2009 - 2010 Halibut Debate + Poll

So let's give some and get some.

Increase the sporties TAC up from 12% and put a limit of 10 or whatever a year per licence.
As mentioned before though once you give something away voluntarily don't think you can change your mind the next week.
Then again the BIG BUCK$$ TALK as usual and personally I don't see anything changing in the near future.

Should have another rally at the legislature!



JUST FISHEN'
 
Good Point Unknown, I personally know of two major players out of Hardy who avoided fishing Hali for most of the season due to the low price.(More Salmon Presure instead) Much of the native quota did also in fact sell off to others in the fleet who had reduced quota or who wanted more. However overall lots was not taken this October even by the big boyz due to inclement SE weather keeping the boys off the Triangle.

I would have no concern with an annual limit if this was actually conservation issue as opposed to allocation split. Say 12 a year per license holder, no size limit and 2 a day 4 possession with a fair allocation to support the numbers well into the future so i can see my daughter smile with her first scrappy chicken on.:D Most of us are for conservation and a long term sustainable action plan, however that is hard to do with such a goofy TAC split

Some say and have witnessed firsthand, reduced size and stock in specific offshore areas and I agree as well that that poses a concern that promotes the annual limitation theory. Commercial guys have that same notion regardless of what the IPHC numbers say. Sure the Biomass is strong, but much of it is targeted below 50 fathoms, a bit out of reach for most of us.

This allocation between sporties and Commercial has created a real them and us separation that does no good for anyone. It should be deemed a public resource and split up in an fair and equal manner allowing all user groups access, with sustainability the primary factor, in a perfect world that could happen. At this point the 12% we take is deemed to much by many.

Hey Gov, I am a bit out of the loop the past few months, missed the last meeting. What is the synopsis for next season? We looking at an extended closure into the early Spring?


www.tailspincharters.com
 
Hey Fog Ducker, weighing in a little late, but in answer to your question we fish out of Port Alberni (Clutesi where we are moored) and Bamfield (McKay Bay Lodge) or our floating cabin on Link Island. Most of my fishing is off shore or in Barkley Sound, but I do run up to Nootka each year for a reunion tour and change of pace.

I would concur with your observation over the years regarding hali size. Most of the easy large ones are now easy smaller ones. That is also born out in the biomass data published by the IHC...lots of little one's coming up through the system. You can still get the large one's by anchoring up over the rock piles and holes, but we prefer not to do that because we need to leave those fish to spawn. The other reason is the smaller fish are also much better eating.

The whole allocation issue between Commercial and Sport is very complicated. The unfortunate thing is there are a number of commercial operators who are not fishing their quota, opting to sell/lease it to other fishers. Even more unfortunate is they do not wish to sell their quota to the Sporties for fear this will become a permanent swap in allocation and feed the continued growth of the hali sport fishery.....a real threat to them. I think if I were them, I would be worried about that also, so it's hard to blame them.

As Unknown points out it is very difficult to crack the code with the Commercial guys because we are a threat to that ever changing TAC....but as suggested by Rob it is best if we could somehow figure it out by working together at the SFAC's. You never know, some one out there may come up with an idea that cracks the code.

Even worse, the whole allocation issue is wrapped up in the US fleet, and even they can't agree State to State - especially Alaska. Ugly situation, and extremely complicated. My hat is off to the guys from BC that sit on the Commission - its a bit like playing 5 chess matches at the same time.

So there will be no quick easy solutions, but perhaps starting with an annual catch limit of 10 fish, 2 fish per day catch and possession is one possible solution that might keep our catch within the TAC.

Personally, I would also prefer to see a max size limit, but there are a ton</u> of problems with that too...like how to do a measurement on a really large fish while bouncing around off shore....and the only reason for suggesting putting that in place is to encourage guys to stay away from the rock piles searching for monsters.

Maybe we could get around that with area closures, which could be another thing to put on the table to help keep the sporties within TAC??

