Interesting salmon article

This is the recipe for saving our salmon.
1 Seine fishing becomes a bad history story. Federal government buys all licences back. Yes they have the money.
2 When the salmon are in the river they are not bothered or disturbed by ANYONE.
3 Stop herring fishing, more buyback,
so be it.
4 No logging within 500 yards of any fish bearing river or stream.
That's my take on the four biggest reasons we're at a critical point whether our salmon will survive for future generations or not. Anybody have anything else to add? Lyle
 
I would agree for the most part, i think we would have to redefine fish bearing stream. salmon bearing maybe simply because every stream is fish bearing and with a 500 yard buffer no logging would get done at all. I wouldnt mind seeing the gill net fishery go as well.

as far as the no fishing in the rivers i would love to see that however if im not mistaken most rivers have been studied and river capacities have been established where they have found the amount of fish that can spawn in a river before other spawners begin to dig up redds of previous spawners. this would be why they allow some rivers
to be fished in the fall.

I wouldnt mind seeing a hatchery only retention for both chinook and coho for a few years to help increase the numbers of spawners.

Any thoughts?
 
fish-in: hatchery only retention on both coho and chinook would pretty much mean the end to salmon sportfishing. Canadian hatcheries only clip the few fish that are tagged and therefore you cannot distinguish between wild and hatchery fish. The only salmon it would leave for the sporties to catch would be the clipped ones from US hatcheries - which hang out here on southern VI in the winter only.

If the river openings were truly based on the achievement of the river capacity then there should have been no openings this year on any VI stream. But yet there were and are...
 
Originally posted by reel easy

This is the recipe for saving our salmon.
1 Seine fishing becomes a bad history story. Federal government buys all licences back. Yes they have the money.
2 When the salmon are in the river they are not bothered or disturbed by ANYONE.
3 Stop herring fishing, more buyback,
so be it.
4 No logging within 500 yards of any fish bearing river or stream.
That's my take on the four biggest reasons we're at a critical point whether our salmon will survive for future generations or not. Anybody have anything else to add? Lyle


5) Trawlers would have to go as well. Scraping the ocean floor can't be good. Ha, maybe we'de get some cod back to. Comercial fishery neads to be reduced to trolling only. And they nead to get a grip on the damages currently being caused by farming

I'm setting priorities & making time for fishing.
 
quote:There were several tribes that voulantarily (Or however you spell it) reduced or abstained from their ceremonial fisheries

All the tribes this year who intercept Fraser Sockeye in the Ocean laid off of them. Mostly because they had a poor return due to very long standing overfishing by commercial and sport fishermen.

Take only what you need.

quote:When the salmon are in the river they are not bothered or disturbed by ANYONE

I agree except that the reason Natives live on the Rivers is to access salmon when they are returning. Are you talking compensation for the infringement of their rights then?
 
I agree except that the reason Natives live on the Rivers is to access salmon when they are returning. Are you talking compensation for the infringement of their rights then?

Unfortunately you are more concerned with your "Right" to take
fish than you are with the dwindling stocks :(
 
quote:Originally posted by r.s craven

I agree except that the reason Natives live on the Rivers is to access salmon when they are returning. Are you talking compensation for the infringement of their rights then?

Unfortunately you are more concerned with your "Right" to take
fish than you are with the dwindling stocks :(

You hit the nail on the head there Craven [8]
 
No, I'm talking about the salmon's rights to reproduce without being disturbed.
 
quote:mr assassin, i have to just shake my head in disbelief when i read what you type.

what we are talking about is commercial harvest of fishes by native and non-native commercial fishermen.

Well perhaps you either read a different article then me or you’re adding your own views to it. This topic is about over fishing by commercial and sports, there is no mention in the article about terminal Native fisheries. That is what makes this a good article. Finally someone puts the blame where it belongs. So don't try to ruin a good article by adding your own narrow minded views on this subject. This article was written based on data over a 55-year period. I guess your welcome to ignore the facts but it's completely your prerogative. It is no real surprise to me that DFO manages with tainted information. If they had listend to First Nations we wouldn't be in as bad a situation as we are in now. There is no-one in BC that relys so heavily on the salmon more so than Natives. It is an itegral part of our culture. When we told DFO to stop the sports fishing and Commercial fishing or the stocks would collapse it always fell on deaf ears. So now that the **** is hitting the fan is is almost commical to watch people like yourself blame Natives at all for the demise of Salmon. This is simply a case of I told you so!!

