Strategy for the Northern and Southern Resident Killer Whales

[wolf]

Well I can tell FIRST hand as I was out almost everyday at sooke I only saw them 3 times and i watched them only 1 time going into muir creek area most times it was off shore with a fleet of whale watchers on their butt, im telling you in the 35 plus years of me fishing if a killer whales comes by our boats we do not effect them, ive never heard of them hitting a down rigger line EVER they keep on going and and salmon in the way has been ate . ive had a mom and calf take a fish right of my line before...was the coolest thing ive ever seen.
You can throw up any graph its not going to take place of first hand seen knowledge , im so sick and tired of us few fishermen as being the scapegoat for something that is a WAY bigger picture here , unfortunately the whales are sick and its not from a lack of food its from toxins in there body, and you can thanks the amount of sewer Canada and US have dumped into our oceans. You can filter out all the "bad" things in that water. I hate to say it but the whales are doomed sad but true facts

 

[ericl]

Well I can tell FIRST hand as I was out almost everyday at sooke I only saw them 3 times

Thanks for the answer.

You can throw up any graph its not going to take place of first hand seen knowledge

Personally I respect both. As has been evident on this thread, what is put out as first hand knowledge is all too often just fake news.

unfortunately the whales are sick and its not from a lack of food its from toxins in there body

No doubt the toxins are at play, but to say it's all toxins and zero from lack of food & you begin to loose credibility

You are a piece of work, i do live in the area (ocean front), fish in the area, used to guide and have countless friends who still do so this is first hand observations not some American spewing bs from behind his computer who probably didn't fish a day in these waters

I did not fish a day in those waters. From what wolf said (only saw them 3 times) it looks like you didn't either. I also made no claims about any observations.

I think almost all of us now get how much time the Orca's spent in Sooke.

 

[scott craven]

Although these animals can move great distances they seem to be habituated in a relatively small area.
SRKW's favorite seems to be the south end of San Juan island.
As long as there is food present,it seems to be their preferred place.
We saw them 3 times in Oak bay, twice off shore and once inshore.
The inshore sighting was something to watch with approx 30 whale boats
clustered around them.
I can't believe this is allowed when fishing is closed in so many area's to allow the whales
more space.

 

[california]

Well I can tell FIRST hand as I was out almost everyday at sooke I only saw them 3 times and i watched them only 1 time going into muir creek area most times it was off shore

No not at all, if the noise from the vessels and the sonar are so detrimental to the whales fishing why the hell are they jammed right in there with the boats fishing Sooke,

I get confused which local 'expert' to believe. Are they almost never in Sooke or jammed right in with the boats?

The inshore sighting was something to watch with approx 30 whale boats clustered around them. I can't believe this is allowed when fishing is closed in so many area's to allow the whales more space.

Clearly that is an issue, the scientific consensus recommended reduction in acoustic and physical interference as the highest impact action for the whales, yet they only exclude sport fishing vessels, and implemented a 200m rule for whale watch boats which is rarely adhered to.

 

[wildmanyeah]

SRKW's favorite seems to be the south end of San Juan island.

This statement is backed up by the whale sightings report. That is indeed where they seem to see to spend most of the summer months. In July they seem to make some tripes to Sooke and in late August and September they seem to make a few trips to the Fraser mouth.

Scott and wolf your observations seem to be bang on.

So why have closures in areas and months where the whales just are not.

Their is absolutely no reason for total finfish closures or havwing sore fishing closed.

In the goal of the fin fish closure is not to have Noise from boats around then That should be a transport Canada regulation and apply to all not just rec fish boats.

We’re were F by social media and ENGO’s.

I am glad a joined SFI and I’m glad to see they are lobbying on our behalf.

Because some of this **** just does not make sence.

 

[wildmanyeah]

From Facebook where I get all my news!!



Competing tradeoffs between increasing marine mammal predation and fisheries harvest of Chinook salmon

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14984-8

A study released last year on the impacts of marine mammal predation and fisheries harvest of Chinook salmon.

Study Area: California to Alaska

Objective:
Examine how marine mammal predation on CN has changed over time and compare this to changes in salmon production and fishing mortality from commercial and recreational fisheries.

Key Findings:
-From 1975-2015 biomass of Chinook eaten by seals and killer whales increased from 6,100 to 15,200 metric tonnes (mt). (5 to 31.5 million individual salmon)
-Changes in predation and harvest were not evenly distributed across Chinook salmon from different areas.
-Killer whales consume largest biomass
- Harbor seals consume the largest number (27.4 million)
- From 1975-2015 decrease in adult Chinook harvest (commercial, rec, tribal) from 16,400 mt to 9,600 mt.
-Chinook salmon removals (harvest and predation) actually increased between 1975-2015.
-Predation has increased on WestCoast Vancouver Island and coastal BC Chinook, but predation still remains below the harvest.
-Salish Sea Chinook Predation mortality greatly exceeds harvest mortality.
-Increased consumption by marine mammals could be masking success of salmon recovery efforts.
-Long term reductions in salmon available for humans may not = lower abundance of salmon, but instead a reallocation from humans to marine mammals.

