What can WE do to help save the salmon?

[Englishman]

The mark of a man without a good argument is to attack the messenger instead of refuting the message.

This from a person who has not presented a single shred of scientific evidence, dismisses the evidence damning the salmon feed lots, and accuses the anti's of a variety of faults, foibles, and mis-guided attempts at correcting the current situation. And still won't go near the biology 101 arguments and evidence, but attacks the person who tries to bring science into it.

If ever there was a hypocrite in this world, you are the consummate example.

 

[absolon]

No discussing the viability of closed containment with YOU does not interest me at all. However, if you want to continue with how closed containment will never work and the only way the "Norwegian fish farms" can make a profit is "open net pens" would you mind explaining why the government of Canada feels it necessary to do this, along with their other ongoing programs?

"Under AIMAP, the Government of Canada is investing $23.5 million over five years to support the development of a vibrant and sustainable Canadian aquaculture industry that contributes to the economies of rural, coastal and First Nations communities. This is the second year of the five-year program."

I can certainly see why you didn't post a link to the AIMAP program information page. Once there, it becomes abundantly clear that the program deals with the large range of aquaculture and isn't something addressed at salmon farms. For anyone interested in facts, they can be found here:

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/back-fiche/2010/mar01-eng.htm

Obviously, your point has no relevance at all to the viability of closed containment for salmon.

 

[absolon]

This from a person who has not presented a single shred of scientific evidence, dismisses the evidence damning the salmon feed lots, and accuses the anti's of a variety of faults, foibles, and mis-guided attempts at correcting the current situation. And still won't go near the biology 101 arguments and evidence, but attacks the person who tries to bring science into it.

If ever there was a hypocrite in this world, you are the consummate example.

quo est demonstratum

 

[Gunsmith]

quo est demonstratum

Well having so eloquently put it I will go with your science and my opinion is now get these cesspools they call net pens out of BC waters.No alternatives just get them out.

 

[absolon]

I'm not quoting science. I've been clear from the get go that I am not presenting arguments in support of the farms.

My point was, is and shall remain that in order to reverse the decline of the salmon, the focus has to broaden beyond the battle against fish farms. All this rhetorical posturing that has sprung up in response is a defense of the anti-farm lobby and has very little to do with anything I have said.

 

[GLG]

I can certainly see why you didn't post a link to the AIMAP program information page. Once there, it becomes abundantly clear that the program deals with the large range of aquaculture and isn't something addressed at salmon farms. For anyone interested in facts, they can be found here:

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/back-fiche/2010/mar01-eng.htm

Obviously, your point has no relevance at all to the viability of closed containment for salmon.

Facts, funny you should start using them.
Why don't we look at some facts from the website you linked to.
The AIMAP program covers a lot of things in your special friendly industry.
Take a look at this page to see where the R&D money is going in the AIMAP program.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/sustainable-durable/index-eng.htm
You can look to the left and pick out different years and see what project is being worked on.
See all the projects that have to do with the "Virus" problem.
Wonder why your side is so concerned with that.
Could it be your side knows something that they are not sharing with the public.


How come you don't answer my questions.
Too hot in the kitchen?
GLG

 

[Charlie]

I can certainly see why you didn't post a link to the AIMAP program information page. Once there, it becomes abundantly clear that the program deals with the large range of aquaculture and isn't something addressed at salmon farms. For anyone interested in facts, they can be found here:

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/back-fiche/2010/mar01-eng.htm

Obviously, your point has no relevance at all to the viability of closed containment for salmon.

Nice try "For anyone interested in facts" why would you post a link to the 'Projects Funded Under the Aquaculture Innovation and Market Access Program (AIMAP) in Atlantic Canada for 2009-2010'?

Must of been just a small oversite on your part, right? Or, was that an intentional try of yours to twist and mislead? How about we start with, if you guestion something I post, feel free to ask for my reference? I am always willing and glad to provide them. As in:

Minister Shea Announces New Investment to Support Innovative Aquaculture Projects in B.C.July 8, 2009

---

Campbell River, B.C. – Entrepreneurs involved in British Columbia’s aquaculture sector are receiving additional federal funding to help them innovate their operations, boost their productivity and improve their economic performance. Today Minister of Fisheries and Oceans Gail Shea announced that six B.C. businesses will receive more than $930,000 in federal funding to help them strengthen their businesses.