Take only what you need.
 
quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin

quote:mr assassin, i have to just shake my head in disbelief when i read what you type.

what we are talking about is commercial harvest of fishes by native and non-native commercial fishermen.

Well perhaps you either read a different article then me or you’re adding your own views to it. This topic is about over fishing by commercial and sports, there is no mention in the article about terminal Native fisheries. That is what makes this a good article. Finally someone puts the blame where it belongs. So don't try to ruin a good article by adding your own narrow minded views on this subject. This article was written based on data over a 55-year period. I guess your welcome to ignore the facts but it's completely your prerogative. It is no real surprise to me that DFO manages with tainted information. If they had listend to First Nations we wouldn't be in as bad a situation as we are in now. There is no-one in BC that relys so heavily on the salmon more so than Natives. It is an itegral part of our culture. When we told DFO to stop the sports fishing and Commercial fishing or the stocks would collapse it always fell on deaf ears. So now that the **** is hitting the fan is is almost commical to watch people like yourself blame Natives at all for the demise of Salmon. This is simply a case of I told you so!!

Take only what you need.

reading your statements on here is like watching train wreck....
You are totally supportive of only one user group and completely wrong in so many ways.
It's not that you stand up for what you believe right...it's how you portray the First Nations in the year 2008 and beyond as victims in society and it's just starting to get old on the board...
just my 2 cents

www.coastwidesportsfishing.com
 
quote:Originally posted by richmake

quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin

quote:mr assassin, i have to just shake my head in disbelief when i read what you type.

what we are talking about is commercial harvest of fishes by native and non-native commercial fishermen.

Well perhaps you either read a different article then me or you’re adding your own views to it. This topic is about over fishing by commercial and sports, there is no mention in the article about terminal Native fisheries. That is what makes this a good article. Finally someone puts the blame where it belongs. So don't try to ruin a good article by adding your own narrow minded views on this subject. This article was written based on data over a 55-year period. I guess your welcome to ignore the facts but it's completely your prerogative. It is no real surprise to me that DFO manages with tainted information. If they had listend to First Nations we wouldn't be in as bad a situation as we are in now. There is no-one in BC that relys so heavily on the salmon more so than Natives. It is an itegral part of our culture. When we told DFO to stop the sports fishing and Commercial fishing or the stocks would collapse it always fell on deaf ears. So now that the **** is hitting the fan is is almost commical to watch people like yourself blame Natives at all for the demise of Salmon. This is simply a case of I told you so!!

Take only what you need.

reading your statements on here is like watching train wreck....
You are totally supportive of only one user group and completely wrong in so many ways.
It's not that you stand up for what you believe right...it's how you portray the First Nations in the year 2008 and beyond as victims in society and it's just starting to get old on the board...
just my 2 cents

www.coastwidesportsfishing.com

x a million

www.serengetifishingcharters.com
 
all native americans have been screwed by the white man, no questions in that regard. C&S fishing, you bet, i have zero arguement against that taking.

that said, once you step into the commercial harvest of anadromous fishes, for sale at your local market, then all harvesters should be following exactly the same set of rules and regulations.

that is my only bone of contention, hopefully this short post will help clarify exactly where i am coming from with regard to commercial harvest.

what gets 'old' on this thread is those who continue to not recognize that overharvest, no matter who is doing it, is one of the primary reasons for the decline of anadramous fishes.
 
quote:Originally posted by SerengetiGuide

quote:Originally posted by richmake

quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin

quote:mr assassin, i have to just shake my head in disbelief when i read what you type.

what we are talking about is commercial harvest of fishes by native and non-native commercial fishermen.


Well perhaps you either read a different article then me or you’re adding your own views to it. This topic is about over fishing by commercial and sports, there is no mention in the article about terminal Native fisheries. That is what makes this a good article. Finally someone puts the blame where it belongs. So don't try to ruin a good article by adding your own narrow minded views on this subject. This article was written based on data over a 55-year period. I guess your welcome to ignore the facts but it's completely your prerogative. It is no real surprise to me that DFO manages with tainted information. If they had listend to First Nations we wouldn't be in as bad a situation as we are in now. There is no-one in BC that relys so heavily on the salmon more so than Natives. It is an itegral part of our culture. When we told DFO to stop the sports fishing and Commercial fishing or the stocks would collapse it always fell on deaf ears. So now that the **** is hitting the fan is is almost commical to watch people like yourself blame Natives at all for the demise of Salmon. This is simply a case of I told you so!!