Read the full study here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14984-8

 

[uclueletcharters]

Regardless on those other details the population hasn't been a 100 for the last 50 years. The media needs to relay that when covering a story so people get a clear picture.

 

[california]

This

From Facebook where I get all my news!!
Competing tradeoffs between increasing marine mammal predation and fisheries harvest of Chinook salmon
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14984-8

There is already a thread for this study as its not new.
https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?threads/salish-sea-seals-eat-86-of-smolts.67939/

 

[wolf]

Are they almost never in Sooke or jammed right in with the boats?

I never saw them once in really tight to shore they were always out a bit like a mile or so They may have passed thru the night but the times im out are from 6 am to about 2 ish ... and Im in the network of know if they pass thru after ive left I know you may find this hard to believe they always dont come to sooke they can pass down the US side too ya know ...The ones I did see in REALLY tight were transients.
Again to talk about toxins if your sick you dont want to eat maybe look up how full of toxins grandma was and the special permits they need to dispose of body....

 

[ziggy]

How does that make any sense? The ENGOs have spent considerable effort on protests, camps and funded a lawsuit to try and stop the pipeline. If it gets built they have no hope of stopping the tanker traffic. If this chemist guy from Langley is to be believed there may be no net change in tanker traffic through whale habitat, which if true makes it that much more important for the ENGOs to stop it now if the tanker traffic issue really is a red herring. https://achemistinlangley.net/2018/...ntalist-supports-the-trans-mountain-pipeline/


The people who took the whales were not experts, they were business people who saw a way to make money like Bob Wright. The Vancouver Aquarium didn't have whale scientists on staff nor did DFO. There was no idea of how many existed, no realization there were separate resident populations, and no idea about Biggs whales. At the time fisherman, sport and commercial were as culpable as anyone, fully supporting the removals, as Orcas were considered salmon eating vermin. Commercial guys regularly shot at them, a few still have bullet scars. If you read any of the scientific literature these issues are all brought up. Over and over the big 3 issues are Toxin buildups, Salmon availability, Acoustic disturbance. Toxin buildup is a longer term problem, so the shorter term issues that can be affected are salmon availability and acoustic disturbance. The removals are in the past, nothing can be done to remedy them so get less attention. Another population of whales, the Biggs, were believed to be at or below 100 individuals during the time their food source was the target of extermination efforts, and recovered to 300 once the food source (seals) recovered, so there is some evidence that a population can rebound despite genetic compression. Biggs have even greater toxin concentrations than SRKW due to eating prey higher in the food chain. Is that recovery possible for the SRKW ? No one knows, it may be too late for them, but just maintaining the status quo it appears will result in their continued decline, so some actions need to be taken, and yes some of those actions will affect sport fisherman.

You’re right that they weren't experts then,and the Jury is still out now on the latest batch.Lets remember though, much like now, they did portray themselves as experts, at the time, hindsight is 20/20. As for the three big ones, who can say if inbreeding can’t be even bigger than any one of those three? Acoustic data research is in its infancy and as such is so far speculation as to what degree it impacts the whales. Certainly it’s prudent to question if noise is a factor, what is the major contributing source. Broadband? Discrete frequencies? From what sound sources?I personally doubt it’s from trolling motors or fishfinders on recreational vessels, but then again it must be because they are the only ones not allowed in the whale sanctuaries right.
Toxins may or may not be the major problem ,as you say, Biggs have even higher levels, yet are increasing in numbers. Food also seems like a plausible cause , yet we know the Northern Residents are doing much better, so why is that?

You seem to want to attack anonymous recreational fishermen who you know nothing about, but are clearly trying your best to lump in some vile category that exists in your mind and fits the scenario you wish to believe. These are the people who volunteer at hatcheries, clean up rivers and streams and contribute funds to salmon preservation.Conversely you seem to be trying to defend another group who captured roughly 30% of the now endangered whales and killed others in the process and the enviros who contribute nothing,except for a tax receipt to the guilt ridden who support their cause without doing any form of research. Frankly I can’t figure you out, perhaps you just feel the need to argue. Fair enough, but not with me!The ignore button is my friend!

 

[ILHG]

I would like to know if @california has ever posted anything on fishing? It would seem the 3 stooges never actually have anything to say about fishing.. More trolls then fisherman...

 

[The Jackel]

ILHG, Ziggy, you guys get it. Well as for Cali give him some slack i think he needs a group hug, just a troll without a life. Now i am going to get a Wolf attack here ( wolf no need to use capitals) , i call ******** on 3 days in the summer. Many of my friends who guide in Sooke and you know them all, say the total opposite of what you posted, for a couple of weeks they were passing through every other day, then gone for a bit to the east then back again, "quote, the most sightings of killer whales we have ever seen". Now i know this doesn't fair well for Sooke as you guys have taken it up the butt big time, and it is just wrong. My original point to make was that this huge area in front of my house closed to all fishing, and i pointed out that i have seen the least numbers of killers whales in 21 years, but Cali and Eric had another agenda, so this is not a slight on Sooke. We can all **** in each others cornflakes and everyone is mad, depressed and out right pissed off with the exception of our little American friends Eric and Cali, they are to busy doing their snoopy dance with the like of Whoregan, Weaver and all the green eco groups. We are in for a tough ride, so make sure you all write your letters and call your elected officials. On a side note for example in regards to science to point out theories ie noise etc. One day when fishing we come into a big ball of bait, so for ***** and giggles and to see if the blackbox really does work we jack the thing right up, fricking bait scattered big time, jumping out of the water, science experiment a success. Next we hook a spring get it to the boat same thing, son of a ***** took off like a bat out of hell... answer again black box works. As for all the acoustic bs and noise bs i can't find any research that actually proves the point, it is all theory. There must be some real nice kool aid out there. 3 2 1 and....

