industry mandates and policies for the legit business man are not always bad. In this case...if it is enforced and brought about in a timely manner, maybe it's a start.
I read the original post over and over again and it's pretty clear that someone has found themselves a money making project.
Until someone comes forward with some world class enforcment and legal ramifications...none of this crap matters.
My insurance states I'm perfectly legit and so does Transport Canada.
SFI, Tourism BC and Ministry of Tourism, Culture and the Arts...do you really think I care what they say they will do for me if I accept this. I can tell you one thing....you won't get anything from these guy's that will state they can promise longterm fishing opportunities or fair standards.
Like guy's have stated before, our business is based on customer service and past relations....having another sticker on my boat won't change that.
SFI and Tourism BC should concentrate more on what is important here and that's trying to get government policies in place for long term fishing viability...not who's got the right papers or not...how can that possibly have anything to do with either of them.
Anyone know when and what is happening with Halibut next season...instead we get SFI to concentrate on crap like this....
And here's a little story about Tourism BC my friends.
Last year an unnamed group came to the north island looking for freebie/discounted tourism trips/accomodations.They wanted to see the products North Island had to showcase.
After the three day bonanza of free goodies we asked how come they never went fishing.
The head gal said" I had no idea fishing was such a big thing here"
Tourism BC went away without even considering the biggest draw to the North Island by far for tourism and I mean a long shot.
Almost all hotels and restaurants are full of clients for charters, not to go hiking in the morning.
I would really like someone to explain to me over the phone what this program is going to do for my business viability and long term promotional growth and at what cost to me.
Oooops gotta go...someone wants to book another charter and it just so happens they could care less if I have a bloody sticker on my boat or 500 hours of sea time. What they did ask is if I could provide some policies and procedures and proper insurance and testimonials...gladly I'll reply!
www.coastwidesportsfishing.com
http://ca.video.yahoo.com/watch/4726988?fr=yvmtf
Now putting it out there and explained a little more clear makes a bit more sense.
What's the cost and what are the benefits to each individual guide company?
All seems well but without enforcment or policies it's all just paperwork and money down the tubes...trust me I want to be a believer but after the last few rounds of TC inspections and policies you get a little jaded....
I have not gotten one thing but a good concience from being legit.
Government policies have meant nothing.
www.coastwidesportsfishing.com
http://ca.video.yahoo.com/watch/4726988?fr=yvmtf
What's the cost and what are the benefits to each individual guide company?
All seems well but without enforcment or policies it's all just paperwork and money down the tubes...trust me I want to be a believer but after the last few rounds of TC inspections and policies you get a little jaded....
I have not gotten one thing but a good concience from being legit.
Government policies have meant nothing.
www.coastwidesportsfishing.com
http://ca.video.yahoo.com/watch/4726988?fr=yvmtf
Lastchance...your guests will appreciate the sticker and your training if you ever find yourself in a life threatening situation. Everyone coming home safely from a no fault of your own bad situation will justify it all. The opposite outcome results in needless loss of life and only hurts all of us as a group.
searun
Well-Known Member
I agree with Profisher on this. Industry needs to get behind the whole notion of ensuring there is a licensing</u> system in place to weed out the relics who do not have the proper safety training, insurance and safe vessels.
How many more tourists have to die in accidents (one died this year at Dent Island) before TC puts the hammer down? Time for all of us who operate charter vessels to do the right thing and support compliance to the mandatory safety training currently in the Regulations.
This course as far as I'm concerned misses the mark on what is necessary. What needs to happen is guides must be properly trained and certified as Charter Captains....and LICENSED! As license system would provide a method under which folks who are not adequately trained could be enforced off the water. So I'm 100% behind the current requirements for SVOP, MED A3, and Radio Operator Certifications, which would lead to a Charter Captain's License......but not a charm school course.
Searun
How many more tourists have to die in accidents (one died this year at Dent Island) before TC puts the hammer down? Time for all of us who operate charter vessels to do the right thing and support compliance to the mandatory safety training currently in the Regulations.
This course as far as I'm concerned misses the mark on what is necessary. What needs to happen is guides must be properly trained and certified as Charter Captains....and LICENSED! As license system would provide a method under which folks who are not adequately trained could be enforced off the water. So I'm 100% behind the current requirements for SVOP, MED A3, and Radio Operator Certifications, which would lead to a Charter Captain's License......but not a charm school course.
Searun
wolf
Well-Known Member
Robert Im just saying if we need all this stuff which I think is crap I need one more which im taking in dec and then ill have everything then what ??? what will be the next thing be???? it seems they "invent" stuff on a whime!!!!
If us guides need all this stuff then I would want something for everyone else to get as well and do some enforcement I cant tell you how many times I see guys broken down or ran out of gas out fishing that are NOT guide or charter operators if we are forced to made accountable for the safty of everyone on the water why doesnt everyone else have to be??? hmmmmm.
