Seal Hunt

fishin_magician

Well-Known Member
Here's a copy of the article pulled out of the Vancouver Sun.

I say... OPEN SEASON on the ANTI-SEAL HUNT Protesters, and OPEN SEASON on harbour seals!!!
Hearn accuses group of despicable behaviour for planning anti-seal rally using kids as 'props'

Peter O'Neil
Vancouver Sun; with files from CanWest News Service


Monday, March 05, 2007



CREDIT: Canadian Press Files
Fisheries Minister Loyola Hearn has lashed out at tactics proposed for a protest.

OTTAWA -- Fisheries Minister Loyola Hearn is accusing a Vancouver group of despicable, immoral and exploitive behaviour for planning an anti-seal hunt protest for later this month using children as "props" to attract media attention.

"Please get the day off work/school," urges the notice from a group called Liberation B.C., which included in its e-mail notice the website link for the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS).

Protesters, urged to wear black, are asked to meet at the Vancouver Art Gallery on March 15. They are to walk single-file, carrying black coffins, to the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans headquarters on Burrard Street. "We need children dressed in black to lay flowers on the coffins in front of the DFO.

"It will draw a lot of media attention if we can get the children," urges the notice, which was posted on the Discover Vancouver website.

Hearn's office sent out an e-mail to the media Friday with the subject line: "HSUS Resort to Using Children as Props to Attract Media Interest."

Hearn, whose government is in a tough battle in the U.S. and Europe against campaigns to boycott seal product imports, said the tactics go too far.

"To me it's utterly despicable and shows they have absolutely no morals when they stoop that low," he told The Vancouver Sun.

"It's sick. Exploiting children and involving innocent children in something like this is completely and utterly shameful."

Hearn, a Newfoundland MP, said the "supposedly Canadian" protesters are against a "legitimate, sustainable, humane hunt."

Rebecca Aldworth, the Montreal-based Canadian spokeswoman for HSUS, said her organization has led the global initiative to declare March 15 an "international day of action" against the hunt. She said she can't comment on Liberation B.C.'s tactics because "this is not our event," but added that it's Hearn who should feel shame. "I would argue that Canada's seal hunt is the slaughter of baby seals."

Joanne Chang, who said she runs Liberation B.C. by herself and has an e-mail network of about 800 people, said she has never had any contact with HSUS. She put the Washington, D.C.-based lobby group's website address on her e-mail notice because "everybody knows them."

Chang, 32, an administration employee with a Vancouver company, said it's legitimate to urge children to get involved. "They see these images [of seals being harvested], they just have nightmares and they want to do something about it."

Meanwhile, in Quebec, filmmaker Raoul Jomphe said animal rights activists are outraged they were caught on tape ignoring a dying seal for more than an hour and then were featured in a documentary. He said the activists were filming a promotional segment for a fundraising campaign when the incident occurred.

Jomphe said Canadian HSUS director Aldworth called him to complain, after she discovered he had captured the incident on film. "She was really mad at me," said Jomphe. Phoques, le film (Seals, the movie) is scheduled to air later this month on the CBC's French-language all-news network, RDI, and local Atlantic Radio-Canada stations.



© The Vancouver Sun 2007
 
When you say open season on the protesters what do you have in mind Magic? I dont want to see you get into anymore trouble. If you are the man and going to have open season on harbour seals....how are you going to go about it? Can you picture a bunch of weekend anglers armed with rifles and beer shooting off the Cap? or on the Vic waterfront....planes, pilot boats, skiffs, beachcombers, gees I think your going to really put on a show. I will look forward to a upcomming article in the Van Sun haha.
 
I say sell permits at $500.00 each good for 6 Pinnipeds. All proceeds go to restoration of Salmon runs and habitat. :D
 
Sounds like a great Idea but you would have to limit the shooting to shotguns you would have way to many problems with rifles. Maybe you can convince the first nation to get back to ther roots and kill some seal. I have been told by and old timer that the blubber makes a nice chip dip.
 
quote:Originally posted by powder

When you say open season on the protesters what do you have in mind Magic? I dont want to see you get into anymore trouble. If you are the man and going to have open season on harbour seals....how are you going to go about it? Can you picture a bunch of weekend anglers armed with rifles and beer shooting off the Cap? or on the Vic waterfront....planes, pilot boats, skiffs, beachcombers, gees I think your going to really put on a show. I will look forward to a upcomming article in the Van Sun haha.

With the decline of commercial fishing comes a whole new problem--an unchecked seal population raging out of control.

We're in a sad state of affairs when it comes to salmon stocks relative to years ago Powder--and if I remember correctly from my Oceanography courses, the effect of natural predators on an already reduced biomass has an exponential effect on the depletion of the resource.

