To Foam or not...

[BarkleySounder]

Hello,

I have a 1977 Double Eagle 206 I'm at the stage where I need to decide to foam under the floor or not.

When I pulled it up the foam was soaking wet. It was all taken out, and now I'm trying to figure out if it's worthwhile putting back in. I'm sure it's been discussed before but I haven't had luck finding the thread's.

Any input is appreciated!

Pictures attached of current floor state.

 

[Connor D]

@Doubleheader

 

[stephennicholls531]

I went with having a professional spray in closed cell foam on my 17.5’ DE Project, after I had replaced all the stringers and bulkheads and before the floor went in.. If you ever have the misfortune to whack something hard and split or hole the hull below the waterline, that foam will likely give you the time and an opportunity to recover the boat - and all that work you just put into it. Without the foam in there, it’s probably going to be headed to the bottom before you can do much other than call for help. ...my two cents worth.

 

[Doubleheader]

@Doubleheader

What now?

 

[Doubleheader]

Hello,

I have a 1977 Double Eagle 206 I'm at the stage where I need to decide to foam under the floor or not.

When I pulled it up the foam was soaking wet. It was all taken out, and now I'm trying to figure out if it's worthwhile putting back in. I'm sure it's been discussed before but I haven't had luck finding the thread's.

Any input is appreciated!

Pictures attached of current floor state.

If you don’t mind a little noisier ride I wouldn’t worry with a DE about adding structural integrity with flotation. Have to be a pretty hard rock to punch a hole in er. Done properly it has its advantages, but shotty glass work over top and random screws, bolts and holes in floor sealed with simple adhesives will allow moisture in over time again. Hollow with limber holes is a safe bet.

 

[mbowers]

Hello,

I have a 1977 Double Eagle 206 I'm at the stage where I need to decide to foam under the floor or not.

When I pulled it up the foam was soaking wet. It was all taken out, and now I'm trying to figure out if it's worthwhile putting back in. I'm sure it's been discussed before but I haven't had luck finding the thread's.

Any input is appreciated!

Pictures attached of current floor state.

Flotation is always good. Right thing to do is attach the foam to the underside of the floor and leave a gap along the hull so any water can drain through the foam and collect in the bilge.

 

[Doubleheader]

Flotation is always good. Right thing to do is attach the foam to the underside of the floor and leave a gap along the hull so any water can drain through the foam and collect in the bilge.

Never heard of this, kind of eliminates its second purpose of rigidity. I can’t see it staying attached to the underside of floor forever, it will be wet one day.

 

[Foxsea]

Do as stephennicholls has done: professionally applied, 2 part, closed cell foam. Clean the hull well first. It bonds very well to almost everything, is totally waterproof, will last for decades, stiffens the hull somewhat, insulates and provides flotation.

 

[macro]

If your totally paranoid about having to remove it or having water get it. Cut insulation foam and put that in place. Either way. In my mind. It's like boating with out life jackets on board. Its totally fine until it's not......

 

[myles]

Do as stephennicholls has done: professionally applied, 2 part, closed cell foam. Clean the hull well first. It bonds very well to almost everything, is totally waterproof, will last for decades, stiffens the hull somewhat, insulates and provides flotation.

i'd do what foxsea says. Just make sure water can't get in and interprotect the hull so osmosis doesn't let water in from below The boat will be a ****-kicker with all the extra stiffness and much quieter. If you are worried about water intrusion into the foam, then don't do it. it all boils down to can you minimize water intrusion? it means a lot of pre-planning where screws will go etc. I think it's worth the effort but if done poorly then don't bother. Looks like a fun project, keep it up.

 

[BigBird007]

I have done it both ways with and without the foam. My vote would be for foam as it’s a much quieter boat in the end. Without foam it’s sounds like a empty box getting pounded on when in the chop.

 

[brutus]

My old wellcraft, is sprayed with close cell foam, and water does not penetrate the foam period. Not sure if it was done when they re and re the boat or factory but I’ve owned the boat going on 6 years and it is dry as can be

 

[Drewski Canuck]

Sorry to burst your bubble on closed cell foam. You see, it is a chemical reaction that causes the gas, which forms the bubble, that bursts, and forms more bubbles. Hence it is not really closed cell. If you look at Styrofoam SM, or a coffee cup made of foam, that is closed cell.

Both my baby brother and I have rebuilt boats and had to cut out water logged floatation foam. In my case the water logged foam added about 300 pounds over time. The stuff can hold ALOT of water! Trouble is, nothing will seal like a spray foam, and you always need floatation foam by law on boats under 28 foot. You can cut sections of Styrofoam SM, or white foam block, and put them in place and spray foam around to reduce the water logging effect, but either way, this is a problem with a humid environment over time.