“When we invest in a stronger aquaculture sector, we are investing in more jobs and new business opportunities for communities throughout coastal B.C.,” said Minister Shea. “Our goal is to make the Canadian aquaculture industry stronger, more innovative and more environmentally sustainable in this increasingly competitive sector.”

The federal funding is being provided through the Aquaculture Innovation and Market Access Program (AIMAP). The Government of British Columbia, industry and universities are also contributing an additional $848,000 to these six projects.

Businesses receiving these investments include the B.C. Shellfish Growers Association, Odyssey Shellfish Ltd., Marine Harvest Canada, Walcan Seafoods Ltd., Deane V. Larson, and Agrimarine Industries Inc.

Specific projects being supported include testing net biofouling management technology, capturing and reusing fish effluent, introducing new mechanized clam harvest and automated oyster grading technology to B.C., testing ultraviolet light as a water discharge sterilizer; and adopting a parasite suppression technology for farmed salmon.

Under AIMAP, the Government of Canada is investing $23.5 million over five years to support the development of a vibrant and sustainable Canadian aquaculture industry that contributes to the economies of rural, coastal and First Nations communities. This is the second year of the five-year program.

For more information on Department of Fisheries and Oceans’s aquaculture program and the AIMAP application process, visit: www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/sustainable-durable/index-eng.htm. For information on the projects mentioned above, please view the media backgrounder on these initiatives.

Here, let me provide the correct link!
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/npress-communique/2009/pr16-eng.htm

 

[absolon]

GLG, Because you want to argue about salmon farming and as I've been very clear from the beginning, I'm not making arguments to support it.

And you guys accuse me of hijacking the thread.......................

 

[absolon]

Good one Charlie. I posted a page to clarify the purpose of the program, you complain that it is outdated, then post one a year older to try to make your point.

Let me provide you with the correct link, one that discusses current projects:

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/sustainable-durable/projects-2011-12-projets-eng.htm

 

[GLG]

I'm not quoting science. I've been clear from the get go that I am not presenting arguments in support of the farms.

My point was, is and shall remain that in order to reverse the decline of the salmon, the focus has to broaden beyond the battle against fish farms. All this rhetorical posturing that has sprung up in response is a defense of the anti-farm lobby and has very little to do with anything I have said.

Have you ever used Google to track your posts on the Internet?
You stick out like the head of a nail and that's why you get the hammer.

Ever heard of PSF.ca they are but one outfit that's has worked for many years to bring back the salmon.
All that work is going down the tube because the salmon feedlots are killing the wild salmon.
The facts are clear to anyone except those with greed in their hearts.
You like to point others in directions to your solutions to the problem of the wild salmon decline.
I have been on the front line of those solution for many years.
We have given our spare time and spare money for years just to see things get worse.

Now there is lot's of people that are going for the root cause.
You and your buddies are in the cross-hairs.
Is it working? Yup that's why your here right now.
GLG

 

[Charlie]

quo est demonstratum

FYI... "est" works, but "erat" is actually correct term there! And sorry to advise you, you have proven NOTHING!

Score now "35" - "0" Would you mind posting just one (1) that is just (1) valid reason why "open net pens" should stay on any salmon migration route?

 

[Charlie]

Good one Charlie. I posted a page to clarify the purpose of the program, you complain that it is outdated, then post one a year older to try to make your point.

Let me provide you with the correct link, one that discusses current projects:

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/sustainable-durable/projects-2011-12-projets-eng.htm

Again the "twist" and "misleading" what part of $23.5 million over five years and second year are YOU MISSING!

"Under AIMAP, the Government of Canada is investing $23.5 million over five years to support the development of a vibrant and sustainable Canadian aquaculture industry that contributes to the economies of rural, coastal and First Nations communities. This is the second year of the five-year program." Let me count those five years out for you! 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.

