Interesting salmon article

[Big Bob]

The article was about DFO and their poor record.

From my view the fact that the Cowichan with its poor return of coho, was opened for a kill fishery is a glaring example of their bad management. Unfortunately this was not an isolated incident.

 

[Barbender]

quote:There's a nice warm place waiting for the fish farming scumbags and all their mouthpieces

Oh do tell there Red Monster. I mean I know a intelligent rebuttal is probably not going to come from you anytime soon, forming words with more than 2 syllables is probably not a easy task for someone like yourself. However to make a threat like that is a little over the top don't you think?

 

[scott craven]

quote:Originally posted by Big Bob

The article was about DFO and their poor record.

you're right Bob, theres' another thread about fish farming

 

[The Fish Assassin]

IMHO end the fish farms and start Sea Ranching.

Take only what you need.

 

[Sager01]

Dear "The Fish ASSassin";

Sea Ranching eh? Yeah, there's probably no risk to releasing billions of salmon into the ocean to out-compete with natural salmon. Of course, these cultured salmon probably don't eat, poop or screw eh? Glad to see you put lots of thought into that solution.
If your goal in life is to assassinate fish, then perhaps this is best for you. But for the rest of us who know that if you took these band aid solutions away (sea ranching's only purpose is to keep the 'dream alive' for fisherman), you may not have any wild runs of salmon left. [B)]

I quickly searched for what sea ranching is: this popped up;

http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/what-is-salmon-ranching/

Ouch!

 

[IronNoggin]

From the Article link above:

quote:In 2007, the Alaska Department of Fish and Game reported that 193 million salmon were commercially harvested. Of this, 58 million salmon were identified as ocean ranched (1.5 billion were released years prior of which 80 million survived of which 58 million were caught). Therefore, in 2007, ocean ranched salmon represented over 40% of the commercial catch in Alaska.

And therein describes the double-whammy being applied to southern origin stocks by the State of Alaska. Not only do they harvest excessive numbers of salmon that originate far from their waters (sorry, the excuse they "pastured" in Alaskan waters doesn't cut the mustard), But they pump out billions of clones to compete with the wild stocks that migrate there to feed, grow, and develop into mature fish before wandering home. Sadly, this combined effort has indeed resulted in dramatic declines of salmon stocks down the entire coast, even effecting runs as far distant as California. All in the name of the almighty dollar!

Salmon Ranching an answer? Hardly, it creates FAR</u> more problems that is solves, and if left unchecked, will directly contribute to the continuing collapse of our own stocks here. No way in you-know-where should we give even passing consideration to such a program here!

Almost funny what some will through out there as answers to the troubling decline in stocks we bear witness to today. Almost...[xx(]

Cheers,
Nog

 

[The Fish Assassin]

OK from what you guys said, you'd rather farm them? LMAO? We basicly sea ranch in every hatchery that is in exhistance. What do you think a place like Robertson Creek is? Sure it will kill of the true wild stocks (if it hasn't already) but at least there are a few fish to catch.

As for farming, I have never ate a farmed fish yet, (and never will) watching the fiasco in Zebbalas was enough for me to confirm my suspicions about farming. Something went wrong with the fish up there, the farmed fish. They all started dying off from an unknown ailment. So instead of finding out what was wrong with them they just quickly rushed them into the processor to get them to market. These fish where all very sick. The meat was very mushy (probably like all farmed fish) not something I would even consider serving at dinner. But yet the mighty dollar wins out and the fish are off to the supermarket and or restaurant. Serves people right for buying farmed fish I guess, but pretty gross negligence on part of the owners of the farm.

Take only what you need.

 

[Sager01]

In response to Fish Assassin;

It always peaks my interest that just when a good debate is brewing, like the one we were having on sea ranching, how quickly one reverts back to the "I don't like farmed fish cause it's mushy" argument. It's certainly dissapointing that you had the bad experience in Zebbalas, but I'm sure that's not the norm. I am hoping we are getting beyond that and can now have real discussions on how to save our salmon.

Let me be clear - I like eating wild salmon, I like 'ranched' salmon and I like 'farmed' salmon. It's all very good for you and all has some level of impact on our environment by the time it's packaged up in your grocery store. But the question here is how best can we sustainably provide salmon to a growing market? I believe a very small commercial catch is possible along with salmon farms to meet the growing demand.

Enhancing salmon plays an important role in helping sustain healthy 'wild' returns - as long as it's not just pumping millions of salmon into the ocean - that's just a band aid. Real salmon enhancement includes stream rehabilitation and saltwater habitat rejuvenation.

Sea ranching (aka salmon ranching) is not salmon enhancement. It's basically culturing billions of salmon that are bred to out-compete natural salmon. I believe (and so do many scientists) that sea ranches have a far greater overall impact than do salmon farms, as ranched salmon are able to interbreed with natural salmon and eat an unknown amount of ocean protein.