These "protesters", and you know as well as I do, love to crank up rhetoric appealing to peoples emotions---and have little scientific evidence and fact to back up their arguments. To make matters worse, these protesters now have the Vancouver Aquarium rescuing orphaned pups (pups that would otherwise die), nursing them to health and age, and then releasing them into the waters surrounding Vancouver!!

Remember the Puntledge River incidents a few years ago? 100 seals feasting on hatchery fish on their seaward and upstream migrations.

There's about 3 resident seals in the Vancouver Harbour that really need to be taken care of---and when I'm out fishing I'd much rather let that undersize go, as opposed to making it seal bait the moment it strikes my lure. Check out the few thousand seals having a free for all in the Fraser River---now that's a shame! Great to know that an angler like myself works hard all week just dreaming of getitng out on the water for fishing and fun, and end up feeding the seals. Now that's sport. Heck--we should break out the Hali Rods with the 12/0 hooks and there are days we'd probably do better for seals than salmon!

A seal hunt is not only a sustainable, economical, environmentally, and politically viable activity, but it is also a necessary "evil". Not that I'd go around eating Harbour Seals, and advocating that these flippered gluttons be put on an endangered list, but if all levels of the food chain need enhancement--then seals need cutting back too---instead of letting them follow boats for hours, dining undersize and larger fish that get on the lines.

Remember how many times we actually lost a salmon to a sea lion up North Powder? A rare occasion given the number of sea lions around that area--and a good indicator of the abundance of food. Now imagine harbour seals taking better than 50% of the "good fish" you hook on a given trip out? Yikes. That sucks.

The seal problem goes away in Vancouver when the runs of returning salmon show up, and I know the same happens elsewhere on the coast relatively speaking.

Either way seal hunt protesters don't change my opinion. Protesters won't change the answers I gave to DFO's questions about seal activities and how many fish , the size of fish, and the frequency of the seal problem in around Vancouver.

500 bucks a head for an annual licensed seal cull over 3 days would most definitely help matters on the coast...either that---or let's start enhancing Orca populations on the coast to dine on Sea Lions and Harbour Seals. I think eventually Orca populations are due to increase---after all...food won't be hard to find at this rate.
 
What amazes me is that they allowed this to print not correcting the point about "baby seals". White coats haven't been allowed to be taken for over 10 years..
 
quote:Originally posted by powder

When you say open season on the protesters what do you have in mind Magic? I dont want to see you get into anymore trouble. If you are the man and going to have open season on harbour seals....how are you going to go about it?

Spearfishing....who is going to see the goings on under the water?

FM....thanks for posting the article. As for your points about the local seal population I could not agree more.

It would be very interesting to know on average how many fish are lost to seals that would otherwise be considered part of the daily limit. Not sure if those numbers would be significant but just out of curiousity it would be interesting to know.
 
quote:Originally posted by Pippen

quote:Originally posted by powder

When you say open season on the protesters what do you have in mind Magic? I dont want to see you get into anymore trouble. If you are the man and going to have open season on harbour seals....how are you going to go about it?

Spearfishing....who is going to see the goings on under the water?

FM....thanks for posting the article. As for your points about the local seal population I could not agree more.

It would be very interesting to know on average how many fish are lost to seals that would otherwise be considered part of the daily limit. Not sure if those numbers would be significant but just out of curiousity it would be interesting to know.

Otherwise part of the daily limit? I can vouch for 50%. Last March and April I'd get out fishing quite often and there were days that better than 50% of the keeper size fish (averaging 25 to 32 inches)went to seals. There have already been days, according to local charter operators, where seals have taken 100% (a visual on 2 or more keepers). That's ridiculous! Never mind the little ones they rip off the hook too...
 
Magic I am still waiting for your killer idea how you are going to cull these seals in a heavily populated area such as Van Harbour? Its one thing to have a cull at a hatchery or estuary, but you are not thinking clearly if you think fisheries or any agency is going to be involved with citizens shooting guns in a power boat. So unless we get your big idea here you are just talking! Tough talking seals haha. Secondly, you are going to suggest the natives should take this up? Economical? You going to eat buy it to eat? You going to buy a coat? Sorry these are not the same east coast seals, diff. fur. Where is the ecconomy? I think your seals are not going away anytime soon unless you figure out a way to remove them. Let us know,I think thats why they will only be increasing in population until a realistic idea is proposed.
The sea otter popualtion on WCFC is way out of check too and something is being proposed here, and this might be economical for the first nations people. Also remote, so possible to put into motion.
 
