Boating Instructors GREAT IDEA

[Olde School]

About 35 years ago my parents became more serious about boating. They spent most of a winter going through a Canadian Power Squadron program.
Not many years later I finally got my own first real boat. I am one of those who believe in best practices, so knew that even though I'd been boating almost my entire life, getting some certification was a good idea - especially since my then young family would be counting on my expertise.
The idea of spending months in a classroom had zero appeal. Fortunately a young man working for me suggested that his parent's business, Nanaimo Yachts and Charters, had a program I might like.
The upshot was I spent 2 entire days on MY BOAT with an amazing teacher, Lew Forth. Afterwards I wrote an exam and became certified as an operator, above and beyond the government's minimum requirements.

Lew and I met at Brechin Boat launch and I was annoyed that he was there early, because I hadn't yet launched my boat. Well, it turns out that he always tried to meet clients at the ramp so they could work out the best way to launch the client's rig! Such a great idea!
In a later conversation Lew stated that the 3 most challenging (and dangerous) situations all small boaters face are: launching/trailering, docking, and anchoring. Now 25 years and over 5000 hours later I cannot disagree with him.

If I were in charge of things, I would make it mandatory that people would have training and certification in those 3 areas prior to being permitted to operate a boat.

I'm sure that many of the googans out there simply don't know there is a better, safer, easier way.

I must add that I still manage to be a googan several times per year, but at least I recognize it afterwards , and promise to never do it again - fat chance!

 

[zurk]

good thing youre not in charge of things, then.
"certifications" dont make you competent. "training" doesnt make you competent.
getting out and doing different things for 10,000 hrs makes you competent. but you cant get those 10,000 hrs if you arent allowed to go and do things and make mistakes doing them in the first place.
all you should get tested for is how not to go out and kill others or yourself. everything else is learnt only by time and experience.

 

[Foxsea]

good thing youre not in charge of things, then.
"certifications" dont make you competent. "training" doesnt make you competent.
getting out and doing different things for 10,000 hrs makes you competent. but you cant get those 10,000 hrs if you arent allowed to go and do things and make mistakes doing them in the first place.
all you should get tested for is how not to go out and kill others or yourself. everything else is learnt only by time and experience.

Malcolm Gladwell popularized the daft notion that, with enough practice, (10,000 hrs.) you could become an expert at anything. Practice can account for around 18% of the difference between competent and expert skills. Deliberate practice is only a predictor of success in fields that have super stable structures. For example, in tennis, chess, and classical music, the rules never change, so you can study up and practice to become the best.

Nothing about the ocean and maritime activities is stable. It changes constantly with the vessel, time of day, locations, seasons, weather, tides and currents. What is more important than practice is a broad base of relevant, theoretical knowledge to draw on, high levels of motivation, some inate ability, opportunities, mentoring and supportive networks. Certification implies motivation, theoretical knowledge, mentoring and a network. A great beginning! I would certainly not discount certification (a common refrain for those without certification) as an advantage on the journey toward excellence.

No doubt good judgment comes, on occasion, through learning from poor judgment. However, learning haphazardly and through trial and error is a very slow, reckless and expensive process. Also, without demonstrated proficiency and certification, who wants to risk boating with you or around you? Who wants to risk insuring you or allowing you to charter their boat? You just don't know what you don't know.

 

[profisher]

I know many brokers/dealers offer instruction after a sale. Some use outside individuals who are willing to teach basic boat handling on their new purchase. Steve Nelson who I first met as a salesman at SG Power Products and who eventually started, owned and sold Bayview Yacht Sales in Sidney offers such instruction. Steve also started and owned the houseboat rentals on Cowichan Lake which he also sold.

 

[Squire]

Malcolm Gladwell popularized the daft notion that, with enough practice, (10,000 hrs.) you could become an expert at anything. Practice can account for around 18% of the difference between competent and expert skills. Deliberate practice is only a predictor of success in fields that have super stable structures. For example, in tennis, chess, and classical music, the rules never change, so you can study up and practice to become the best.

