Interesting salmon article

quote:Originally posted by richmake

I am pretty sure I am not complaining, I can still fish for whatever and whenever I wish. Why would I want that to change? </u>

The above statement say's it all....seperate rules and regulations for different enthnic or racial background...
I guess I'm not in support of that....ever...


www.coastwidesportsfishing.com


Racism to the max is exactly what it is. Natives always complain that they are the victims of racism and discriminated against...yet look at Fish Assassins comments and it becomes abundantly obvious that it is actual they (not generalizing...a few give the bunch a bad name) who are being racist.

This thread is no longer on track...but I think it brings up a good point...and I can't idly sit back and see comments like that and not give a piece of my mind....absolutely ridiculous!

www.serengetifishingcharters.com
 
quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin

quote:The above statement say's it all....seperate rules and regulations for different enthnic or racial background...
I guess I'm not in support of that....ever...

So your suggesting that you don't agree with the way your Country was founded? What kind of Canadian are you supposed to be?

I think its best if we agree to disagree:D

Take only what you need.

quote:You and a few other people here don't seem to get it,

Oh, I get it! Sorry you don't!

I am not slamming anyone or any race... Just hoping "we all" do something to stop the decline of the salmon fishery!

BTW... are you Canadian or Native American? But, the more important question is what can YOU</u> do help stop the decline in OUR fishery? Yes, I did say "OUR"! What happens in Canada does effect the U.S.! I am neither. I am just an outsider who would like to see the Canadian fishery continue... and I don't mean continue to decline! If ALL help stop the decline of the Canadian Fishery... then the fishery here in the U.S. will also benefit!


edited for spelling
 
The whole problem is the supreme court of Canada, too many left wing Liberal justices appointed by Trudeau and Chretien, so until they die nothing is going to change and unless we get some Conservative appointments the white native is screwed.
 
Canadian Native American, If I was a US Native American I could catch 50% of the TAC and sell it.



quote:Racism to the max is exactly what it is. Natives always complain that they are the victims of racism and discriminated against...yet look at Fish Assassins comments and it becomes abundantly obvious that it is actual they (not generalizing...a few give the bunch a bad name) who are being racist.

This thread is no longer on track...but I think it brings up a good point...and I can't idly sit back and see comments like that and not give a piece of my mind....absolutely ridiculous!

What is ridiculous is you telling me that stating facts about the Douglas Treaty is racist. In Our treaty we are able to hunt and fish as before settlement. We drill this into our children so that they know that they have special rights in this land. Excuse me if I exercise those Creator</u> given rights from time to time. Blaming Natives for the demise of salmon stocks, after the white people have directly and indirectly made billions of dollars while sending the salmon stocks into near collapse, doesn't seem racist to you I suppose? There are a good majority of us that "ONLY TAKE WHAT WE NEED" but yet we all get painted with the same brush. Right RS? Those guys someone saw dumping the fish from their pickup truck were probably crack heads or something anyways. I hate to say that, but I can't think of any good reason for that type of waste. Here's a good example of waste for you;

My Family has a long long history on this coast I am a direct descendent of King and Queen Freezie. My Grandfather happened to end up being the youngest Tug Boat Captain on the Coast at age 17. He was born in 1897. One of his very first jobs he ever got was working at a cannery in Victoria. He used to tell me stories about the amount of fish that came in. He also told me that from time to time something would go wrong with the machine (iron chink?) or any number of things that would cause the spoiling of thousands and thousands of salmon waiting to get processed. He told me time and time again he would be called to take barge loads of unprocessed salmon out in into the Victoria Waterfront and dump them. I couldn't help but think that this was just one of many canneries on the coast and I'm sure they all had their trials and errors. So perhaps my views might be a little jaded on the demise of Salmon stocks, but they are based on eye witness accounts.


Take only what you need.
 
,
Originally posted by The Fish Assassin

"Canadian Native American, If I was a US Native American I could catch 50% of the TAC and sell it."

Does treaty make this right though???????? (don't think so)

]

"What is ridiculous is you telling me that stating facts about the Douglas Treaty is racist. In Our treaty we are able to hunt and fish as before settlement."

Don't think there were a lot of seine boats, outboard motors and state of the art fishing equipment, riffles,etc before settlement.

What irks me is going to work everyday, paying 60% of my income in tax after all is said and done(of which aboriginal natives receive a good chunk) and hearing how there creator gives them all these rights.

As a white BC native.(Family has been here since 1885) Where are my rights. Don't I have the right to feed my family. I don't even have the right to spend my hard earned money were I nead to live a good quality of life. For most of us younger guys it.s paycheck to paycheck. WE can't afford luxurys like store bought salmon, meat etc.
(so I hunt and Fish when Im allowed)
I believe a lot less political bull$hit & squabelling amonst races & a little equality amongst people's would benifit all people and all fish in the year 2008.