Powder -

The sea otter population is way out of check? I don't agree with that one, but I don't have first hand knowledge. Can you provide some info on that?

As for the seals, I remember when seeing one was a rarity 25 years ago.... now, you can't get away from the bastards.
 
The shellfish industry.....sea urchins etc. has totally collasped on the west coast van. island. Winter harbour to Tofino is in huge trouble and DFO as well as First Nations are onboard with this. Some Sea Otters have now moved into the Bamfield Marine station area. Sea Otters can eat 50% of theyre body weight a day in seafood, crabs, urchins, cukes, geoducks, all shellfish. You can spot rafts of them in the Quatsino area and around nootka is. When diving these waters it soon becomes apparent what damage sea otters are doing. You can read up on it on puha site...pacific urchin harvesters assc. or just do a google search on sea otters west coast. The otters are growing by 20 % a year we are told, were reintoduced in the late sixtys, and are above historic levels. Also moving south, next stop RENFREW!
 
quote:Originally posted by powder

Magic I am still waiting for your killer idea how you are going to cull these seals in a heavily populated area such as Van Harbour? Its one thing to have a cull at a hatchery or estuary, but you are not thinking clearly if you think fisheries or any agency is going to be involved with citizens shooting guns in a power boat. So unless we get your big idea here you are just talking! Tough talking seals haha. Secondly, you are going to suggest the natives should take this up? Economical? You going to eat buy it to eat? You going to buy a coat? Sorry these are not the same east coast seals, diff. fur. Where is the ecconomy? I think your seals are not going away anytime soon unless you figure out a way to remove them. Let us know,I think thats why they will only be increasing in population until a realistic idea is proposed.
The sea otter popualtion on WCFC is way out of check too and something is being proposed here, and this might be economical for the first nations people. Also remote, so possible to put into motion.

Natives will hunt for these seals. Basically, as far as I'm concerned, kill them. DFO recognized the need and I'm sure the public recognizes the need for balance in an ecosystem, and since humans have upset this balance, we have to bring certain parts of the food chain into more sustainable numbers.

Hey Powder..do you not think seals are getting culled as it is? I've seen a few floaters over the years...and I know that there's a few guys out there shooting them anyways. Commercial Trollers and Seiners shoot them---and you're mistaken if you think that's not occurring.

Sea Otter Population out of check? Actually no..Sea Otters are not out of check--river otters maybe.

From what I understand Sea Otter populations are recovering, and there is a suggestion that some of them should be relocated to distribute the population to maximize the benefit of their recovery and promote genetic diversity over the coast since they were hunted to the brink of extinction.

The more sea otters we get as a matter of fact, the better---Sea Otters eat and thrive on Sea Urchins which serve to keep the kelp population in check by taking over the bottom--and the abundance of kelp indirectly impacts herring stocks by providing spawning habitat for herring. Overall, the stronger the urchin population, the better the availability of food for Sea Otters.

Realistic idea? Here's a realistic idea---bring back the seal cull as mandated by DFO (which was incidentally abandoned by the department after all kinds of negative and unfounded publicity by the seal hunt protesters).

You better believe that a seal cull is coming our way Powder---and it's going to happen--and DFO knows about this concern and will address it one way or another--even if it means ticking a few seal hunt protesters off.

More kelp production (in turn boosting herring spawn habitat) is exactly what the coast needs---and I'm 100% for the recovery of Sea Otters.

Licensed seal culls do occur.

As for private citizens culling seals--yes they already do and there are several ways to cull them without using guns---and a few private citizens do take care of them with guns as it is.
 
quote:Originally posted by powder

The shellfish industry.....sea urchins etc. has totally collasped on the west coast van. island. Winter harbour to Tofino is in huge trouble and DFO as well as First Nations are onboard with this. Some Sea Otters have now moved into the Bamfield Marine station area. Sea Otters can eat 50% of theyre body weight a day in seafood, crabs, urchins, cukes, geoducks, all shellfish. You can spot rafts of them in the Quatsino area and around nootka is. When diving these waters it soon becomes apparent what damage sea otters are doing. You can read up on it on puha site...pacific urchin harvesters assc. or just do a google search on sea otters west coast. The otters are growing by 20 % a year we are told, were reintoduced in the late sixtys, and are above historic levels. Also moving south, next stop RENFREW!

Pacific Urchin Harvesters Association..now there's an unbiased organization...NOT. Above Historic levels...based on what? Who did an Otter Count in 1910? 1855? 1962?

The sea otter is still on the endangered list.

Public support for sea otters is a lot greater than support for harbour seals decimating salmon stocks and conservation efforts.

Speaking of Salmon conservation---how about if WCVI areas that still have a 45cm limit move up to 62 cm? You'd have a zillion sport fishing guides over there and sportfishers up in arms!