This is an extremely interesting debate, and a great forum for getting ideas on the table as to how we can offer up some credible alternatives to what happened last season.
 
quote:The whole allocation issue between Commercial and Sport is very complicated. The unfortunate thing is there are a number of commercial operators who are not fishing their quota, opting to sell/lease it to other fishers. Even more unfortunate is they do not wish to sell their quota to the Sporties for fear this will become a permanent swap in allocation and feed the continued growth of the hali sport fishery.....a real threat to them. I think if I were them, I would be worried about that also, so it's hard to blame them.
Click to expand...

is it harder to find an older commercial fisherman willing to sell or to find a lodge or charter that is willing to buy?? from some of the older gents on the dock they are more concernecd that the quota they spent their lifetime aquiring as a retirement package will be stripped with no compensation. They were not overly concerned who bought it, just that they got fair compensation for their lives work.

i also agree that it is a good idea to take the initiative bring in some regs that work and look good.
 
quote:Originally posted by Tailspin

Good Point Unknown, I personally know of two major players out of Hardy who avoided fishing Hali for most of the season due to the low price.(More Salmon Presure instead) Much of the native quota did also in fact sell off to others in the fleet who had reduced quota or who wanted more. However overall lots was not taken this October even by the big boyz due to inclement SE weather keeping the boys off the Triangle.

I would have no concern with an annual limit if this was actually conservation issue as opposed to allocation split. Say 12 a year per license holder, no size limit and 2 a day 4 possession with a fair allocation to support the numbers well into the future so i can see my daughter smile with her first scrappy chicken on.:D Most of us are for conservation and a long term sustainable action plan, however that is hard to do with such a goofy TAC split

Some say and have witnessed firsthand, reduced size and stock in specific offshore areas and I agree as well that that poses a concern that promotes the annual limitation theory. Commercial guys have that same notion regardless of what the IPHC numbers say. Sure the Biomass is strong, but much of it is targeted below 50 fathoms, a bit out of reach for most of us.

This allocation between sporties and Commercial has created a real them and us separation that does no good for anyone. It should be deemed a public resource and split up in an fair and equal manner allowing all user groups access, with sustainability the primary factor, in a perfect world that could happen. At this point the 12% we take is deemed to much by many.

Hey Gov, I am a bit out of the loop the past few months, missed the last meeting. What is the synopsis for next season? We looking at an extended closure into the early Spring?


www.tailspincharters.com
Click to expand...

Always wanted to run up to Triangle, this year wasn't worth it with the one halibut a day quota....quite the run too...gotta pick the right days for sure...hopefully this upcoming year I'll get a chance.

www.serengetifishingcharters.com

*NEW VIDEO*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEzuNC59ck
 
quote:I take my hat off for this..pretty brave at the end of the season. Is this offer going to stand for 2010.
Click to expand...
You bet I will, I'll make it $100 if someone can show themselves with a tape measure on a 100lb+ fish - aint gonna happen.

quote:Always wanted to run up to Triangle,
Click to expand...
I can say for a fact that the commercial guys pull A LOT of 100lb+ fish off there. I would be willing to bet one boat could pull more "females" from triangle then the sport fleet does in a year.



http://www.fishingvancouverisland.org - Win an 8-Hour WCVI Charter!
 
Is the commercial fleet allowed to fish for them on inside waters? If they're not, that will probably be enough to allow them to recover....
 
Not defending the longline boyz Swiss, but most are well under 60 lbs off Triangle and said to be smaller each year. I am sure the odd hog still makes it's way on to the ice.

That would be a good run Serengeti, 120 very Nautical miles return from Hardy, ouch! Good fun in that big Pursuit though, 1/2 hour run[:p]



www.tailspincharters.com
 
quote:Not defending the longline boyz Swiss, but most are well under 60 lbs off Triangle and said to be smaller each year.
Click to expand...

Not an attack, but where did you get those numbers from? I have some experience in that area and my experience is the complete opposite of what you are saying.

Could be that is an average size and if so that is around double what the sport caught average size is I believe.
 
quote:Originally posted by Tailspin

Not defending the longline boyz Swiss, but most are well under 60 lbs off Triangle and said to be smaller each year. I am sure the odd hog still makes it's way on to the ice.

That would be a good run Serengeti, 120 very Nautical miles return from Hardy, ouch! Good fun in that big Pursuit though, 1/2 hour run[:p]



www.tailspincharters.com
Click to expand...