Gotta go to work now.

I'm setting priorities & making time for fishing.
 
mr assassin, i'll be willing to bet that everyone who has posted here can tell stories about the past and the utter lack of care for our natural resources. ever been to minnesota, wisconsin or michigan?? they used to have forests that rivaled those in our neck of the woods.

the simple point here, is you should be drilling your children with a sense of respect for the resources we have left. teaching them rape and run practices with regard to our functionaly extinct anadramous fish runs, becasue it's their 'right', should be thought about long and hard. what you demonstrate, however, is the utter lack of concern indiginous peoples express, in today's world, for these resources. the myth that indidinous peoples are taking care of resources for their grandchildren is pure marketing hype, your last post is testiment to that. and with that, you join the scene your grandfather related to you regarding wanton waste. (i have witnessed native fishermen on the columbia r. haul pickup load after pickup load up a side canyon and dump them in a ditch. reason, we had too many to sell and no one wanted them! and i guess pointing this out makes me a racist, ah-ha!)

the fact is, everyone, and i do mean everyone, who fishes has a responsibiity for the well being of this resource. this is not the 1800's, we are in a new century. in THIS century, anadramous fishes are on the brink of extinction for a whole bunch of reasons. the one immediate action that can be taken is selective fishing and a reduction in quotas by all concerned with fishing. even with selective fishing, there is going to be mortality for released fishes. but we have no choice if we want to see anadramous fishes continue into the next century.

if we fish, ALL of us, must concerve. if you are a ceremonial and subsistence fisherperson, no worries, those are your traditional rights. i just hope you have a way of preseving those C&S rights while everyone else is killing the last of a species.
 
wow, this one is getting off topic.

i hear both sides... i wonder if we can come to some common ground or understanding.

1. whites are responsible for the decline of pacific salmon stocks. we can argue about the effect native fisheries in the last some odd years but i don't think anyone can argue that the commercial fishery in the last 100 or so years is reponsible for the greatest reduction in salmon populations

2. the fish assassin should be allowed to "fish for whatever and whenever" he wishes - i think/hope most of us don't have a problem with a food fishery - the question i think from the 'other' side is whether first nations people should have the right/be able to sell whatever fish they catch (we could argues this til the cows come home)

3. finger pointing at this point isn't really going to get us anywhere - ALL of us need to work together to save salmon stocks - no matter who is to blame know and then, no matter who had what rights first, if we don't all do/give up something soon we're gonna be equally frucked</u> and the finger pointing will never end
 
Gona steel a few words from good old George Thorogood:



"Together we stand, divided we fall, Black, White, Red, and Yellow".




"Come on now people lets get on the ball & work together""Come on come on lets work together come on people"


"Cause togther we will stand every Boy, Girl, Woman,and Man and fish".

"SO COME ON NOW PEOPLE".

I'm setting priorities & making time for fishing.
 
Taken from: Journey of Mankind
Over 160,000 years ago modern humans – **** sapiens- lived in Africa. The earliest know archaeological evidence of our DNA and chromosome ancestors is found in East Africa. A group traveled across a green Sahara 125,000 years ago, through the open northern gate, up the Nile to the Levant. 85,000 years ago a group crossed the mouth of the Red Sea – the Gates of Grief – prior to traveling as beach combers along the southern coast of the Arabian Peninsula toward India. All non-African people are descended from this group. From Sri Lanka they continued along the Indian Ocean coast to western Indonesia then a landmass attached to Asia. Still following the coast they moved around Borneo to South China. Following the devastation of the Indian sub-continent repopulation took place. Groups crossed by boat from Timor into Australia and also from Borneo into New Guinea. There was intense cold in the lower Pieniglacial in the north. Dramatic warming of the climate 52,000 years ago meant groups were finally able to move north up the Fertile Crescent returning to the Levant. From there they moved into Europe via the Bosporus from 50,000 years ago. Groups from the East Asian coast moved west through the central Asia steppes towards Northeast Asia. From Pakistan they moved into Central Asia and Indo-China through Tibet into the Qing-hai Plateau. Central Asians moved west towards Eastern Europe, north into the Arctic Circle and joined East Asians to the spread into northeast Eurasia. 25,000 – 22,000 BC a group crossed the Bering land bridge connecting Siberia to Alaska, either passed through the ice corridor reaching Meadowcroft before the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) or took the coastal route. During the last Ice Age Northern Europe, Asia, and North America were de-populated, with isolated surviving groups locked in refuges. In North America the ice corridor closed and the coastal route froze. The LGM 18000 years ago, in North America, south of the ice, groups continued to develop diversify in language, culture & genes as they crossed into South America. Continued amelioration of the global climate, Coastal route recommenced, Monte Verde, Chile – human habitation dating 11,790 to 13,565 years ago. Reoccupation of North America 12,500 years ago came from south of the ice going north. In the sub-Arctic 11,500 years ago people moved out from the Beringean refuge to become Eskimo.

