survival

[Spring Drifter]

I've had some pretty scary events while fishing off Port Renfrew over the past 25 years and have wondered how other sports fishermen
prepare for a possible capsizing. My boat is seaworthy, and is well equipped with safety gear but they aren't much good if the boat flips and i'm into the water in a flash.
I wear a survival suit, carry a waterproof radio, a knife and a flashlight plus have a basic understanding on what to do once in the water but that's not enough. There is just so much that can be stuffed into a suit.
Ideas?

Spring Drifter

 

[gpspowell]

I haven't a lot of time in saltwater as yet, having spent most of my boating time on Lake Powell, Utah, and hope never to experience capsizing in the ocean or Lake Powell. But along with the items you mention and a ditch bag Velcro-ed to the underside of the hard top, My boat is equiped with an ACR, Category I, EPIRB. Regisered, of course.

 

[hstat]

I'm looking at adding at least a light weight life raft this year. What do I need to look for in the EPRIB department?

 

[Spring Drifter]

No EPIRP. Unless it can be worn, it's of limited value. The water where I fish is very cold and the ability to use your hands is lost in minutes. Divers gloves are helpful and a diver's cap would prevent heat loss but it would look pretty silly wearing them on a hot summer day but if one is serious....
Spring Drifter

quote:Originally posted by gpspowell

I haven't a lot of time in saltwater as yet, having spent most of my boating time on Lake Powell, Utah, and hope never to experience capsizing in the ocean or Lake Powell. But along with the items you mention and a ditch bag Velcro-ed to the underside of the hard top, My boat is equiped with an ACR, Category I, EPIRB. Regisered, of course.

 

[gpspowell]

Look for GPS position acquisition time, reliable deployment mechanics, and mounting ease. Some of the older McMurdo units had acquisition problems. If you're going to wear it go with a PLB with GPS, instead. You can tether a CategoryI directly to your life raft (if the raft is self-deploying). Worse case scenario a Category I EPIRB mounted on your boat self-deploys on capsizing, you can't find it or are injured and can't hook its tether to yourself before your hands go numb, and the Coast Guard has the position of the EPIRB to circle looking for you. In the Straits of Juan de Fuca that USCG helicopter is probably going to be overhead in less than 1/2 hour. How far will you have drifted away from the EPIRB in that time? Also I've been led to believe that the Coast Guard, having received a validated EPIRB location, will normally broadcast a "Securite" to all boaters in the area for assistrance. Spring Drifter, I'm interested to hear why you believe EPIRB to be of limited value.

 

[Fishinnut]

Some of the Epirbs are not going to be any good. These are the older ones. I think category A & B. You want the I & II. Get the rapid deployment that fires und gives signal in a few minutes. Some you even have to hook a GPS up to it. I would not recomend that one.

One thing I did not see mentioned is I carry an emergency float box with plenty of flares. I buy the big ones that are about $50.00 each and go about 1/4 of a mile high. These have the parachutes. Also there is an orange big flag and the yellow dye markers in there. Can you use any of these after a couple of minutes. NOt sure and hope I never have to find out.

People do not realize how cold the water is year round in the Pacific. I used to tell people in the dead of summer (after they remarked about jumping into the water) to put their forearm into one of my fishwells and hold it, after I pumped fresh seawater into it. They were shocked as they could not do it and it makes your arm hurt.

The new personal 406s still have to have the antenna pulled, and two buttons pushed to activate it. This seems doable if you were concious. I guess the first year they brought these out they saved 400 lives in Alaska.

 

[Spring Drifter]

I think my boat would sink pretty quickly for it's old and there isn't much floatation in it. Would a self-activating EPIRB be reliable enough to send a signal upon capsizing? I would prefer to be wearing an EBIRP but don't think there is one small enough on the market yet.
Capsizing can happen so quickly. I lost a friend because of unexpected rough water. Ideally, survival gear should be stowed on or in the survival suit.
My concern is that not enough is being done to make survival gear more user friendly. When you're in cold water some very basic needs must be addressed immediately: communications, gloves to keep the hands warm, a diver's foam cap to prevent heat loss, adequate bouancy; other signaling devices such as flares (very limited help), a smoke bomb (probably two or three would be more realistic). All very practical devices but impractical to be carried on one's person.

Sprin Drifter

 

[casper5280]

Spring Drifter I to wear a survival suit and have a floating box with flares and handheld vhf,survival kit,dye cans,knife etc.I would like to know what you mean by "a basic understanding on what to do once in the water".I feel that after the first 10-20 minutes in the water that I would be screwed as I don't think I could help someone help myself.By this I mean that if someone did find me I don't think I could help them pull me out of the water,I would be just dead weight. As Fishinnut has said I don't think people realize how cold that water is after a few minutes.
I would also like to know peoples thoughts on how long a average person could last in the water.
I truly hope all this is just food for thought and no one has a need to use this information
I sometimes think that I'm a little anal about all the safty items I puton the boat.Then I see others out there no radios and no brains going out in bad weather and think that that is the guy that I may need to save.

