There's a new guide in town ....

[halimark]

Would not be willing to call guides commercial, they are sporties with us, we have same riggers, same braid, rods, reels, HDS, same boats and most gear. What they do have is huge commitment, knowledge and time on water to keep current and consistantly on fish, all in a risky buisness as the whims of DFO and commy loby effect them. I know how much an 18.6 DE costs to run, I have not done any business planning model to find costs for a day fishing. Just never saw a reason to come down on a guy who's model is different than most. I would expect he would have same insurance for himself and guests or else?? As long as he complies maybe afford him a chance.

Or maybe he is like some of the Wicked Tuna guys with millionaire dads who set them up to keep them busy and out of trouble?? Doin it for fun? Ha ha

HM

 

[profisher]

I have no problem with anyone starting up a business and going after the low end of the market...just do it on the up and up like the rest of us. I had to pay the costs involved in being legit with TC and so should everyone else. Every guided charter boat needs a "C" number showing it is registered as a commercial passenger vessel and then needs a current compliance sticker to show the boat and operator comply with vessel and operator requirements. In my mind the most important of all of these requirements is the proper first aid course that is not only passed but kept current as required so you don't forget what you have learned. Of the courses I took I felt I got the most out of the first aid and also felt that what I learned would likely be useful at some point in time.

 

[Old Seadog]

Guys like this come and go every year, in every market and in virtually every industry. Those running respected, reputable businesses are rarely affected negatively in the long term.

From what I have seen, for the most part, Professional guides seem to have a rate structure that is pretty comparable within different regional markets. At the end of the day, this is a free market and should remain so. If Joe Blow wants to take his courses and get the proper insurance to take out paying customers for $299/day, he is well within his rights to do so. But his business model is probably unsustainable unless he's god's gift to fishing and his boat runs on sea water so he's not likely going to last. The guys doing it without proper insurance etc. are taking on massive risks and consumers should learn and understand those risks as it can have a direct negative affect on their lives. The best way to deal with this is to educate customers and potential customers with the risks of a unlicenced outfit and the benefits of a professional. That's pretty true for all industries.

I know professional guides and have used professional guides in the past. They are great guys and are providing people a safe service. They work long hours and have to spend alot of money, just to take people out. So they should get payed...they earn every cent of it. Use a professional and not a fly by night guy. Be safe not Dumb !!!!

 

[halimark]

Agreed profisher, must state that certification is reasonable new and a hot topic with many. I have had many beer with current guides where this becomes a taboo topic after a few wets. In my eyes process has brought a higher level of proffecionalism to your industry. Good on all who completed. Your statement on FA is right on, I do have advanced FA and a current instructor ticket, used 2 times in life and very rewarding, one of my best investments. All persons participating in your industry should be legit for safety of all. Lets hope person post is about does.

HM

 

[terrin]

I don't think too many guides make a living coming home empty either. At least not very often.

 

[Birdsnest]

I would like to have a jet boat to fish rivers but after the cost of a jet boat and the maintenance and, storage, up keep of trailers, Gas, the list goes on and on... I chose to hire a guide on the river and use his boat. He/she supplies everything I need. Saves me mega bucks this way because it costs far less to hire a guide than to have my own jet boat. The scenario is no different with salt water guides. Its not commercial fishing but a resource for other sport fishers to experience that kind of fishing. Unfortunately the only people who understand the cost associated with guiding are those who have had to buy and maintain a boat. Oh well, it is what it is.

Sadly while TC has all these regulations for the safety of the public there is ZERO enforcement so guys will do what ever they please.

 

[Peahead]

My first thought after reading that fellow's ad was it is probably an illegal operation (lacking proper TC credentials and using a TC non-compliant boat). Some of the posts above suggesting the charging at this unusually low price is ok might be missing this fact - It sounds as if they are saying that operating illegally is ok for some "guides" because it provides a "guiding" service at very low cost for those people who can't afford the prices of legal professional guides !

....if the guy IS in fact operating legally then he does have a right to charge ridiculously lower rates if he wants ($299 for 9 hours is likely only covering his expenses but he may not even have that figured out!). If a guy has income from elsewhere and/or doesn't need an income from the guiding then this sort of undercutting can happen and is really a hobby only. The guy maybe doesn't realize his price might not be fair competition with the guides that need the income and charge the standard rates.

