Salmon farm eviction notice delivered by First Nation Leaders!
- Thread starter Whole in the Water
- Start date
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
More power to the FN's in this effort! Yet another segment of society that is seeing the need to get these foreign owned, net pens out of the ocean and on to land where their negative impacts can be better managed. If we all keep up the political pressure then it is only a matter of time!!!
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I agree....I can't see it being an effective tool in understanding the underwater interactions, but Morton and the Sea Shepherd Society see it differently I guess. If you look at the footage provided in the Voyage for Salmon website some of that footage was from drones. You describe this pseudoscience very well.
Well part of that critical thinking by you should involve some relevant fact as they apply to this particular situation:
1. During periods of warm weather and low levels of oxygen, these fish can be closer to the surface - not great depths you outlined which apply to
2. Having other vessels in the immediate area of these pens during low dissolved oxygen events can lead to further stress on these fish. This activity can draw fish closer to the surface because they believe they are going to be fed. Feeding, during these events, is stopped until dissolved oxygen levels are more favourable.
These drones were observed to be as little as 35 feet above workers on these farms that were visited by the Sea Shepherd armada. For aerial surveys, salmon counters fly much higher - not just because of the obvious Transport Canada regulations and safety concerns, but flying very low scatters fish even those in pools that are not that deep. While working at counting fences it was common to see fish scatter as the shadow of bird passes over them. At hatcheries (which can also hold brood stock fish) those fish in those those "containers" can be scattered by birds overhead, not just me feeding them.
So, yes I see where you were going, but I believe this is a case where typical situations as you describe don't always apply.
You're welcome...and your response is in line of what I expected. Thanks.
The only "science" i see in their approach is the since employed to keep drones in the air - capture reflected electromagnetic radiation and save it digitally - and edit those sessions and redistribute the results on FaceBook. The aerial drone is an effective PR tool, only.
Well firstly - these described depths are quite shallow as far as wild salmon go - certainly not "great depths". Great depths to someone only familiar with a river perhaps - but IMHO demonstrates a lack of experience on the ocean.
2ndly - your point opens-up a much larger conversation on how the ocean works in and around fish farms - which is site-specific. But generally - fish farms are near-coastal - often operating within the influence of river discharges and estuaries. Generally - cooler and fresher water is on the top - along with plankton growth/plumes. Sometimes those blooms consist of so-called "harmful" algae - that wild salmon can submerge below to avoid. Their domesticated Atlantic cousins however - cannot. They can only go as deep as the netting allows.
Maybe, maybe not. Since many farms employ pneumatic feeders - sounds in the similar frequency range of the compressor could potentially signal a feeding event to farmed fish. But maybe not. Maybe it is the sound of the pellets hitting the surface. Be nice to see some literature supporting/rejecting this hypothesis.
Again - transposing the very different physical/wq differences of a river onto the ocean demonstrates to me that a person is struggling to understand the ocean and it's effects and very different realities - and are inexperienced in how the ocean works. The same points I covered above still apply - many birds still fly overhead at fish farms - the water clarity/visibility is still reduced - fish are still at depth - predator netting reduces visibility. It's very much NOT a pool on the river.
Absolutely. I never said always. In the winter (Jan-Feb) the visibility often clears up to 3-10m or so - assuming the farm is not placed where it interacts with the plume of a larger river which has both turbidity and plankton effects. Keep in mind how deep the fish normally are and the other things I listed.
Analysis
How a historic court decision is driving a new wave of First Nations protests
Native protesters moving on fish farms in wake of landmark decision recognizing First Nations land rights
By Richard Zussman, CBC News Posted: Aug 27, 2016 6:00 AM P
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fish-farm-protests-1.3737728
How a historic court decision is driving a new wave of First Nations protests
Native protesters moving on fish farms in wake of landmark decision recognizing First Nations land rights
By Richard Zussman, CBC News Posted: Aug 27, 2016 6:00 AM P
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fish-farm-protests-1.3737728
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
The only thing I learned from dealing with Province is that once they have a revenue source and tax dollars they will do whatever it takes to protect it. The problem is the voters continue to reelect Christy Clark and her party into power. Because of the NDP issues years ago and there is no alternative party we are stuck with farm expansion under this government. Be prepared for another liberal government. This provincial government also has shown it doesn't want to work with first nations on a number of issues when it gets in the way of industry. The liberals are bought by industry and unfortunately its the voters and the consumers poor choices in government that a driving these farms. If those didn't exist we wouldn't have this issue. With no demand for natural gas ( what the liberals were counting on) this government will fight to keep these farms, so I think that nation may expect to face a fairly lengthy legal battle.
I support land based farming like north island has. If we move to land based farming we will create more engineering/science jobs on the island, and across BC. I don't understand why the province/feds wont invest in it more. We could have a very clean industry that put a lot more technical jobs in our province and more opportunities for the workers that are in these farms currently. The technology is there. The local nanaimo engineering company designed and built the north island system. They just have to drop the costs, and refine. Anyhow that is my take on it.