Taken from: Wikipedia
Aboriginal peoples in Canada
Aboriginal people in Canada, also known as First Nations, Inuit and Métis, are people who belong to recognized indigenous groups in the Canadian Constitution Act, 1982, sections 25 and 35, respectively as First Nations, Métis, and Inuit. As of the 2006 Canadian Census there were over 1,172,790 Aboriginal people in Canada, 3.8% of the country's total population. This comprises 698,025 people of First Nations descent, 389,785 Métis, and 50,485 Inuit. National representative bodies of Aboriginal people in Canada include the Assembly of First Nations, the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami, the Métis National Council, the Native Women's Association of Canada, the National Association of Friendship Centers and the Congress of Aboriginal People. These bodies however are not recognized by some indigenous people in Canada as representing their interests. Some such indigenous people prefer to rely upon their traditional laws and governance and pick their representation accordingly. Some indigenous people assert that their sovereign rights have not been extinguished, and point to the Royal Proclamation of 1763 which is mentioned in the Canadian Constitution Act, 1982, Section 25, as well as to the British North America Act and the 1969 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties to which Canada and Great Britain are signatories, in support of this claim. The Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples was an important commission undertaken by the Government of Canada in the 1990s. It assessed past government policies toward Aboriginal people, such as residential schools, and provided many policy recommendations to the government. However, many recommendations made by RCAP have not been implemented by the federal government to date. Under the Employment Equity Act, Aboriginal people are a designated group along with women, visible minorities, and persons with disabilities. They are not considered a visible minority under the Act and in the view of Statistics Canada.

Now, taken from: Webster’s Dictionary
Indigenous:
1 : having originated in and being produced, growing, living, or occurring naturally in a particular region or environment &lt;indigenous plants&gt; &lt;the indigenous culture&gt;

Native:
Middle English natif, from Middle French, from Latin nativus, from natus, past participle of nasci to be born — more at NATION Date: 14th century. Belonging to a particular place by birth &lt;native to Wisconsin&gt; Native American A term dating back to 1737: a member of any of the aboriginal peoples of the western hemisphere ; especially : a Native American of North America and especially the United States . belonging to or associated with one by birth. synonyms NATIVE , INDIGENOUS , ENDEMIC , ABORIGINAL mean belonging to a locality. NATIVE implies birth or origin in a place or region and may suggest compatibility with it &lt;native tribal customs&gt;. INDIGENOUS applies to species or races and adds to NATIVE the implication of not having been introduced from elsewhere &lt;maize is indigenous to America&gt;. ENDEMIC implies being peculiar to a region &lt;edelweiss is endemic in the Alps&gt;.

My point!
By all scientific facts and definitions; and since the entire human race did start and migrate throughout the world from Africa… I am as much of an Indigenous, Native, American as any member or any other group of people!

Now can we all do something to save our fish!
 
Well, it only took ten days of bickering to come full circle!

IMHO, if you go back and read the article that started this thread, it identifies inadequate management of the resource as the cause of the over-fishing leading to poor escapements. When the light turns green for fishing, I, like most people, go fishing. I stay within the limits set for me by the managers. When the light turns red, I, like most people, stop. Anyone who goes over their limit or continues to fish when the light turns red, is a poacher. If I, or anyone else, over-fishes when the light is still green, who's to blame? It it me or the ones in charge of the light?

What I think the article on the research is implying is all the work enhancing weak runs or repairing the damage done to fish habitat will come to naught without proper management. So along with rolling up our sleeves for more enhancement efforts and swallowing the bitter pills of lower limits and reduced fishing opportunities, we need to also make it abundently clear to DFO that we want better management.
 
thanks charlie. i was reading that the six women who crossed the ice bridge are the mothers of all of those in north america. those women came from my ancestral home land, my place of origin. i guess i should be headed down to the local tribal HQ to claim my rights.

cuttlefish, the point, i think, of this thread is that the forcasts for run returns has been statistically in error from the first. i know down south in WA, the model in use is in error anywhere from 35% to 65%. if quotas are set with data of such little utility, of course the runs are going to be overfished, and thats exactly what we are witnessing.

i believe, perhaps someone can verify, that AK has modified their procedures looking at returns to determine next season quotas. and while this is a year off, it does allow managers to see just how well runs are doing in specific drainages before opening the flood gates to harvest. that seems way better to me that having a few pints and throwing darts at quota numbers to placate commercial interests.
 
Back
Top