As far as 'Island Idiot' claiming that guides who guide their clients on sport fishing trips should fall into a 'commercial' sector fishery:
Nothing at all to do with his forum name just coincidence --- I suspect that he may have commercial ties or just doesn't understand the differences between the two sectors. Guides are taking guests sport fishing and following all the sport fishing regs using sport fishing gear and methods. A Guide is being paid to provide a sport fishing experience for his/her guests and the opportunity to catch a sport caught fish ..... being paid to provide a service to a sport fisherman doesn't turn that sport fishing into a commercial fishery...sorry but I had to chuckle about that one.

 

[Derby]

It is a profession, and as such should be considered commercial fishing, not recreation. Guides have no business being considered sports fishing. Its a business and a commercial operation. Guides need to create their own professional association and fight for their own quota, not be part of the sports fishing fleet. There, now I feel better......

This has been discussed over and over again.. we as a rec. fleet need to stand together & work together.. end of story...

 

[Reeltime]

............

 

[profisher]

Terrin, true...most top rod guides produce a catch as often as anyone on the water. But they can only produce fish based on what is available on any given day...the same applies to every fishermen. There are many slow days that offer a select few a single hook up for a day's fishing and those guides/anglers feel fortunate to have found that one fish. If whales make an early morning appearance then the odds of no fish are quite high for most. The point is, every fisherman...guide or not gets skunked. Most customers know the guide they are fishing with from previous trips and know that if they get skunked...so did almost everyone else. They still pay and understand...that is fishing! A reason why I tell customers...if you book a single day and that day is a sh&t day...you are outta luck. There is a reason why most lodges have 3-4 day packages. It allows you to have a crap day and still go home with a decent catch from the other days.

 

[gon fishin]

I would have posted " moldy chum Firefighter goes part time guide " but i couldn't find it but very relevant So if any one has it on thier hard drive I would love to see it again

 

[profisher]

That was a good one!

 

[ziggy]

Do you guys ever listen to yourself?

If I didn't own a boat, I would be hiring a guide to take me fishing just like thousands of other sports anglers that don't own a boat. The guides are providing transportation and information to licensed sport anglers. Pretty far from commercial fishing IMO. This wedge driving is exactly the kind of discussion the commercial sector likes to see on these forums. We have to be the largest group we can for a voice at the political level. We have to be united and stand up for the great opportunities we already have and hopefully will still have in the future for our children and grandchildren.

As for the original link, those guys seem to come and go and are posted up here for entertainment purposes I suppose. I would never hire a guy like that. Probably doesn't have the proper insurance yada yada etc.

Rec fishermen are by far the "largest group", with or without Charter operators? Nice that we share similar interests , but to pretend selling a fishing experience for thousands of dollars in some cases is not commercial is a stretch. Check out the costs of some of the lodges and tell me how many average Canadians can afford the experience? I recognise a four hour trip out of Sooke is different than a trip to Langara, but at the end of the day the reason the k number is a c number is for a valid reason IMO.

 

[banger17]

IF i would ever pay for a trip, it would be with a proven and reputable guide... however:

I don't understand why as soon as one of these outfits pops up, everyone posts and complains about it? Seems pretty clear that if the "real" guides were good at what they did and produced for a fair market price and were actually fun to hang out with on a boat for 8 hours, they wouldnt be so worried about some low-baller trashy outfit coming into town?

Its all going to come out in the wash as it usually does, and this guy likely wont be operating for too long if his business model is as crappy as everyone thinks it really is, so why bash and be one of the hottest threads on this site since the drinking ONE beer on a boat thread?

just playin devils advocate for a bit...

 

[vanisland]

Its not too hard to figure out why someone like this is going to draw so much criticism. They post an add for a service that most people charge a certain amount for and undercut them by not a few dollars but 50-65%. That's a huge difference and in any business that's going to raise eyebrows and **** off competitors, not a good way to enter the maket imo. This person, along with the others you see pop up every year are not looking to start a serious business, they are looking to fish for free. If they have all their certs and there boat has been tc approved and they have applied for there c numbers then go for it. You sure as hell wont make any friends at the dock and I would assume most people can tell a professional outfit from some joe blow trying to fish for free. Also just because you don't see C numbers on a boat doesn't mean they haven't applied for and been approved for them. TC when I called last year are about 10-12 months behind in issuing C numbers but a week or 2 after receiving your app they will send a letter out saying you were appoved or not and can start commercial activities at that time.