The province is driving the expansion not DFO.
I support land based farming like north island has. If we move to land based farming we will create more engineering/science jobs on the island, and across BC. I don't understand why the province/feds wont invest in it more. We could have a very clean industry that put a lot more technical jobs in our province and more opportunities for the workers that are in these farms currently. The technology is there. The local nanaimo engineering company designed and built the north island system. They just have to drop the costs, and refine. Anyhow that is my take on it.
The province is driving the expansion not DFO.
Well.. the farmers are - and yes - they have substantial support from the province. In addition - it's really a cast of the same characters on the regulation front. DFO just rolled-in the ex-provincial regulators into itself from the province when they took over back again after the Morton decision in 2009/10. many - if not most of the x-prov employees were also X-FFmers before - so they have an entrenched perspective.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Is that video I am seeing with Atlantic eating fish juvenile salmon. Good god.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Found that too especially on the environmental approval front.
Well said SV. But if DFO bosses and Bio's showed the TRUTH about the environment .......and what these farms are truly doing...... DFO and FN ... And spoke loud. They would be land based.
It's all $$$$$$ not Wild Fish
fogged in
Well-Known Member
Shuswap...can you tell me what kind of fish carcass is this being handled by this Fish Farm employee and how it came to be in this state?
Oh folks, that white, the white lines, those are the Omega 3 fats that are SO SO GOOD FOR YOU. !
You were attempting to say that these fish would be much below the surface and not have visible contact with things above in the air. You are looking at ideal conditions based on how fish should behave under them. As I pointed out these particular fish in these pens were near the surface due to the reduced dissolved oxygen. In my opinion, your response demonstrates a lack of experience with fish culture and husbandry. If you would have inquired like I did from the folks that know you would have been more informed. Would you like contacts?
Actually yes. Again you need to talk to those who do this for a living instead of assuming you know the answer. As I already said feeding is suspended during these events because the act of feeding can actually make the situation worse. Not sure why you brought up pneumatic feeders.
You are struggling to understand where these fish reside during these events. They are near the surface (i.e. finning). You can criticize me all you want about my knowledge of the ocean, but it's readily apparent you are not understanding the situation. If you look at the footage provided by the Voyage for Salmon website you will see that those fish are clearly visible from the drone. If you fly aerial surveys sometime you will see why it's not very advantageous to be too close to the fish - not to mention the rotor wash. Of course one is a helicopter over a river and the other is a drone over a net pen, but it's the depth these fish are at is what I was trying to relay to you. Will their actions be the tipping point for those fish? Well that could debatable of course, but I personally do not think it helps the situation which was what I was trying to say in my original post. I will add that drones are being used now for salmon counts but not for fish pathology examinations to the best of my knowledge......
Based on the individual handling and the people taking the photo at the time I would assume it is an Atlantic Salmon. I can't say how it died based on a photo. How it came to that state? Well, following death I presume the carcass would begin to decompose and be foraged on by marine scavengers such as amphipods.
There are not "ideal" conditions Shuswap - they are "normal" - and it's based on experience. You could just admit you did not understand or know this. If you need to call someone else up to confirm this because you don't believe me since what you would like to believe is untrue - fill your boots.
Shuswap - just because you are getting answers you did not expect because you lack experience in these matters does not mean the person providing the information similarly lacks that experience.
The rotor wash?.. right Shuswap. You are really struggling now. You could just admit you were wrong. Guess that might lead to being wrong about other aspects of defending the open net cage technology and who knows where that might lead, eh?
Once again....this is turning into your own personal argument and has deviated a long way from the original subject matter. I am not interested in wasting my time cleaning up your personal piles of excrement, so if you cannot reign in your need to hit send with this kind of off topic arguing about who is the fairest in the land, then you will have to leave the school yard. I generally resist the temptation to use this type of tone when writing these warnings, but these childish behaviours need to stop now.
Brian
Brian
jeffywestcoast
Well-Known Member
haha i almost spit coffee out my nose after reading this....
Fish Camp
Well-Known Member
Remember port Alice when they turned the lights out at the mill some years ago.every one left at 20k for their homes and a stronger out of countery $ bought them and sold them on the market for 100-120K.so if you think you want to get involved with displacing farm fish from the ocean ,you will be displaceing many thousands of people on the north island ,but what the heck seeing as you have high speed internet and most families on the north island do not have computers you can form a thread to thin them from there homes.You helped bring the farms here, too put people to work so they stay healthy.will they clean up after there industrius activity or pass the buck like the victoria lk healing center .(what do they farm there) besides the biggest cutties i have ever seen.remember these farms only have to show a proffit of 1$ and they get the grants ,so all the money these farms make go directly to the communitys of the north island.lifespan of a farm is 20 years till decommision.We as canadians could be sued for failer to produce the fish to the global market just like the oil .
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