Nothing about the ocean and maritime activities is stable. It changes constantly with the vessel, time of day, locations, seasons, weather, tides and currents. What is more important than practice is a broad base of relevant, theoretical knowledge to draw on, high levels of motivation, some inate ability, opportunities, mentoring and supportive networks. Certification implies motivation, theoretical knowledge, mentoring and a network. A great beginning! I would certainly not discount certification (a common refrain for those without certification) as an advantage on the journey toward excellence.

No doubt good judgment comes, on occasion, through learning from poor judgment. However, learning haphazardly and through trial and error is a very slow, reckless and expensive process. Also, without demonstrated proficiency and certification, who wants to risk boating with you or around you? Who wants to risk insuring you or allowing you to charter their boat? You just don't know what you don't know.

Insightful and intelligent post.

 

[Olde School]

"You just don't know what you don't know."

Perfectly got my point, Foxsea!

 

[prodjsaig]

I know many brokers/dealers offer instruction after a sale. Some use outside individuals who are willing to teach basic boat handling on their new purchase. Steve Nelson who I first met as a salesman at SG Power Products and who eventually started, owned and sold Bayview Yacht Sales in Sidney offers such instruction. Steve also started and owned the houseboat rentals on Cowichan Lake which he also sold.

I've had good interactions with the service centers on the island. Sg power were polite on the phone. Went to smoke service center to get an outboard checked found out it was overheating at idle.

Saved me a lot of money. Big wait lists usually sooke took me right in. Over here on the mainland there used to be break water marine those guys were doing fraud shady stuff they had a drug addiction from what I heard. Out of business.

Bridgeview marine or Vancouver outboard center for me.

 

[prodjsaig]

Sooke service center not smoke. Really nice people

 

[Coyote Spooner]

good thing youre not in charge of things, then.
"certifications" dont make you competent. "training" doesnt make you competent.
getting out and doing different things for 10,000 hrs makes you competent. but you cant get those 10,000 hrs if you arent allowed to go and do things and make mistakes doing them in the first place.
all you should get tested for is how not to go out and kill others or yourself. everything else is learnt only by time and experience.

When it’s time to drive…you go to a driving school. Read up on how to drive. Take a test. They take you out and mentor you. You take your practical, and then your “certified”. Boating should be no different. So according to you we should have untrained and un-certified drivers trying to get to 10,000 hours? Then they’ll be good to go. Come drive on the Alex Fraser and east/west connector. You’ll see the results of this level of thinking.

If I want to be a marine electrician. Where do I go for training? Maybe you can help me put all kinds of useless **** in my boat, for 10,000 hours. Then I’ll be qualified?

 

[walleyes]

About 35 years ago my parents became more serious about boating. They spent most of a winter going through a Canadian Power Squadron program.
Not many years later I finally got my own first real boat. I am one of those who believe in best practices, so knew that even though I'd been boating almost my entire life, getting some certification was a good idea - especially since my then young family would be counting on my expertise.
The idea of spending months in a classroom had zero appeal. Fortunately a young man working for me suggested that his parent's business, Nanaimo Yachts and Charters, had a program I might like.
The upshot was I spent 2 entire days on MY BOAT with an amazing teacher, Lew Forth. Afterwards I wrote an exam and became certified as an operator, above and beyond the government's minimum requirements.

Lew and I met at Brechin Boat launch and I was annoyed that he was there early, because I hadn't yet launched my boat. Well, it turns out that he always tried to meet clients at the ramp so they could work out the best way to launch the client's rig! Such a great idea!
In a later conversation Lew stated that the 3 most challenging (and dangerous) situations all small boaters face are: launching/trailering, docking, and anchoring. Now 25 years and over 5000 hours later I cannot disagree with him.

If I were in charge of things, I would make it mandatory that people would have training and certification in those 3 areas prior to being permitted to operate a boat.

I'm sure that many of the googans out there simply don't know there is a better, safer, easier way.

I must add that I still manage to be a googan several times per year, but at least I recognize it afterwards , and promise to never do it again - fat chance!More expense added to our lives, more certification. What a fantastic

Unfortunately there is no amount of certificates that can teach a googan anything. One only has to take a 10 min drive around and you have proof of that. Certainly spending a couple hours with an instructor won’t fix stupid either. Biggest thing with people is they just don’t care. There’s no respect for others, they are the Center of the universe, the hell with others. That’s the issue out there and no certificate is going to change that. I’ve had many a discussion with googans on a boat ramp about proper etiquette and it usually gets you a “ I don’t give a ***K or a go ***k yourself. Go hunting, we have to have a gun safety course in this country, yet go spend some time in the bush around a googan.

