The Beginning of the End of our fishery?

[oldtimer]

Derby for the members of the Forum, could you please explain the rational behind why the SFI has refused to endorse and support the PBPS and their mission?

 

[Fish Camp]

Do we as fishers still support hatchery chinook head return program?I understand that the program needs the salmon heads and there will be no data till july 15 and hopfully then we can start reporting again.Sure we could report inshore WCVI till july 15 ,but what if that fish is of fraser stock .

 

[Derby]

Derby for the members of the Forum, could you please explain the rational behind why the SFI has refused to endorse and support the PBPS and their mission?

Why it is so important that the PBPS seek SFI endorsement?

 

[oldtimer]

Derby the Seal problem is the major reason why our fishery is in such the terrible state. For many years the SFI has been the voice of the fishing community. On an issue of such monumental importance
it only seems reasonable to assume that the PBPS would have the backing of the SFI? I think that Forum members have a right to know why the SFI is not supporting the efforts of the PBPS.? Please explain to the members the reasons why this has happened?

 

[Derby]

You still haven't answered my question.. why is it so important to you Doug that we endorse PBPS??
You seem to be rolling along well......

 

[wildmanyeah]

Derby the Seal problem is the major reason why our fishery is in such the terrible state. For many years the SFI has been the voice of the fishing community. On an issue of such monumental importance
it only seems reasonable to assume that the PBPS would have the backing of the SFI? I think that Forum members have a right to know why the SFI is not supporting the efforts of the PBPS.? Please explain to the members the reasons why this has happened?

Do you have BCWF endorsement?

 

[oldtimer]

Derby I find it really hard to believe and to understand why you don't understand why the SFI should support the PBPS in what is unquestionably the greatest and most important issue of our time? My guess is that you do not know the answers to this question? I am just looking for some of the reasons why the SFI seem to be in bed with the tree huggers and the environmentalists on this issue? Where do you and Wildmanyeah stand on this issue?

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Do you have SVIAC endorsement?

This is going in circles and not getting us anywhere. One person thinks sfi didn’t do enough. Might be right. Others disagree, could also be right. Guess what? None of that really matters now as we need to get our fishery back as much as possible and look forward. Chance for everyone of us AND groups like SFI to really step up...cause we need them and everyone else to now.

 

[SpringVelocity]

This is going in circles and not getting us anywhere. One person thinks sfi didn’t do enough. Might be right. Others disagree, could also be right. Guess what? None of that really matters now as we need to get our fishery back as much as possible and look forward. Chance for everyone of us AND groups like SFI to really step up...cause we need them and everyone else to now.

Yep fighting amongst ourselves does no one any good. Everyone at some point believes some level of seal predation and it's effect on salmon populations. No one disputes that. Where we all get lost is how much do we take out of the system. Some want more than what is possible, and what DFO will agree too. I get it but there has to be some sort of middle ground. So far I haven't seen that it seems like all or nothing.

Mark my words if we do it wrong it will come back to haunt us, and the environmentalists/public will really come after all of us. Instead of fighting oldtimer, and getting defensive maybe bury the hatchet/work on solutions, so your group can work with others.

Just my thoughts....

 

[Derby]

Derby I find it really hard to believe and to understand why you don't understand why the SFI should support the PBPS in what is unquestionably the greatest and most important issue of our time? My guess is that you do not know the answers to this question? I am just looking for some of the reasons why the SFI seem to be in bed with the tree huggers and the environmentalists on this issue? Where do you and Wildmanyeah stand on this issue?[/QU


a single minded responds from a single mind person ... the issues are so much more then just seals.... I would say one is not opposed to what PBPS is doing just we have a different way of doing business ... I see as usual u start to fire out the insults... and I'm still waiting for my answer" Why is it so important we support you"

 

[oldtimer]

I am not asking you to support me I am asking you to support PBPS because if our fishery is ever going to recover from this disaster it is going to take a successful seal harvest on the part of the PBPS to make that happen and it will be years before we even start to see some positive results. If the PBPS are not allowed to proceed and complete their seal harvest than it is game over as far as our fishery is concerned. This isn't rocket science.

 

[Derby]

Why PBPS can not do it alone.?? . you need SFI to hold your hand? Who says SFI isn't doing it own thing regarding problematic seals & seal lions.. as i just said " we have the some of the same goals just a different way of attaining them".. if that is not good enough for u well I'm sorry ...

 

[oldtimer]

We are all trying to solve the same problem here. The DFO are like dealing with a Mafia crime family. The top brass are so well insulated from the public and the decision makers are impossible to reach. I wish all those involved in this important quest the best of luck.

 

[Derby]

I would agree with you.. with the different approaches and pressure from all the groups ..i believe we will reach the goals that are required....