In sooke(area) there is maybe 20 to 30 guides but about 500 sportfishers and not once have I seen our "fleet" of guys ever get into trouble most of the time we work very well together but its like an everyday occurance of nubies that go out with crap equipment with no safty gear etc the things i saw this year was the worst maybe im paying more attention I dont know.
For instance im back at the dock after the morning trip a little boat lauches as it is calm at SS 2 guys and 2 girls pile into this 16ft sangster or something with a tiny windshield and I see there is no life jackets but plenty of beer in the cooler. as they pass I tell them you might not to want to go its a bit rough when I came in as it was a due westerly with an out going tide and in here its not getting it. Didnt you look or hear the forecast???? nope he says its calm out!!! well its supposed to be a gale by the afternoon I tell him!!!AHHHH this boat is ok in the rough stuff.
less than 30 mins they are back girls look like they went through hell and white as a ghost. i didnt say a word BUT this happens all the time.
We as guides or charter ops know the limits most people dont so whats the soulution if we are getting these courses crammed down our thoats then there has to be something to "educate" these people as well especially for people who own their own boats as there the ones driving most times and taking "buddies out"
I know almost every boat out there now has a VHF so why doesnt joe public need that course???there using the radio just like me sometimes more and i hear them swear on it etc.
Point is its fishing we are not performing life saving sugery!!!! if you really look at it as a whole big picture </u> now everyone really think about this long and hard!!!!!
All of you here have done this and anyone one who has taken a relative or a friend out who has never been fishing in there life you are just as accountable as us as the person you are taken out has not a clue what to do and you as a "boat owner" if ever anything happens would get sued right!!!!!!
And BTW pro fisher I thought you worked as a Fire extinguisher tech in the off season as your full time job????? as I see your intials on alot of them????? just wondering????
thanks Wolf
If us guides need all this stuff then I would want something for everyone else to get as well and do some enforcement I cant tell you how many times I see guys broken down or ran out of gas out fishing that are NOT guide or charter operators if we are forced to made accountable for the safty of everyone on the water why doesnt everyone else have to be??? hmmmmm.
In sooke(area) there is maybe 20 to 30 guides but about 500 sportfishers and not once have I seen our "fleet" of guys ever get into trouble most of the time we work very well together but its like an everyday occurance of nubies that go out with crap equipment with no safty gear etc the things i saw this year was the worst maybe im paying more attention I dont know.
For instance im back at the dock after the morning trip a little boat lauches as it is calm at SS 2 guys and 2 girls pile into this 16ft sangster or something with a tiny windshield and I see there is no life jackets but plenty of beer in the cooler. as they pass I tell them you might not to want to go its a bit rough when I came in as it was a due westerly with an out going tide and in here its not getting it. Didnt you look or hear the forecast???? nope he says its calm out!!! well its supposed to be a gale by the afternoon I tell him!!!AHHHH this boat is ok in the rough stuff.
less than 30 mins they are back girls look like they went through hell and white as a ghost. i didnt say a word BUT this happens all the time.
We as guides or charter ops know the limits most people dont so whats the soulution if we are getting these courses crammed down our thoats then there has to be something to "educate" these people as well especially for people who own their own boats as there the ones driving most times and taking "buddies out"
I know almost every boat out there now has a VHF so why doesnt joe public need that course???there using the radio just like me sometimes more and i hear them swear on it etc.
Point is its fishing we are not performing life saving sugery!!!! if you really look at it as a whole big picture </u> now everyone really think about this long and hard!!!!!
All of you here have done this and anyone one who has taken a relative or a friend out who has never been fishing in there life you are just as accountable as us as the person you are taken out has not a clue what to do and you as a "boat owner" if ever anything happens would get sued right!!!!!!
And BTW pro fisher I thought you worked as a Fire extinguisher tech in the off season as your full time job????? as I see your intials on alot of them????? just wondering????
thanks Wolf
wolf
Well-Known Member
Searun yes one person died last year which is a great shame but what about the normal people you hear die from the water thats 1 person in how many years???that is a pretty safe record I would say.
What about them people that flipped there boat at nitnat narrows this year NON guided and shouldnt have even tried if all 4 of those people perished would you want something in place for sportfisherman as well then or is this incident ok as they didnt die????????
US as a whole you and me are getting so over regulated in our world soon you wont be able to go take a crap untill you pass a proper course on wiping up or down im sure theres a right and a wrong way and im sure they will tell us soon in a new course
wolf
What about them people that flipped there boat at nitnat narrows this year NON guided and shouldnt have even tried if all 4 of those people perished would you want something in place for sportfisherman as well then or is this incident ok as they didnt die????????
US as a whole you and me are getting so over regulated in our world soon you wont be able to go take a crap untill you pass a proper course on wiping up or down im sure theres a right and a wrong way and im sure they will tell us soon in a new course
wolf
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