 

[Peahead]

IF i would ever pay for a trip, it would be with a proven and reputable guide... however:

I don't understand why as soon as one of these outfits pops up, everyone posts and complains about it? Seems pretty clear that if the "real" guides were good at what they did and produced for a fair market price and were actually fun to hang out with on a boat for 8 hours, they wouldnt be so worried about some low-baller trashy outfit coming into town?

Its all going to come out in the wash as it usually does, and this guy likely wont be operating for too long if his business model is as crappy as everyone thinks it really is, so why bash and be one of the hottest threads on this site since the drinking ONE beer on a boat thread?

just playin devils advocate for a bit...

I don't understand why on a forum when there are discussions about fishing issues with responses and opinions (like this thread) that there is always one who comes on and complains that there is a discussion about the topic ....funny really. How dare anyone discuss topics like this on a discussion forum !!! lol

Kidding aside , I agree with your "won't last long" theory but I don't think the guides posting opinions here are doing so due to them being worried .....I'd say its about being pi$$ed because there is a legal process to go through to be a pro guide and that there are a few who choose to skip that process. The ad in question looks suspiciously like one of those but of course not known as of yet. The fact that enforcement doesn't have the resources to effectively curtail the unlicensed activity is also I am sure part of the problem. Anyway it would be pretty strange to not have a topic like this discussed on a forum !!. The "imposter" BC dentist operating ( literally operating!) without proper or legal license and training comes to mind. I don't think the "real" dentists are worried about losing dental clients to the "imposter" but they sure would be interested in the matter and seeing it stopped!

And BTW I suspect that "guide" in the ad drinks more than one beer while "guiding" too ...... lol

 

[profisher]

When I first started guiding 29 years ago back in 1986 (Expo) the going rate in Sooke was $35.00 an hour with a 4 hour minimum. ($135.00 for 4 hrs) Today the Victoria guides are around the $100 an hour mark with a 5 hour minimum. ($500.00 for 5 hours) In Sooke the range for many is $70 to $85 an hour with 4 hours the minimum. ($280.00 to $340.00) I'm at $92.50 per hour for my 6 hour morning trips ($555.00) I don't have a government or any other pension already and this profession pays my mortgage, keeps food on my families table and allows me to contribute my share to the government and everyone else's CPP. In other words I'm not a cash guy who doesn't pay taxes on the income I earn. I formed a limited company, keep proper books and collect gst. How likely is it that this guy who will do 9 hours at $299.00 ($33.00 an hour) is contributing his share?

 

[banger17]

Valid and appreciate the responses, thanks guys! (I am not the "charter" operator by the way) haha.

If everyone had the same opinion and didnt challenge ideas and situations, would be a dull forum and life I suppose... I get why guys would be upset, just wasnt sure if it was related to the $ and "competition" issue or more the lack of credentials, quality and process, which I think I am understanding.

Like I said, I would support the guiding outfits as thats where I would put my trust as a consumer - just wanted to learn about the deeper issues and concerns from the gang.

Thanks Pea and others.

 

[terrin]

The "imposter" BC dentist operating ( literally operating!) without proper or legal license and training comes to mind. I don't think the "real" dentists are worried about losing dental clients to the "imposter" but they sure would be interested in the matter and seeing it stopped! [/QUOTE]

His clients knew when they were treated in a house for a lot cheaper than regular rates he wasn't licensed. But the poor girl in the interior was left severely brain damaged when the licensed dentist cut corners and he's still practicing to this day because he's licensed. Go figure

 

[profisher]

Well had a few minutes before my trip to check this guys boat out. Totally illegal!! No life ring, no radar reflector, no 360' mast light, not only no digital vhf radio interfaced with gps but no radio at all!!! I doubt he has the required TC approved life jackets etc etc. didn't even see a fire extinguisher.