What?......

[jeffywestcoast]

Thanks for the link Klob and congrats on the new Wellcraft, what a bad-butt fishing machine! saw a picture on the french creek thread

 

[Rum Buddies]

for the record they experimented with at the Cowichan hatchery with keeping fish 9 months or close to a year(can't recall exactly) versus the normal short stay - the results were negligible. Certainly if the fish are healthy and disease free then we should be sending them out and monitoring the returns but its far from a guarantee that they'll do any better then normal hatch jobs. Every fish counts in the inlet these days though.

 

[Seafever]

On the Omega site a DFO person is quoted as saying that while the S-1 smolt does survive better...it has a tendency to return earlier ...so the returning fish are smaller......

But they say lots of things.......

 

[jeffywestcoast]

if these are healthy fish why are they going to be destroyed ? DFO has to give a more clear answer then, we don't want them., give the public a reason that's all im saying..

 

[GDW]

So now we want farmed chinooks released into the ocean? Make up your mind guys!!!

 

[Rockfish]

So now we want farmed chinooks released into the ocean? Make up your mind guys!!!

You seem to be having a little difficulty with the obvious distinctions.

These are not alien Atlantic Salmon with diseases that evolved in a different ocean than Pacific Salmon.

These are Healthy Pacific Chinook Salmon smolts that are to be released; no different than what occurs in hatcheries for Pacific Salmon all along the coast. I understand the USA spends about a billion dollars a year on their Pacific Salmon hatchery programs and most on this forum and I would think a few Killer Whales are raving about the results.

They are a $50,000. gift we should all be thankful for.

They are not going to be raised to adulthood in open net pen feed lots (FARMS), which is where the serious risks and problems develop.

You did not happen to get a job with the Net Pen Industry or DFO over the weekend did you? LOL.

Pacific Salmon belong here; introduced European strain alien Atlantic Salmon do not.

 

[Birdsnest]

I read this on another forum than better describes the situation:

A hatchery is not basically a fish farm. There's a big difference between raising fish for food, and raising fish for intended release. A farm is a farm, regardless of whether it is on land or at sea. If you want to raise fish for food, you are selecting for different characteristics than you would if you are intending to produce fish that will adapt well to a natural environment. No different than releasing a few nice big grain fed cows into the Northern BC forest to fend for themselves. They may do very well when eating out of a trough, but they don't have the genetics to do well when out in the wild. Take a look at anything we cultivate for food and see how closely it resembles the wild form (sheep, cows, strawberries, chickens). Very different than what we would do if the intention was producing a creature for release into the wild.

Fish farms (like Omega) will select for certain characteristics. Not uncommon to breed a few large males with many females to try to produce bigger, faster growing fish. Nothing wrong with that at all if your intention is big fish for market. If you're releasing fish into the wild in the hopes they come back and spawn, it's probably better to not have a few thousand brothers and sisters courting each other back on the grounds.


I've got little issue with releasing these fish, but for the proponent to be touting it as the saving grace of the Alberni Inlet Chinook stock is quite misguided. These things will be seal bait.I see no benefit to releasing them, and some (admittedly low) risk to wild stocks from this action. I primarily have issue with the misrepresentation of the situation by the proponent, and the (not unexpected) take of this thing hook line and sinker by the (supposedly) anti farming crowd, who are now apparently in full support of releasing farmed Chinook into the wild to intermingle with their wild brethren.

I also believe that just because they are "immaculate" does not mean they are free of the viruses such as PVR, ISA or IHN. Just sayin. Hatchery production may be facing new challenges based on the results of the upcoming court case. Something to think about.

 

[jeffywestcoast]

their must be some sort of problem with these fish, other then they will return early, of course they will return early they are a year older..that's a given. I am in no way a proponent of farmed fish. but explain to me the difference here, these are healthy juvenile chinook salmon and if they are free of nasty pathogens i see no reason for them to not be released.

 

[bigbruce]

So now we want farmed chinooks released into the ocean? Make up your mind guys!!!

Yes - just like all those other hatchery fish releases we see. Why not?? Surely you're not equating fish hatcheries with fish farms???

 

[GDW]

Agree with birdsnest for once about some of what he posted.

A hatchery usually takes native salmon from its own river and breeds multiple pairs for release. Where did these chinooks come from? From wild stock? I doubt it?

If they are wild fish raised in a fish farm fine - release them. If they are farm fish from who knows where with who knows what then no thanks I'm against farmed fish in the pacific even if I might catch one someday. Yes this is different then atlantics and it is different then net pens but we don't need every joe with a fish farm raising chinooks and releasing them into the wild to build trust with anglers.

You asked if I got a net pen job? HAH! Look he easy your bought by the industry you might catch one of these guys someday so all of a sudden they are alright. It's the opposite I'm against farmed fish you are for AND against farmed fish which gets confusing. It's like the slot limit this fish is ok but that ones not this ones really bad but that one is bad unless its released into the wild... Huh?

I'd rather shut down that fish farm plant or turn it into a hatchery for local stock vrs. allowing them to raise their own fish then release the excess to look good in the community. The inlet needs more salmon but releasing various farm stock is not the solution to the problem.

 

[ClayoquotKid]

Agree with birdsnest for once about some of what he posted.

A hatchery usually takes native salmon from its own river and breeds multiple pairs for release. Where did these chinooks come from? From wild stock? I doubt it?

If they are wild fish raised in a fish farm fine - release them. If they are farm fish from who knows where with who knows what then no thanks I'm against farmed fish in the pacific even if I might catch one someday. Yes this is different then atlantics and it is different then net pens but we don't need every joe with a fish farm raising chinooks and releasing them into the wild to build trust with anglers.