 

[gpspowell]

Spring Drifter,
IF; You buy a Category I (Self Deploying), with INTERNAL GPS, and you mount it outside the pilothouse, the answer is yes. The self-deployment works by the use of a hydrostatic release and a spring ejector. If not outside the pilothouse it could be trapped under the boat after being released (See photos). The one photo also shows my ditch bag in its Velco-ed position. The ditch bag has flare gun, GPS, VHF, flash light, strobe, etc. but won't be much good if there isn't time to grab it. Thus the EPIRB.[/www.gpspowell.info/EPIRB1.gif][url][/www.gpspowell.info/EPIRB2.gif]

 

[fishin_magician]

quote:Originally posted by Spring Drifter

No EPIRP. Unless it can be worn, it's of limited value. The water where I fish is very cold and the ability to use your hands is lost in minutes. Divers gloves are helpful and a diver's cap would prevent heat loss but it would look pretty silly wearing them on a hot summer day but if one is serious....
Spring Drifter

quote:Originally posted by gpspowell

I haven't a lot of time in saltwater as yet, having spent most of my boating time on Lake Powell, Utah, and hope never to experience capsizing in the ocean or Lake Powell. But along with the items you mention and a ditch bag Velcro-ed to the underside of the hard top, My boat is equiped with an ACR, Category I, EPIRB. Regisered, of course.

NO EPIRB? WRONG WRONG WRONG...If you've got a boat that's big enough to get you into trouble and you're on the west coast, you most definitely should invest in one especially if you're running offshore. It's a STANDARD piece of equipment off the east coast of the States...and HIGHLY useful for locating your position....and it's a great piece of equipment to have. If no one is there to see your flares..it doesn't matter. The moment you trigger the EPIRB, within seconds the satellites have locked your position and help is in the process of getting to you. If your engine dies, or you have a big mechanical failure...and EPIRB will help you immensely.

However, one thing I'm really shocked at is...how no one has recommended NOT getting yourself into these troublesome situations?!

I've seen people run 30 miles offshore on the westcoast in the fog with with a single engine craft, just a basic GPS and the "regulation" equipment...now THAT is nuts...and I don't care how great the fishing was at the edge of that continental shelf.... Assuming someone else is there to tow you in, you have no defense other than a radio you may be able to call the Coast Guard on...or another boat in the area as long as you have a position and they can locate you..... or a cell phone that works...

I don't know about you...but when I plan to get into potentially very risky situations with my boat, I'll have an EPIRB on my 30 foot Grady White with 550 horses in addition to GPS Charting, Radar, high powered radios, liferaft, survival gear et al. You never can tell and you never know.

 

[1stLite]

quote:Originally posted by Spring Drifter

I've had some pretty scary events while fishing off Port Renfrew over the past 25 years and have wondered how other sports fishermen
prepare for a possible capsizing. My boat is seaworthy, and is well equipped with safety gear but they aren't much good if the boat flips and i'm into the water in a flash.
I wear a survival suit, carry a waterproof radio, a knife and a flashlight plus have a basic understanding on what to do once in the water but that's not enough. There is just so much that can be stuffed into a suit.
Ideas?

Spring Drifter

Fill us in on some of those scary events out of renfrew I have only fished out there for about five years now and have been lucky to not have seen any yet.

 

[Tailspin]

Next time your at PRM ask Rex to see the picture of the guy in the 28 foot Skagit attempting to get out of the river in very big surf!
He made it out, almost flipped her over end over end. He then spent a night being pounded in the bay as it was too rough to get to the States.

 

[Last Chance]

That pic is right at the counter.

 

[1stLite]

Yea I have seen that picture. On a day like that I think I would do a quick U turn go back to the campsite light a fire and crack a beer

 

[Morty]

I've seen many a SCETCHY exit from the river mouth in PR while surfing.The only actual capsizing i've seen was at Jordan River about 4 or 5 years ago.These two old guys camping there went out in a 14 aluminum.The swell was pretty big, but they were able to time the waves and make it out.During the 2 hours they were out , the swell built up another 5 feet.They couldn't make it in fast enough during a break in the waves and got SMASHED by about a 15 foot wave.
The boat flipped end over end and these guys were getting worked right in the impact zone, wave after wave for about 5 minutes.Lucky for them they were wearing life jackets and there were lots of surfers out who ended up paddling the now very hypothermic pair back to shore.One guy was in pretty bad shape and a helicopter had to land right in the parking lot and fly them to the hospital.Their boat and gear was strewn along the beach for about a mile getting mangled in the shorebreak.Pretty crazy thing to watch.