Take only what you need.

reading your statements on here is like watching train wreck....
You are totally supportive of only one user group and completely wrong in so many ways.
It's not that you stand up for what you believe right...it's how you portray the First Nations in the year 2008 and beyond as victims in society and it's just starting to get old on the board...
just my 2 cents

www.coastwidesportsfishing.com

x a million

www.serengetifishingcharters.com

X 3
Commercial... is Commercial and the selling of fish by anyone should be considered commercial! I don't care what nationality!

But that aside, when you read articles like the one below everyone needs get involved! I don’t recommend shutting it down for the commercial fleet (including the selling of fish by Natives), the natives, or the sport fisherman… I recommend monitoring the stocks and shutting them down completely for all when necessary giving the stock a chance to rebuild. If we don’t the only thing left will be “hatchery” and “farmed” fish!

“One-Quarter of World's Sockeye Salmon Face Extinction Press Releases

International Union for the Conservation of Nature Adds Pacific Sockeye to Global Red List of Threatened Species. Most endangered runs in British Columbia.

Vancouver, B.C./ Portland, OR, USA, October 6, 2008

The International Union for the Conservation of Nature (IUCN) today placed Pacific Sockeye Salmon on the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. The Red List is the international standard for measuring species' risk of extinction.

The listing is based on IUCN's first global assessment of the commercially and recreationally valuable sockeye, whose native range covers the Pacific Rim from southern Russia to Oregon. Most of the critically endangered sockeye runs are in British Columbia, where dramatic declines have occurred in stretches of the Fraser and Skeena Rivers.

"Placing Pacific sockeye Salmon on the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species should be a wakeup call to all the nations and peoples of the Pacific Rim," said Guido Rahr, President of the Wild Salmon Center, which works to conserve a network of Wild Salmon ecosystems in Japan, Russia, Canada and the United States. "While many runs of sockeye in Alaska and Russia remain strong, certain runs in British Columbia and the U.S. Pacific Northwest are at high risk of extinction."

B.C. runs listed as threatened or endangered.

The majority of threatened subpopulations are in British Columbia, according to the Salmonid Specialist Group (SSG), which prepared the IUCN Assessment. Subpopulations at risk include those in sections of the Fraser and Skeena Rivers, as well as smaller rivers in the southern coast of the province. Many have experienced steep declines, with runs in some areas declining by more than 80 percent in the last three generations (or twelve years). Several of the runs were listed as critically endangered.

"Not since the devastating landslide at Hell's Gate in the Fraser River in the early 1900's have B.C.'s Sockeye Salmon been at this level of risk," said Dr. Pete Rand, the lead assessor on the IUCN report. "And the risk is not limited to the Fraser, but includes many populations along coastal waters and larger interior watersheds, particularly the famed Skeena River."

Although many factors have contributed to the sockeye's decline, current threats include: mixed-stock fishing, poor ocean survival rates that may be linked to global climate change, habitat deterioration, and effects from hatcheries and artificial spawning channels.

"The deteriorating situation for western Canada's sockeye has been suspected for some time," said Dr. Mart Gross of the University of Toronto. "The IUCN assessment provides the evidence that some populations are rapidly approaching extinction."

While sockeye as a species does not face global extinction, the decline and potential loss of so many subpopulations diminishes its genetic diversity and resilience in the face of environmental threats. Regionally, the loss or decline of sockeye subpopulations could hurt Salmon-dependent economies and ecosystems.”
 
quote:But that aside, when you read articles like the one below everyone needs get involved! I don’t recommend shutting it down for the commercial fleet (including the selling of fish by Natives), the natives, or the sport fisherman… I recommend monitoring the stocks and shutting them down completely for all when necessary giving the stock a chance to rebuild. If we don’t the only thing left will be “hatchery” and “farmed” fish!

You and a few other people here don't seem to get it, we are not on equal ground when it comes to salmon, if you don't believe me... ask the Supreme Court. Perhaps you should revisit Rights Vs. Privilege. The Federal Government (regardless of who is in power) has a fiduciary responsibly to ensure that our rights are protected. They have no such mandate for sport fishing or commercial fishing. And let’s get one point clear here there are two types of Native Fishing FSC and commercial. In bad return years I would have no problem keeping the commercial nets out of the water, which is a privilege fishery. On the other hand if there isn't enough fish to catch for FSC and we are asked to keep off the water, then the question has to be asked as to whether or not previous mismanagement by the department has contributed to the lack of opportunity to practice our rights. Of which DFO is mandated to protect. The simple act of opening a fishery has to be looked at in a long term perspective. This is exactly the argument that Natives have brought to the table time and time again. The problem I have is when someone tries to include natives in the demise of the fish when we have been their keepers for 10's of thousands of years. Even tough we practised commercial fisheries for trade with other bands, with no ill effects at all. There where plenty of fish before settlement. Therefore it is very asinine to include the protectors of the salmon in their downfall. Sure we use fish, but so do bears. We both have the same rights to access them.