Any bets on how much Canada is going to provide those "fish farmers" over the next five years?

 

[absolon]

est or erat, the point remains the same.

I'm missing nothing. That program covers the broad range of cultured species. It is not a program focused on salmon farms. I'm afraid your estimation of what proportion of those funds may go to salmon farms remains nothing more than your estimation; given the historical proportion of the funds already issued that have gone to farms compared to the funds that have gone elsewhere, I suggest your estimation provides evidence of nothing but your own estimation. As such it is entirely irrelevant.

And it still has no relevance to the potential viability of closed containment. I don't blame you for not being interested in further discussion on that topic.

Have I ever suggested that the farms should stay on migration routes?

 

[absolon]

Have you ever used Google to track your posts on the Internet?
You stick out like the head of a nail and that's why you get the hammer.

Ever heard of PSF.ca they are but one outfit that's has worked for many years to bring back the salmon.
All that work is going down the tube because the salmon feedlots are killing the wild salmon.
The facts are clear to anyone except those with greed in their hearts.
You like to point others in directions to your solutions to the problem of the wild salmon decline.
I have been on the front line of those solution for many years.
We have given our spare time and spare money for years just to see things get worse.

Now there is lot's of people that are going for the root cause.
You and your buddies are in the cross-hairs.
Is it working? Yup that's why your here right now.
GLG

No, I'm here because of a confluence of circumstances, it was a very rare opportunity to get an answer to a question I wanted an answer to.

 

[Gunsmith]

Sorry Abs I must be just an uneducated boor I can't really figure what you are up to.

 

[Charlie]

And it still has no relevance to the potential viability of closed containment. I don't blame you for not being interested in further discussion on that topic.

Have I ever suggested that the farms should stay on migration routes?

Oh... I don't mind discussing closed containment - just not going to get into any long drawn out debates, as neither are presently viable!

So, I believe we might finally have something we agree on? YOU AGREE, fish farms should NOT be on migration routes, right?

 

[absolon]

Sorry Abs I must be just an uneducated boor I can't really figure what you are up to.

I'm not up to anything. As stated, I just came for the question, one even Charlie agreed was reasonable. Foxsea stepped in and got the troll schtick started, mob mentality took over and here we are. There's been enough strawmen built to use a section's worth of hay and I think the troll word has been worn out.

It's been enlightening to say the least, but I'm about done since the whole point now seems to be to pick fights about salmon farms and as I have stated repeatedly, I've no interest in the kind of pissing contests this place is notorious for. I'm a firm believer that everyone has a right to their own opinion whether I agree with it or not but that doesn't seem to be the culture here.

 

[sammyslabber]

Here's a rebutle in todays Times Colonist from Mary Ellen Walling,B.C Salmon Farmers Association executive director/DFO spokesman,Frank Stanek was also quick to defend their take on - Alexander Mortons recent tests on farmed salmon purchased from local Vancouver supermarkets.Do you think they're also starting to feel the heat absolon? http://www.timescolonist.com/Salmon+virus+claim+disputed/6469099/story.html

 

[Charlie]

I'm not up to anything. As stated, I just came for the question, one even Charlie agreed was reasonable.

It's been enlightening to say the least, but I'm about done since the whole point now seems to be to pick fights about salmon farms and as I have stated repeatedly, I've no interest in the kind of pissing contests this place is notorious for. I'm a firm believer that everyone has a right to their own opinion whether I agree with it or not but that doesn't seem to be the culture here.

Yes I did, as your original question was valid and it was answered! However, YOU are the one that continued down this road - NOT me! So, now I ask...

Charlie, no response to the points I raised? .....Really?............... Really?

absolon, no response to the question I asked? ... Really? ............ Really?

Do you agree or not agree... ATLANTIC FISH FARMS SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM THE "WILD" SALMON MIGRATION ROUTES?

 

[Foxsea]

absolon, no response to the question I asked? ... Really? ............ Really?

Charlie, you may not get a response because

... It's been enlightening to say the least, but I'm about done ...

I'm hoping he's true to his word and that he is done. That'd be the best news ever, since I heard that closed containment farms are making money!