Debate is good, but lets try to stop going off on some emotional tangent?
[^]

 

[Little Hawk]

Howdy,

Sager: I did not invite discussion about the net-pen business here; you did.

So, since you saw fit to call me out, I'll oblige.

With the likes of you, Sockeye, and 'Wordbender' lurking in the background monitoring this forum, ready to pounce on anyone posting negative info/opinions on the industry with your arsenal of canned-industry-defensive-rhetoric, someone has to step-up and call a spade-a-spade.

By the way, here on a 'Sportfishing-forum' it's not really prudent - in your half-baked attempt to defend the indefensible - to make statements that lump the harvest of wild-salmon in together with salmon-farming/ranching as having "some level of impact on our environment". Nice try.

Harvesting wild salmon does not:

- dump countless tons (read TONS!) of organic-pollution, inorganic chemicals/chemotherapeutic material directly into our salmon habitat 24/7.

- inject a constant stream of escaping non-indigeonous Atlantic salmon clones directly into our wild Salmon habitat.

- provide a wide-spread source-point of unprecedented lethal disease & parasite transfer to our wild Pacific salmon.

You were right about one thing Sager: In my nearly 10 yrs. opposing this environmental-holocaust known as the net-pen business, I do sometimes feel somewhat lonely. But that is simply because people like me - little guys with an opinion and no money - who oppose this business are truly playing our part in a genuine 'David vs. Goliath' saga. The industry has countless resources ($$$) to fight for its survival and can 'buy' its purchase here on our coast. We (the opposition) have only science - factual peer-reviewed evidence - on our side and a will to see to it that there are still wild Pacific salmon around for our kids & grandkids.

Today, I see the net-pen industry as being the No.1 most preventable/controllable issue affecting/impacting Pacific salmon here on the West Coast and I will never - read NEVER - back down from the likes of you as you continue to defend and promulgate this filth.

As you chew your next mouthful of farmed fish, think about this: It may in fact have been grown in Chile where the industries use of drugs and chemical treatments on their fish is virtually unregulated. Or, since our own government does not require the BC industry to declare if their product has been treated with Slice (emmaectin benzoate), perhaps you're giving yourself a sea-lice treatment as well as a full belly.

Enjoy!

Standing for Wild Salmon,

Terry Anderson

PS. My apologies to my fellow sportfisherman if I have offended by taking the 'bait' on this one. It is in my nature to fight these people for the good of our wild Pacific fish. I will continue to do so elsewhere from this thread.

 

[reelfast]

net pens are the equivalent of stock yard feed lots. they are there for a single purpose, $$$$, nothing else. they are doing to the under sea environment exactly what those feed pens are doing to the surface of the earth.

i would suggest, however, that the single biggest impact on salmon recovery is as simple as taking ALL nets out of the water. selective harvest MUST be instituted, and damn soon at that. commercial harvest should revert back to the troll industry while native americans, no matter what you call them, go back to traps that allow sorting of wild fishes AND an actual count of take.

we don't have many years left before it really will be all over for the wild fishes from mexico to alaska. the collapse along the california and oregon coasts this summer should be a good indication of what is heading north. the lack of fish in and around washington, ocean and puget sound, is widely recognized by the sport fishing groups but ignored by those who could be taking action to protect these fish.

this is a problem for everyone interested in fishing and having wild fish survive, no matter where you hang your hat.

 

[Dogbreath]

Reelfast-Well said![8D]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[The Fish Assassin]

quote:Sea ranching (aka salmon ranching) is not salmon enhancement. It's basically culturing billions of salmon that are bred to out-compete natural salmon. I believe (and so do many scientists) that sea ranches have a far greater overall impact than do salmon farms, as ranched salmon are able to interbreed with natural salmon and eat an unknown amount of ocean protein.

Ohh so you mean like Robertson Creek? Or Nanaimo, or Nitnat? Or any of our hatcheries on the coast? The only difference may be that we don't hold them at the river mouth, but then again if we did I bet our survival rates would go way up. Imagine a BC coast without the SEP.

As for the mushy fish... get over it, it will always be mushy compared to a sea run salmon. You say you like farmed fish? I should have saved one of those diseased specimens for you to eat! I'm sure it’s not the norm for those fish to die off like that, but I think it is the norm to rush them to market at the first sign off die-off no matter what the cause is. I can just imagine the brief moment of panic when the boss is told the fish are dying off again... before he picks up the phone and calls a processor.

quote:while native Americans, no matter what you call them, go back to traps that allow sorting of wild fishes AND an actual count of take

Sure we'll go back to traps as soon as you restore the stocks to pre-contact numbers. The supreme court of Canada has decided that with or without your involvement it would only be a natural process for us to have modern equipment now and we are justified in using it. What you’re suggesting is that we go back in time and fish the old ways. As soon as you invent a time machine lets explore this further. Reality is... that aint going to happen.

quoteebate is good, but let’s try to stop going off on some emotional tangent?

LOL that is funny! How emotional am I supposed to be over Farmed fish? I think you need to have a look in the mirror because apparently that is you buddy! Unlike your debate mine is centered on facts.