You asked if I got a net pen job? HAH! Look he easy your bought by the industry you might catch one of these guys someday so all of a sudden they are alright. It's the opposite I'm against farmed fish you are for AND against farmed fish which gets confusing. It's like the slot limit this fish is ok but that ones not this ones really bad but that one is bad unless its released into the wild... Huh?

I'd rather shut down that fish farm plant or turn it into a hatchery for local stock vrs. allowing them to raise their own fish then release the excess to look good in the community. The inlet needs more salmon but releasing various farm stock is not the solution to the problem.

They are the same Robertson Creek chinook that currently get released as S0's.
http://www.avtimes.net/news/local/hatchery-wants-to-donate-65-000-chinook-1.232216

 

[GDW]

Well I stand corrected then. Why is Robertson hatchery giving (selling?) fish to aquaculture? Our hatcheries are going to go down the drain with fish farms if the latter ever happens - at least that's what they want us to believe.

 

[IronNoggin]

By "aquaculture " fish you mean these fish are started off there for fish farms?

NO! The broodstock for this production came from Robertson Creek, and was the EXACT SAME as the broodstock employed by that facility.

Is this a "one off" for Omega?

NO. They have been involved with both coho and chinook enhancement for some time now. They have released 2 year fish into the Sarita system (which of course was one hell of a battle to get accepted), as well as Nahmint chinook enhancement efforts.

Why do they want to give this particular batch away?

It will validate what their research has indicated and has been well proven in several facilities south of the line. 2-year releases tend to drive the survivorship and return rate well up. Doing their part to help with the wild stocks and be a "Good Neighbor".

I also believe that just because they are "immaculate" does not mean they are free of the viruses such as PVR, ISA or IHN. Just sayin. Hatchery production may be facing new challenges based on the results of the upcoming court case. Something to think about.

They have been held in an isolated and pristine environment since fertilization. In fact, they are most likely "cleaner" than those produced by the local federal hatchery. And, they have indeed been tested for virus and pathogen presence - nothing found whatsoever.

More on the issue from last night's news: http://www.cheknews.ca/?bckey=AQ~~,...795rND&bclid=975107450001&bctid=2492167722001

And on it goes...

Nog

 

[IronNoggin]

Well I stand corrected then. Why is Robertson hatchery giving (selling?) fish to aquaculture? Our hatcheries are going to go down the drain with fish farms if the latter ever happens - at least that's what they want us to believe.

The fish were intentionally provided to Omega as a back-up plan should something go awry in the Robertson Creek Hatchery. They were targeted for release back into the system, and NEVER designed for farm production. I sincerely doubt we will ever witness a return to farming pacific salmon - regardless of origin - in BC waters.

Cheers,
Nog

 

[Rockfish]

The net pen industry and PR types latest tactic seems to be that if we don’t back down on going after the Atlantic Salmon Net Pens they will use their clout with DFO and the Harper Government to close down what little remains of our Canadian Pacific Salmon Enhancement Programs that DFO has been grossly underfunding and cutting back on since the 1990’s. Pacific salmon are after all competition for the net pen Atlantic Salmon industry. There are already some early hints of this so watch for it. This will of course lead to a political fisheries shitt storm the likes of which we have not seen on this coast and that is saying something given the other crap we are dealing with.

 

[bigbruce]

One of the issues here is that the DFO hatcheries normally release fish after only 3 months. The Omega fish have been raised in fresh water for 18 months - at a significantly higher cost. The DFO could not afford such conditions on a go forward basis so probably would not want to see anything that might prove the return data would justify the additional cost.

 

[Rockfish]

One of the issues here is that the DFO hatcheries normally release fish after only 3 months. The Omega fish have been raised in fresh water for 18 months - at a significantly higher cost. The DFO could not afford such conditions on a go forward basis so probably would not want to see anything that might prove the return data would justify the additional cost.

Pretty good analysis. Right now there will be conversations going on in the PM’s office debating the PR black eye they will take if they force these Chinook to be killed vrs the potential for a driving force to increase funding in a program area they would like to cut more funding from because they have other places to waste that money. Lets hope Pacific Salmon, our Way of Life and the Economy of BC are the winners here.

 

[ClayoquotKid]

Pretty good analysis. Right now there will be conversations going on in the PM’s office debating the PR black eye they will take if they force these Chinook to be killed vrs the potential for a driving force to increase funding in a program area they would like to cut more funding from because they have other places to waste that money. Lets hope Pacific Salmon, our Way of Life and the Economy of BC are the winners here.

I think it is a good idea.
http://www.mainstreamcanada.com/new-hope-sarita-chinook-thanks-salmon-farmers-0

 

[jeffywestcoast]

Thanks for clarifying IronNoggin.. i see what it is all about now ,the all mighty DOLLAR... Hope to see these fish released into the river instead of youthanized.

 

[Rockfish]

Thanks for clarifying IronNoggin.. i see what it is all about now ,the all mighty DOLLAR... Hope to see these fish released into the river instead of youthanized.

Congratulations you now understand the first cynical principal of fishery management politics or at least part of it. The Principal is that it is ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY. This holds true whether it is a DFO budget/funding issue, business or regulatory issues that impact on fish or their habitat, conflicts between the sectors and even internal conflicts between sub groups of the same sector including the sport sector.

The reasoning and rationalizations will of course always be prettied up, couched in politically sensitive verbiage with the illusion of being principled and dripping with the language of concern, sharing, fairness, equity, rights, economic necessity and conservation; but peel back the layers and you will always find the money issue and the related winners and losers. A decade or two of studying fishery politics will make you a little cynical.