I figured out last year it would take about 2 1/2hrs to get up there...if it's calm I'm cruising at 30-32knots. Hope I get the chanceeee [8D]

www.serengetifishingcharters.com

*NEW VIDEO*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEzuNC59ck
 
I am talking about a Longline Commercial boats guys, not guides targetting large fish out of WH. Were we not discussing Commercial catch? The average is for a fact under 60 lbs on the longline. My info is from a friend who ownes the M.W and is well known for producing and finishing off quota in inclement weather. They just finished there last trip off the triangle a few weeks ago.

www.tailspincharters.com
 
I agree mostly with RS Craven.

I resent feeling unkind toward the folks in the commercial business. But, thats what lawyers and government policies do best... make adversaries of friends & neighbours.

I have a problem with TAC being tonnage amid declining catch size. That means greater numbers of "pieces" to equal their "tonnage", which means declining stocks, exponentially.

The concept of an "old salt" being gifted such a "retirement" package for their years in the industry... That being a marketable quota in perpetuity, seriously makes my butt raw.

While they were pounding the lawnchair collecting UIC/EI during the offseason, after reelin' in more bucks in a season that I ever made in a full year or maybe over three years, I was working and paying into UIC/EI. If they took FT work in the woods, there were still those between-times they pulled in the UIC.

I took my small paycheques and divvied it up to include RRSP's & investment accounts. I missed a lot of bar time with my buddies and opera nights with the ladies to make sure when retirement drifted along, I secured my future. I also paid salaries to others and had overheads to pay in my community.

To imagine, all that time those "self-employed" commercials were mere government employees, bagging an indexed pension at our expense, after all that time of bagging a government (EI) paycheque... It sticks in my gullet.

They can be good guys. They can work as hard as demons during the season. They could even employ a few guys along the way. That does nothing to change the result.

Like Chrysler, GM and big city bankers, they're just another form of welfare bum, sucking off the social services net that you & I pay for... resources of a nation which each citizen, you & I owns & shares equally, which each of our children and great-great-great granchildren are going to be reliant on. These permanent quotas are an abomination.
 
Poppaswiss, do you think you could get a picture of that from your buddy and post it on here? I would love to see that.
 
quote:Originally posted by Tailspin


Hey Gov, I am a bit out of the loop the past few months, missed the last meeting. What is the synopsis for next season? We looking at an extended closure into the early Spring?


www.tailspincharters.com
Click to expand...

Tailspin, from what I understand Pacific DFO senior management have been told by Ottawa to manage the sports sector inside the 12% TAC for 2010 - no wiggle room period! And of greater concern, there is no money sitting available to lease extra quota from the commercial sector for us to continue our fishery as we did in 2009. Another important fact is: Canada's 2010 halibut TAC will be set close to or slightly less than 2009. (900,000 + lbs for recreational sector)

Based on the above information the big "train wreck" approaches!</u> It appears we can not have the same season in 2010 as we had in 2009 unless something major occurs to change the above information. The deputy minister of DFO indicated this halibut allocation disaster is a priority but apparently nothing has been done for months and months. Remember too tourism being down played a part in less halibut fishing through lodge operations in 2009. Some rumours have a June 1st to August 15th season with 1 per day and 2 possession but nothing has been confirmed. [V] (the aforementioned is one and only one idea to keep halibut angling open during the busy time of year). However, as you well know I (on behalf of the Victoria SFAB committee) am absolutely against the season being shortened like that as it throws our area under the bus preventing access during the best halibut fishing times of year(early and late season)

The only positive piece of news is that DFO has suggested they will advise the recreational sector earlier (supposed to have done so already) about when the opening for 2010 halibut season will happen, but will not confirm the daily bag and possession limits until after discussions with SFAB and following the January IPHC meetings.


God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
 
we sporties are always the ones to give up something we gave up a lot on salmon fishing and it hasnt made any difference at all once its gone we will lose more ten a year will soon be five or less and we wont save anythingwill just be more for someone else to take halibut are doing great iphc says theres lots and they have been doing an excellent job with halibut
 
For many of us here a June 1st opening would mean a 0 annual limit, as most of us switch over to exclusively salmon trips by then. I would rather have 10 per season and a March to October season myself.
 
I'd like to have seen the numbers. 1 per day would have been just fine for me for a fuill season, I had more bookings then I ever had this year, which was good considering the draconian Hali regs we had. One per day is fine with me. As far as the guys who I know that were down %60, well, it's what happens when you sell "meat" trips. Business is Business.

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com
 
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