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Why PBPS can not do it alone.?? . you need SFI to hold your hand? Who says SFI isn't doing it own thing regarding problematic seals & seal lions.. as i just said " we have the some of the same goals just a different way of attaining them".. if that is not good enough for u well I'm sorry ...

Ah. Deryk. Agreed with you a ton till the why can’t they do it alone comment. Cause that right there is why we as public fishermen get nothing done...individual groups with individual agendas and no huge backing by everyone. Consolidation is KEY! Including PBPS as has FN backing so imo even more important to back. COMBINE these resources and we get somewhere. Remain split and we are ****ed

 

[onefish]

The fishery has just been handed to the natives not the damn seals and you are never getting it back. As the natives get more organized re catching and marketing the fish they will come after a larger portion and you will lose more time on the water. They hold the power, give us what we want or we are going to take what we want, when we want, how we want.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Derby for the members of the Forum, could you please explain the rational behind why the SFI has refused to endorse and support the PBPS and their mission?

hmm....

 

[oldtimer]

The DFO and other so called concerned groups are so far behind the curve on this issue that it borders on pathetic if not laughable. The FN are only trying to protect their interests and what is so wrong with that? The DFO has really let us all down.

 

[Foxsea]

I am not buying this at all. First of all most on here don't need a lecture on the difference between fish eating and mammal eating Orca.

No lecture was intended, merely an observation of a reaction to culling pinnipeds.

Secondly the Vancouver Aquarium and Ocean Wise are not without bias in that they serve as a rehab service for Pinnipeds. In effect fixing up seals that would otherwise have died. This is an excellent tool for them for advertising and fund raising... Further those seals that fish certain lighted man made structures up rivers at night for example, is not natural or historical and is new learned behavior that is devastating to salmon and is caused by humans modification of the environment.

We all have biases and some groups are well-funded, cohesive and have a powerful narrative that we must be aware of. Certain populations of seals have proven to be "problems", as you mention. Reference the article below.[/QUOTE]

Researchers have found that harbour seals are eating mature chinook — a preferred food source for orcas — but also juvenile salmon, occasionally before they reach saltwater. “They were seen lying in the Puntledge River gobbling down coho smolts by the thousands as they came down the river,” said lead author Ben Nelson, a PhD candidate at UBC’s Institute for the Oceans and Fisheries. “We have anecdotal reports of similar things happening elsewhere in B.C.” Nelson still remains uncertain that a seal cull would have a significant impact on chinook survival. “At best it would be an experiment to see what happens,” he said. A one-time seal cull was authorized on the Puntledge 10 years ago, where seals were gorging on smolts by the thousands, said Brian Riddell, CEO of the Pacific Salmon Foundation. “That was very successful for a period of time, but you have to continue to do this or they just come back,” he said. “If you are going to control the population through culls, it needs to be an ongoing program and it has to be controlled so it doesn’t affect the viability of the seal populations.” “If you are going to help the orcas, you have to look at ALL the causes (of decline), and one of those is going to be seals; another will be fishing,” said Riddell. “To work, a cull needs to be well-organized and it won’t be popular.”

 

[cohochinook]

I am not buying this at all. First of all most on here don't need a lecture on the difference between fish eating and mammal eating Orca.

Secondly the Vancouver Aquarium and Ocean Wise are not without bias in that they serve as a rehab service for Pinnipeds. In effect fixing up seals that would otherwise have died. This is an excellent tool for them for advertising and fund raising. If they accept that there is an actual overpopulation of seals and some seal lion species then they would have to accept that what they are doing is not only unnecessary but counter productive, perhaps even environmentally damaging in the big picture. Then those pictures of a cute little rehabbed seals would not be as useful for fundraising campaigns. A valid argument could be made for the closure of the Ocean Wise Pinniped rehab. facility. Why are they interfering by increasing already over populated species. Indeed asking why DFO allows this to continue under the current circumstances is a question worth asking.

Some Pinniped populations are at historical highs. I don't think there is any doubt of that. Anecdotally where I spend a lot of time on the water, just in the past 3 years the observable numbers have exploded. Further those seals that fish certain lighted man made structures up rivers at night for example, is not natural or historical and is new learned behavior that is devastating to salmon and is caused by humans modification of the environment.

Finally this is a limited extremely small harvest of seals by First Nations, who for thousands of year were a natural predator and population control mechanism for Pinnipeds on this coast. It seems to me that restoring this population control mechanism is just restoring nature in a small way to its historical natural state.

The Vancouver Aquarium for years released injured rehabilitated seals at Porteau Cove. This despite the fact that the DFO Hatchery staff from Tenderfoot were having huge problem with seals attacking their chinook net pens eating smolts and taking brood stock when they were capturing adults. Contacted the Aquarium about issue. They said they would stop the releases at Porteau. Stopped for 1 year and then next year 75 seals were released at Porteau to much media fanfare!