Nope all a certificate would do is once again add more expense to our lives, more government bureaucracy, and something else to get a fine for. The absolute last thing this country needs is more government involvement in our lives.

 

[SpringVelocity]

Theory and hands on experience are important in anything you do. I disagree that going in classroom isn't worth it. I have two levels of power squadron and some other courses. They were all 100 percent worth it.

Should be a clue when you get discount on insurance and transport canada demands guides take courses. Would you want the guys on BC ferries to learn with hours and not take courses? My god I wouldn't.

 

[walleyes]

Theory and hands on experience are important in anything you do. I disagree that going in classroom isn't worth it. I have two levels of power squadron and some other courses. They were all 100 percent worth it.

Should be a clue when you get discount on insurance and transport canada demands guides take courses. Would you want the guys on BC ferries to learn with hours and not take courses? My god I wouldn't.

Once again it has to be pointed out that Vancouver Island is not the center of the universe, there are other places in this country that people boat in and use boats. Why burden people in northern Sask that spend their lives in 14’ boats on 20 sq/m lakes with unnecessary certifications. There are a million boats launches across this country that are nothing more than a sand beach cut out of the pine trees for access. Why would you burden someone like that with 3 days of open sea boating information, absolutely zero relatable information.

 

[gone fishin]

I think the point is as Walleyes said
"Unfortunately there is no amount of certificates that can teach a googan anything"
Taking a driving test before getting your drivers license is important but it still does not keep the dumb asses from doing dumb things.

 

[Rain City]

Malcolm Gladwell popularized the daft notion that, with enough practice, (10,000 hrs.) you could become an expert at anything. Practice can account for around 18% of the difference between competent and expert skills. Deliberate practice is only a predictor of success in fields that have super stable structures. For example, in tennis, chess, and classical music, the rules never change, so you can study up and practice to become the best.

Nothing about the ocean and maritime activities is stable. It changes constantly with the vessel, time of day, locations, seasons, weather, tides and currents. What is more important than practice is a broad base of relevant, theoretical knowledge to draw on, high levels of motivation, some inate ability, opportunities, mentoring and supportive networks. Certification implies motivation, theoretical knowledge, mentoring and a network. A great beginning! I would certainly not discount certification (a common refrain for those without certification) as an advantage on the journey toward excellence.

No doubt good judgment comes, on occasion, through learning from poor judgment. However, learning haphazardly and through trial and error is a very slow, reckless and expensive process. Also, without demonstrated proficiency and certification, who wants to risk boating with you or around you? Who wants to risk insuring you or allowing you to charter their boat? You just don't know what you don't know.

I love this guy.

I see this in home building. It shocks me how inexperienced people try and tackle a project with little to no experience. They just don't know what they don't know.

I think this is also the reason that professionals in one field can understand why they shouldn't tackle another trade on their own. They DO know what they don't know because they understand how much effort and learning went into their own craft. They understand what trade secrets are and how the only way to learn them is by making mistakes. Most people, unfortunately, don't ever get that good at anything. And that's why they pull up behind the first boat they see at the fishing grounds lol. Anyways sorry, rant over.

 

[SpringVelocity]

I love this guy.

I see this in home building. It shocks me how inexperienced people try and tackle a project with little to no experience. They just don't know what they don't know.

I think this is also the reason that professionals in one field can understand why they shouldn't tackle another trade on their own. They DO know what they don't know because they understand how much effort and learning went into their own craft. They understand what trade secrets are and how the only way to learn them is by making mistakes. Most people, unfortunately, don't ever get that good at anything. And that's why they pull up behind the first boat they see at the fishing grounds lol. Anyways sorry, rant over.

I see it in the design and engineering world as well. Know exactly what your talking about.

 

[sly_karma]

Malcolm Gladwell popularized the daft notion that, with enough practice, (10,000 hrs.) you could become an expert at anything. Practice can account for around 18% of the difference between competent and expert skills. Deliberate practice is only a predictor of success in fields that have super stable structures. For example, in tennis, chess, and classical music, the rules never change, so you can study up and practice to become the best.