 

[wolf]

No attack Jackel IF you read what I said they were way out I had seen a lot of transients . alot of people do not know how to tell the difference. I asked the whale watching guy when I saw whales what they were just to reconfirm.
I also wrote the times I personally saw our J,K,L pod and it wasnt much to say the least I also have noticed less and less activity in the last 5 years . For instance last year the residents were gone for almost a month no where to be found and that was confirmed by the local whale watchers in one of the meetings... call all the ******** you want im on the water and see what I see I base things on Facts and nothing else.

im done
Wolf

 

[GLG]

You’re right that they weren't experts then,and the Jury is still out now on the latest batch.Lets remember though, much like now, they did portray themselves as experts, at the time, hindsight is 20/20. As for the three big ones, who can say if inbreeding can’t be even bigger than any one of those three? Acoustic data research is in its infancy and as such is so far speculation as to what degree it impacts the whales. Certainly it’s prudent to question if noise is a factor, what is the major contributing source. Broadband? Discrete frequencies? From what sound sources?I personally doubt it’s from trolling motors or fishfinders on recreational vessels, but then again it must be because they are the only ones not allowed in the whale sanctuaries right.
Toxins may or may not be the major problem ,as you say, Biggs have even higher levels, yet are increasing in numbers. Food also seems like a plausible cause , yet we know the Northern Residents are doing much better, so why is that?

You seem to want to attack anonymous recreational fishermen who you know nothing about, but are clearly trying your best to lump in some vile category that exists in your mind and fits the scenario you wish to believe. These are the people who volunteer at hatcheries, clean up rivers and streams and contribute funds to salmon preservation.Conversely you seem to be trying to defend another group who captured roughly 30% of the now endangered whales and killed others in the process and the enviros who contribute nothing,except for a tax receipt to the guilt ridden who support their cause without doing any form of research. Frankly I can’t figure you out, perhaps you just feel the need to argue. Fair enough, but not with me!The ignore button is my friend!

Inbreeding is a concern but it may not rank up with the big three of food, noise and contamination.
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/760f65_79bdbfa8b01f4ee1b0fd17df75d7a095.pdf

 

[GLG]

I would like to know if @california has ever posted anything on fishing? It would seem the 3 stooges never actually have anything to say about fishing.. More trolls then fisherman...

Your an asshat.

 

[ziggy]

Inbreeding is a concern but it may not rank up with the big three of food, noise and contamination.
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/760f65_79bdbfa8b01f4ee1b0fd17df75d7a095.pdf

Thanks ,had a quick read, I found this quote below interesting in it.I guess it could be interpreted in several ways but I don’t see a big three being validated, other than as the current recovery focus? It appears to me the suggestion in the paper you quoted is that the impact of inbreeding is at best unknown.

“Recovery efforts are focused on increasing prey and reducing impacts from environmental disturbance, but the population’s small size and insularity suggest that inbreeding depression could also be important”

 

[capt hook]

We live in a world now , where anyone with a half butt degree can call them self a expert witness , go do a observation and notes study , write a paper and then get media to publish...the world of fake news.
Seals are good because they eat and poop and bingo , flowers grow.
4 stroke engines give Orcas a headache , and large areas MUST be closed as hard to medicate them.
Sea lion feces is good for the sponge reefs.
plus if you know how, you can get a grant for your study and easy publishing at 99% of the west coast news outlets that are eastern owned.

 

[uclueletcharters]

Do these groups not realize that salmon is a large part of most families diets that live in these coastal communities that they are proposing or have closed down. Do we not have the right to harvest fish to eat along our local shores, it's a big part of the way of life on the west coast. Or do they expect us to have to go to the pharmacy to pick up a bottle of fish oil to keep healthy.

Most local non profit hatcheries are funded by donations and grants, most donations come from sport fishermen giving back to these hatcheries.

 

[uclueletcharters]

Great Chart find Wildman that's what needs to be out there circulating not this other garbage that works up folks that have no idea and think of Free Willy. There's the facts, awesome. There's a meeting with DFO in Ukee about proposed closures that I will be attending and armed with charts like these. And some good questions. If anyone has some good questions they would like an answer to I'm happy to ask and report back. Pass them along, short questions please

 

[littlechucky]

Interesting read on the struggles of the resident orcas which live off the UK. This population is now down below 10 and doesn’t have a recorded birth since they have been observed.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.the...er-whale-died-extreme-levels-toxic-pollutants