I think shellfish/urchin harvesters have had it too good for too long---and sea otters are designed to keep those populations in check.

However, the makings of a sustainable population growth issue is seeded as populations recover.

some links on Sea Otters

http://oceanlink.island.net/seaotterstewardship/conservation2.html
http://www.victorialodging.com/seaotter/index.html
http://www-comm.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/publications/speciesbook/introduction/mammals.html
http://www.vanaqua.org/mmrr/seaotters/
 
With regard to sea otters, I'd like to introduce this concept of natural cycles? Happens in nature all the time. Rabbit populations go up and lynx follow, rabbit populations decline and lynx follow. Same applies to sea otters and urchins. It gets very messy, very quickly when we (humans) suddenly place a $$ vlaue on something and then want to change the way nature works. I'd suggest the biggest probelm is us (humans).

Seals weren't as big a problem when there were more fish...years of overfishing and habitat abuse (created by humans) nevermind changes in ocean productivity have resulted in the headaches that we all face now.

There is no easy, overngiht fix to this problem. 'Fix" one problem and create another...
 
quote:Originally posted by ratherbefishing

With regard to sea otters, I'd like to introduce this concept of natural cycles? Happens in nature all the time. Rabbit populations go up and lynx follow, rabbit populations decline and lynx follow. Same applies to sea otters and urchins. It gets very messy, very quickly when we (humans) suddenly place a $$ vlaue on something and then want to change the way nature works. I'd suggest the biggest probelm is us (humans).

Seals weren't as big a problem when there were more fish...years of overfishing and habitat abuse (created by humans) nevermind changes in ocean productivity have resulted in the headaches that we all face now.

There is no easy, overngiht fix to this problem. 'Fix" one problem and create another...

Agreed 100%. However, my dad can remember plenty of commercial fishermen shooting seals. The commercial fleet is much smaller these days, and fishing opportunities are now severely limited relative to years ago.

The best part was seeing seals jump out of the water onto my swim grid when a superpod of Orcas visited us in 2002. Any boat that had a swim grid probably had a seal on it that day off the mouth of the Fraser.

Here's a cool clip..break out the popcorn!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h1e2zyjkWQ
 
The seals need to be kept in check as their natural predators are not as abundant(whales, and it is only the transient whales that actually kill seals, ask any local biologist), and natives no longer hunt them, so what is to keep them in check, yes there used to be more salmon so it was easier for seals to catch them and stay away from our boats, but seals are also a smart mammal that has found an easier way to feed than chasing fish all over the place, they wait behind our boats and at river mouths, how many guys remember a time when just about everyone had bells on the end or thier rods, that in time became a dinner bell for the seals, i also remember a wolf cull on the island and it was badly needed at the time, so whoever and however it has to happen i am all for, now obviously no one is going to let a bunch of beer drinking rednecks loose in the harbors but there are more obtions available than just that
 
quote:Originally posted by dohboy

The seals need to be kept in check as their natural predators are not as abundant(whales, and it is only the transient whales that actually kill seals, ask any local biologist), and natives no longer hunt them, so what is to keep them in check, yes there used to be more salmon so it was easier for seals to catch them and stay away from our boats, but seals are also a smart mammal that has found an easier way to feed than chasing fish all over the place, they wait behind our boats and at river mouths, how many guys remember a time when just about everyone had bells on the end or thier rods, that in time became a dinner bell for the seals, i also remember a wolf cull on the island and it was badly needed at the time, so whoever and however it has to happen i am all for, now obviously no one is going to let a bunch of beer drinking rednecks loose in the harbors but there are more obtions available than just that

yes... there's also sportfishing for sea lions and seals...does this give anyone any ideas?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVl616cqlyY
 
Hmmm, we actually make more money from boat tours to see the seals than we do from fishing charters so I'm going to stay out of this one. When we set up our tours five years ago we saw decreasing salmon stocks and increasign seal populations so we decided sea safari tours was the way to go. :D

But I'm in agreement that the seal populations in our area have been increasing exponentially. Mitlenatch Island Nature Preserve is almost fully ringed by hundreds of seals all summer now and five years ago there used to just be a much smaller group on one section of one side of the island. Most of the intertidal rocks in Desolation Sound now have large colonies on each. Which is good for the tour business....
 
Dohboy -

Are there any wolves left on the island? Everything I've read (except from ranchers) has been pretty positive about wolves.

- P
 
yes there is still lots of woves left on the island, not as bad as they were about 20 yrs ago, hike around the san juan river lots of wolves there still and other areas of course, but they were out of hand for awhile
 
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