Nothing about the ocean and maritime activities is stable. It changes constantly with the vessel, time of day, locations, seasons, weather, tides and currents. What is more important than practice is a broad base of relevant, theoretical knowledge to draw on, high levels of motivation, some inate ability, opportunities, mentoring and supportive networks. Certification implies motivation, theoretical knowledge, mentoring and a network. A great beginning! I would certainly not discount certification (a common refrain for those without certification) as an advantage on the journey toward excellence.

No doubt good judgment comes, on occasion, through learning from poor judgment. However, learning haphazardly and through trial and error is a very slow, reckless and expensive process. Also, without demonstrated proficiency and certification, who wants to risk boating with you or around you? Who wants to risk insuring you or allowing you to charter their boat? You just don't know what you don't know.

Some applied the Gladwell concept to skiing, they claimed a million vertical feet of experience would make you an expert skier. Same results, open environment sports have too many variables.

If experience is all you have to rely on, then all you know is what you've experienced so far.

 

[RevyG]

I have my SVOP and MEDA3 , week course and we never left the classroom!!! I was shocked. Yes glad I have them ( happier work payed) but experience and the course is why I feel confident.
Not one or the other, both.
you know how I got 35 years experience……. 35 years, don’t beat yourself up, you’re a smart guy, you’ll get it! Wise words from an old timer when I started my career, never forgot those wise words.

 

[Foxsea]

I love this guy.

I see this in home building. It shocks me how inexperienced people try and tackle a project with little to no experience. They just don't know what they don't know.

I think this is also the reason that professionals in one field can understand why they shouldn't tackle another trade on their own. They DO know what they don't know because they understand how much effort and learning went into their own craft. They understand what trade secrets are and how the only way to learn them is by making mistakes. Most people, unfortunately, don't ever get that good at anything. And that's why they pull up behind the first boat they see at the fishing grounds lol. Anyways sorry, rant over.

Totally agree. Kindred spirits: Red Seal Carpenter since 1978 after 6 years apprenticing (some take a little longer - lol). Am I proud of that certification? Effing right - I earned it! Still very proud to be part of a brother/sister-hood of professional tradespeople 50 years later!

I am firmly committed to life-long learning and most smart people are, too. Curious minds are drawn to learning like moths to a flame. I have earned many other certifications and a Masters degree since 1978. I EARNED every one, through my time, my own money and a hell of a lot of personal commitment and effort. Don't tell me that doesn't count for much!

Still, I'm most proud of my chosen trade. I was working with another old-timer on a Habitat job not long ago and he taught me a couple of new tricks for my skills "tool-box". I was thrilled! Even us old dogs can learn new tricks.

 

[Foxsea]

Unfortunately there is no amount of certificates that can teach a googan anything. One only has to take a 10 min drive around and you have proof of that. Certainly spending a couple hours with an instructor won’t fix stupid either. Biggest thing with people is they just don’t care. There’s no respect for others, they are the Center of the universe, the hell with others. That’s the issue out there and no certificate is going to change that. I’ve had many a discussion with googans on a boat ramp about proper etiquette and it usually gets you a “ I don’t give a ***K or a go ***k yourself. Go hunting, we have to have a gun safety course in this country, yet go spend some time in the bush around a googan.

Nope all a certificate would do is once again add more expense to our lives, more government bureaucracy, and something else to get a fine for. The absolute last thing this country needs is more government involvement in our lives.

Sorry but your cynical take-away from these situations is typical for someone without an education or certification in anything. Anyone can learn but some simply choose not to.

 

[cracked_ribs]

Anyone can learn but some simply choose not to.

Is this not his exact point?

I'm generally a fan of training. I actually used to evaluate training, professionally. My experience is that any certification that's readily available is worthless.

If there's a government mandated short course in something...you might as well just ask someone to summarize the key points in three sentences, because it's not going to have been an information-dense environment, and those three points are all anyone is going to remember in six months anyway.

Getting serious instruction on stuff is totally valuable, but a lot of people conflate the value of serious instruction with the system of government certification. They're related, I guess.


But humans are related to cuttlefish, too.