Bigger problem on floatation foam where you have wood stringers is the moisture is always on the wood once it soaks. You could change over to composite material for the stringers, but that is expensive!

Either way, if something goes wrong and you do swamp the boat, you will be happy that you re applied floatation foam to the boat. That is a must do on every boat rebuild. There simply is no way to guarantee that an accident or rogue wave will not occur if you are on the salt long enough.

Drewski

 

[gungadin]

I have seen a somewhat different approach. It was done on an older 16ft open aluminium boat that the owner installed hatches in the seats (after removing the foam in the seats). He need to still have flotation and added plywood floors between the seats, securing them with brackets attached to the seats. He knew that water was going to get under the plywood, but instead of using spray in foam, he bought a lot of pool noodles and filled up the area underneath the boards with fitted lengths. Seems to work.

 

[brutus]

Sorry to burst your bubble on closed cell foam. You see, it is a chemical reaction that causes the gas, which forms the bubble, that bursts, and forms more bubbles. Hence it is not really closed cell. If you look at Styrofoam SM, or a coffee cup made of foam, that is closed cell.

Both my baby brother and I have rebuilt boats and had to cut out water logged floatation foam. In my case the water logged foam added about 300 pounds over time. The stuff can hold ALOT of water! Trouble is, nothing will seal like a spray foam, and you always need floatation foam by law on boats under 28 foot. You can cut sections of Styrofoam SM, or white foam block, and put them in place and spray foam around to reduce the water logging effect, but either way, this is a problem with a humid environment over time.

Bigger problem on floatation foam where you have wood stringers is the moisture is always on the wood once it soaks. You could change over to composite material for the stringers, but that is expensive!

Either way, if something goes wrong and you do swamp the boat, you will be happy that you re applied floatation foam to the boat. That is a must do on every boat rebuild. There simply is no way to guarantee that an accident or rogue wave will not occur if you are on the salt long enough.

Drewski

You can burst my foam bubble all you want lol, my pod is also filled with the same foam, I pull it off a month ago, water was getting in it, the foam was dry, not water log whatsoever. Might be some special foam but it is dry. There is a layer of crust about 1/2 thick on the surface and you can’t even poke it with an exacto knife

 

[mbowers]

Never heard of this, kind of eliminates its second purpose of rigidity. I can’t see it staying attached to the underside of floor forever, it will be wet one day.

Here's a cross section showing one way to do it. As long as it is mechanically contained even if the foam block detached from the floor it can't go anywhere.



If anyone thinks their foam is dry after exposure to water, I encourage you to dig down to the bottom of the compartment and sample the water content there. This is the foam from the bottom of my 2yr old boat. Shady boat builder installed cheap, leaky rod holders over the foam.

Plastic balls are another option to deal with water. My buddy says no issues with funny noises.

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[brutus]

Here's a cross section showing one way to do it. As long as it is mechanically contained even if the foam block detached from the floor it can't go anywhere.

View attachment 65732

If anyone thinks their foam is dry after exposure to water, I encourage you to dig down to the bottom of the compartment and sample the water content there. This is the foam from the bottom of my 2yr old boat. Shady boat builder installed cheap, leaky rod holders over the foam.

Plastic balls are another option to deal with water. My buddy says no issues with funny noises.

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Ok but your talking 300lbs, 7+ 5 gallon pales of water ???. Not sure about the foam you had in your boat but the stuff in my boat,good luck squeezing it with your hand like that, the foam you squeeze that water out of looks like Home Depot spray bomb to fill door cracks lol

 

[Doubleheader]

Here's a cross section showing one way to do it. As long as it is mechanically contained even if the foam block detached from the floor it can't go anywhere.

View attachment 65732

If anyone thinks their foam is dry after exposure to water, I encourage you to dig down to the bottom of the compartment and sample the water content there. This is the foam from the bottom of my 2yr old boat. Shady boat builder installed cheap, leaky rod holders over the foam.

Plastic balls are another option to deal with water. My buddy says no issues with funny noises.

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HA, ya I’m well aware of the flotation process in tin boats. I was referring to a real glass boat lol

 

[Connor D]

What now?

Someone needed your double eagle expertise

 

[mbowers]

Ok but your talking 300lbs, 7+ 5 gallon pales of water ???. Not sure about the foam you had in your boat but the stuff in my boat,good luck squeezing it with your hand like that, the foam you squeeze that water out of looks like Home Depot spray bomb to fill door cracks lol

I don't know what brand of foam that was, just that it was full of water. The outer edge was tough but the insides were soft. Suspect most pourable foam is like that.
Looking at one brand of flotation foam it is 94 percent closed cell (assuming perfect installation I would guess) so maybe 6 percent water in "closed cell" foam after water exposure..