quote:you portray the First Nations in the year 2008 and beyond as victims in society

Damb right I do, because they are. In this case they are the victims of overfishing by sport fishermen and commercial fishermen and mismanagement by DFO. But were not the ones that pay...unfortunitly it is the fish! If this is too much for you to bear, quit fishing.



Take only what you need.
 
quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin

quote:But that aside, when you read articles like the one below everyone needs get involved! I don’t recommend shutting it down for the commercial fleet (including the selling of fish by Natives), the natives, or the sport fisherman… I recommend monitoring the stocks and shutting them down completely for all when necessary giving the stock a chance to rebuild. If we don’t the only thing left will be “hatchery” and “farmed” fish!

You and a few other people here don't seem to get it, we are not on equal ground when it comes to salmon, if you don't believe me... ask the Supreme Court. Perhaps you should revisit Rights Vs. Privilege. The Federal Government (regardless of who is in power) has a fiduciary responsibly to ensure that our rights are protected. They have no such mandate for sport fishing or commercial fishing. And let’s get one point clear here there are two types of Native Fishing FSC and commercial. In bad return years I would have no problem keeping the commercial nets out of the water, which is a privilege fishery. On the other hand if there isn't enough fish to catch for FSC and we are asked to keep off the water, then the question has to be asked as to whether or not previous mismanagement by the department has contributed to the lack of opportunity to practice our rights. Of which DFO is mandated to protect. The simple act of opening a fishery has to be looked at in a long term perspective. This is exactly the argument that Natives have brought to the table time and time again. The problem I have is when someone tries to include natives in the demise of the fish when we have been their keepers for 10's of thousands of years. Even tough we practised commercial fisheries for trade with other bands, with no ill effects at all. There where plenty of fish before settlement. Therefore it is very asinine to include the protectors of the salmon in their downfall. Sure we use fish, but so do bears. We both have the same rights to access them.

quote:you portray the First Nations in the year 2008 and beyond as victims in society

Damb right I do, because they are. In this case they are the victims of overfishing by sport fishermen and commercial fishermen and mismanagement by DFO. But were not the ones that pay...unfortunitly it is the fish! If this is too much for you to bear, quit fishing.



Take only what you need.


Like I said earlier...It's like watching a train wreck.

I guess watching a group of Natives dump pick truck loads of quality fish in the ditch after not being able to sell them...kinda makes me think they aren't victims.
Wait...maybe they are victims...
Victims of their own stupidity...no marketing plan, no value added product, no viable business plan...just a vast concept of greed at the resources cost....
I think you need to have a good hard look at what it means to be a victim....and Natives now a day's have far more opportunites presented to them through government than most tax paying citizens in Canada do right now.
I'm the first one to admit the system ain't perfect but come on...victims...hardly!
Everybody on the board knows who I am and alot of them know me personally.
I am the first guy to stand up for what he believes in and this topic is definately going in the wrong direction.
I don't have any ill will towards Natives or anybody else for that means...but victims...I'm just not buying it...

www.coastwidesportsfishing.com
 
Assasin

You need to stop feeling sorry for yourself and get into the
21st century. What happened is history now, and there is no point
in complaining cuz it won't change anything.
 
quote:I guess watching a group of Natives dump pick truck loads of quality fish in the ditch after not being able to sell them...kinda makes me think they aren't victims.

e_05081.gif


salmoncanningshovelling.jpg


E_05032.gif


FYI This is what the Natives of today are victims of.


quote:You need to stop feeling sorry for yourself and get into the
21st century. What happened is history now, and there is no point
in complaining cuz it won't change anything.

I am pretty sure I am not complaining, I can still fish for whatever and whenever I wish. Why would I want that to change? And that fish that was dumped by the
quote:pick truck
{LMAO} is also history, so why mention it then? Oh I know it is the double standards that you have.

Take only what you need.
 
quote:The above statement say's it all....seperate rules and regulations for different enthnic or racial background...
I guess I'm not in support of that....ever...

So your suggesting that you don't agree with the way your Country was founded? What kind of Canadian are you supposed to be?

I think its best if we agree to disagree:D

Take only what you need.
 
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