Take only what you need.

 

[richmake]

Interesting subject....
I have a limited knowledge of ranching but I can tell you first hand what I've seen.
Years ago, I was on a commercial vessel that was sent to Alaska to recover fish that were at a Ranching project.
I had never been involved in such a program but off we went.
We were told that the fish had been purchased already and all we had to do was catch the poundage.
Well, when we arrived at the head of the inlet...there was more chum salmon than I'd ever seen before and no river to go too...interesting I thought.
The concept seemed briliant at first but as we left with a boat load, I thought about the impact on the ocean survival, ecosystem that this whole ranching idea might have.
After a little research, I came to a few conclusions that may work in BC.
I believe that a small ranching program in certain areas might actually benefit an area while it may be harmful in other's.
I'm not saying it's a solution by no means to our problems but in the area I was in Alaska...both the commercial sector and recreational sector felt the ranching project was fantastic.
I'm sure other areas might not of agreed.
The one nice part about a ranching project is it can be run from a private sector, federal or jointly....
All I know is some of the locals up in Alaska I talked to said it actually saved their guide company for a few years and having their clients able to catch more fish than other areas and not feel bad about harvesting over releasing made for happy clients.
Ranching certain species of salmon in moderate numbers might just work in selective areas...why not?


www.coastwidesportsfishing.com

 

[Last Chance]

I don't think it could hurt areas where salmon have already collapsed. If they are of the same species, why not?

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

 

[reelfast]

mr assassin, i am sure you already know that in order to save the tourist dollars, those in charge of the harvest on the kamchetka pennisula have banned nets and placed traps in the rivers. what you seem to fail to recognize is just how efficient traps happen to be. every fish entering a system is forced into the kamchetka traps, every fish! now they simply sort them, wild back above the trap, hatchery, bonked until the quota is met. simple, efficient, painless and the russians continue to rake in 7-10k a week from the sports!

court decisions made in the time of yor, simpy need to be revisited given the conditions TODAY! of course, the political will is not there to challenge anything that might then come out in the media regarding what a racist ******* mr x happens to be. and so, the wild fish vanish, great tradeoff.

 

[The Fish Assassin]

quote:court decisions made in the time of yor, simpy need to be revisited given the conditions TODAY! of course, the political will is not there to challenge anything that might then come out in the media regarding what a racist ******* mr x happens to be. and so, the wild fish vanish, great tradeoff

LMAO so you blame Natives for the wild fish collapse, You have to re-educate yourself about the fisheries on the coast, Actually there is enough information now on this forum you could actually educate yourself by reading on here! Your ignorance humours me though.. I'll give ya that.

Take only what you need.

 

[Last Chance]

There were several tribes that voulantarily (Or however you spell it) reduced or abstained from their ceremonial fisheries this season out of concearn for stocks. I got this from the spring meeting at the SFAB. So, whatever most of us anglers thing about their constititional rights, some of them did make a positive move.

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

 

[SerengetiGuide]

quote:Originally posted by LastChance

There were several tribes that voulantarily (Or however you spell it) reduced or abstained from their ceremonial fisheries this season out of concearn for stocks. I got this from the spring meeting at the SFAB. So, whatever most of us anglers thing about their constititional rights, some of them did make a positive move.

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

You mean selling them? [] lol

www.serengetifishingcharters.com

 

[Last Chance]

quote:Originally posted by SerengetiGuide

quote:Originally posted by LastChance

There were several tribes that voulantarily (Or however you spell it) reduced or abstained from their ceremonial fisheries this season out of concearn for stocks. I got this from the spring meeting at the SFAB. So, whatever most of us anglers thing about their constititional rights, some of them did make a positive move.

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

You mean selling them? [] lol

www.serengetifishingcharters.com

I'm gonna can my usual response to the traditional "White '81 Vandura on the side of the road sockeye sale ceremony".

It's just one of a few examples of a group that has a lot of rights that several people resent willingly not using them in the light of a fishery on the ropes. There is NOTHING anyone can do about the rights given to the Natives. But, is what they take really signifigant?

Does anyone have some numbers here on the Native take, for sake of debate? Rather then the usual "I saw a whole bunch of Chum salmon rotting on lawns on Cowichan Bay Road" argument.

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

 

[reelfast]

mr assassin, i have to just shake my head in disbelief when i read what you type.

what we are talking about is commercial harvest of fishes by native and non-native commercial fishermen. it makes not a whit of difference your lineage once you put the nets in the water. greed impact all humans who breath the same air once the chase for the almighty dollar begins, indians included. this is not C&S fishing, this is the commercial harvest of fish for sale at the local market.

so are indians an integral part of declining fish runs??? damn right! they are right there with every other commercial interest, get over it and understand just what is going on out there in the salt.

nets don't discriminate as they kill, we all know this, and whoever puts those nets out is an indiscriminate killer of the resource. again, lineage makes not a bit of difference in this arguement.