 

[Fishinnut]

Go to the West Marine site and read about Epirbs. Explained very well. The best is the 406 Category I&II with GPS. It hails a satellite in 4 minutes. The others are 40 minutes and longer. I cannot imagine bining in the water 40 minutes before a satellite locks on to it. You could be dead by then.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/epirbs.htm

Some friends of mine saved some people here in the Puget Sound. They were new boaters. They just bought a 20' Trophy like mine that didn't have the access hatch cover on it while they were out. Its in the outboard motor well. They were fishing my favorite fishing hole. The water had about 2-3' chop. This would have water going into the bilge with every wave, when you would stop trolling and have the wind to your back. I would guess there that 5 gallons would go in with every wave.

Their boat flipped and someone from their house on shore saw it and called it in. The Coast Guard was no where around as they were responding to a training exercise that went wrong and someone drown in downtown Seattle. This is just wrong when the Coast Guard cannot cover or did not cover more than one area at a time. My friends took 40 minutes to get there. The boat was upside down and they were trying to stand on the motor and hold on. They were in the water one hour and 20 minutes. They did not have the strength to even help themselves into the boat. They were dead weight. Luckily they saved both of them and they did not have life jackets on.

 

[Merrittboy]

This talk is certainly scaring me. I am going up to Port Renfrew this year as a newbie. I am trying my best to get prepared! Would it be best if I just sat in my boat at the dock and pretended! I definatley am going to be very careful! Will be staying fairly close to home until I know what I am doing! Good to read all these posts, makes one respect the water for what it can be!

 

[Fishinnut]

The worst or closest I have ever come to sinking was in the mouth of the Strait of Juan de Fuca. We were heading out in May and we got into really short and tall waves. They got bigger and bigger. We were in my buddy's 22' Seasport enclosed cabin. The waves were to close together to turn around. We would have rolled for sure. We were commited. It was about two to three miles of stacked waves. The last wave we seemed to climb forever. When we got to the top of it there was another one attached where we climbed even more. There were four of us aboard and not a word was being said, but am sure everyone was praying. We fell off of the back of that wave. I swear it was 40' tall. I thought to myself, the boat cannot take many more of these. When I got up off of the floor, we were out of them and back to tight 7-8' windchop. This is the worst water I have seen or been in. Every year we say we are going to bag the Halibut opener next year, here in Washington, but go anyway. I am not trying to scare anyone, but let them know there are real dangers out there. My guess is it was an extreme outgoing tide when we went out as any bar is bad during this time. PS a boat did go down that year.

 

[Spring Drifter]

Most people at PR are friendly (the experience of the West Coast transforms even the gruppiest)and with give you some very good advice.
Ask if you can follow along and keep in touch by radio. Talking to others will make you a better fisherman. Don't be discouraged if you don't catch fish. Even the most seasoned have gone for days without a fish.
Spring Drifter

quote:Originally posted by Merrittboy

This talk is certainly scaring me. I am going up to Port Renfrew this year as a newbie. I am trying my best to get prepared! Would it be best if I just sat in my boat at the dock and pretended! I definatley am going to be very careful! Will be staying fairly close to home until I know what I am doing! Good to read all these posts, makes one respect the water for what it can be!

 

[Spring Drifter]

I once had to send a flare for an emergency situation off Telegraph Cove. Both my main engine and kicker along with my VHF radio packed in at the same time. A tug pulling a barge was bearing down on me. I sent a total of four flares into the air and there must have been twenty boats trolling about 400 yards from me . It was a clear day. Nobody responded until I sent the last flare across the nearest boat's bow. He only responded because because he was finished fishing and was on his way back.
I think if I'd set a smoke signal there would have been a different response.
Spring Drifter

quote:Originally posted by Fishinnut

Some of the Epirbs are not going to be any good. These are the older ones. I think category A & B. You want the I & II. Get the rapid deployment that fires und gives signal in a few minutes. Some you even have to hook a GPS up to it. I would not recomend that one.

One thing I did not see mentioned is I carry an emergency float box with plenty of flares. I buy the big ones that are about $50.00 each and go about 1/4 of a mile high. These have the parachutes. Also there is an orange big flag and the yellow dye markers in there. Can you use any of these after a couple of minutes. NOt sure and hope I never have to find out.

People do not realize how cold the water is year round in the Pacific. I used to tell people in the dead of summer (after they remarked about jumping into the water) to put their forearm into one of my fishwells and hold it, after I pumped fresh seawater into it. They were shocked as they could not do it and it makes your arm hurt.

The new personal 406s still have to have the antenna pulled, and two buttons pushed to activate it. This seems doable if you were concious. I guess the first year they brought these out they saved 400 lives in Alaska.