Salmon farm eviction notice delivered by First Nation Leaders!

[bigdogeh]

Thxs for bringing the topic up in the first place WitW.
Would be nice to see it brought up on the more mainstream media (TV) stations...

 

[Whitebuck]

Great post BigDogeh!!!!

 

[Whitebuck]

Would also be great if certain bands in the lower Fraser got media attention on how they went way over their sockeye allotment and how now the up-river bands will be SOL on getting there food fish that they actually eat and not sell

 

[Birdsnest]

Would also be great if certain bands in the lower Fraser got media attention on how they went way over their sockeye allotment and how now the up-river bands will be SOL on getting there food fish that they actually eat and not sell

Interesting post. One one hand you support the first nations in managing there resources the way they want in there territory(evicting fish farms) then on the other hand you criticize how they are managing their resources the way they want in another section.

So please tell me how I am wrong about people's bias on this issue. Should be entertaining to hear this...

I think its pretty clear that Dave and Steve have never profited from salmon farming in bc. You accuse them of being bias and I think your wrong. It is clear to me that you don't have much to contradict the info they bring to the table here so you say their bias so you don't have to respond to the actual information they provide.

Again it is likely that we are not getting the whole story. What we have seen is some a video kind ceremony which confronts a random staff member of that company on a fish farm from a small handful of individuals who claim to be members of the local band. Thats about it. I would find it hard to believe that is wasn't produced and edited by the same group from the mv sheen and morton clan who are on a virus hunt but seem to be mostly distracted my mort totes and how smelly they are and ewe maggots etc. The only connection would the the poster on utube. Not that it maters I'm just saying its clear they are not doing this independently.

I wonder who's idea it was for these native to execute this eviction. I know that here in tofino when the ahousats were held up on the fish farm that was being anchored morton and others(some career activists) couldnt get out here soon enough to get credit. Some of the locals were supper pissed that they showed up and did not want them their in the protest.

 

[terrin]

Interesting post. One one hand you support the first nations in managing there resources the way they want in there territory(evicting fish farms) then on the other hand you criticize how they are managing their resources the way they want in another section.



I think its pretty clear that Dave and Steve have never profited from salmon farming in bc. You accuse them of being bias and I think your wrong. It is clear to me that you don't have much to contradict the info they bring to the table here so you say their bias so you don't have to respond to the actual information they provide.

Again it is likely that we are not getting the whole story. What we have seen is some a video kind ceremony which confronts a random staff member of that company on a fish farm from a small handful of individuals who claim to be members of the local band. Thats about it. I would find it hard to believe that is wasn't produced and edited by the same group from the mv sheen and morton clan who are on a virus hunt but seem to be mostly distracted my mort totes and how smelly they are and ewe maggots etc. The only connection would the the poster on utube. Not that it maters I'm just saying its clear they are not doing this independently.

I wonder who's idea it was for these native to execute this eviction. I know that here in tofino when the ahousats were held up on the fish farm that was being anchored morton and others(some career activists) couldnt get out here soon enough to get credit. Some of the locals were supper pissed that they showed up and did not want them their in the protest.

The issue legally is there is no consent to have farm fish polluting their pantry, similarly to no consent for enbridge and no consent for the flooding of the Peace River for unneeded electricity. Hopefully the courts will rule in favor of the First Nations, the environment and the public at large. Thats the whole story unless you got proof to the contrary.

 

[gone fishin]

. I know that here in tofino when the ahousats were held up on the fish farm that was being anchored .

I didn't know the Ahousats in Tofino were apposed to fish farms...was there some kind of sit in?
please tell me more.

 

[Birdsnest]

I didn't know the Ahousats in Tofino were apposed to fish farms...was there some kind of sit in?
please tell me more.

Members, citizens of ahousat originally were protesting the band office for its lack of transparency within the community on the decisions to put a farm in a new area. Not another farm but a new location for an old site. Their complaint was with the band office and their protest was to put a halt to the anchoring of the new site until there was transparency with the agreement and details. I suspect that the original protesters wanted to see the paperwork and the agreement between the farm company and the band office for non of that info was available to the regular ahousat citizens. I would also imagine that there was $$$ involved and the community members wanted to know how much and how that money would be distributed.

Then the career protesters got wind of this and the race was on to get out on that system and get photos an on the the news. The protest was quickly steered in another direction that was not the intent of the original protest.
The farm company basically said to the band to get their internal communications issues sorted so that the whole community is on the same page. Meanwhile victory is claimed by the career protesters and the end of day message was "first nations boot salmon farm from their territory" but that is far from the truth.

This is not the story you would see on the news which is why I suspect we are not getting the whole picture on the issue in this thread.

This became somewhat empowering to some of the local ahousats who spent a good part of the summer driving around the area collecting money from anyone they could find in the area as a permit fees. Apparently the province stepped in last week and put a stop to that. I imagine the barely collected enough money to pay for the boats gas.

Its chaos out here. Has been for many years. Its something you won't see unless you have lived here for a very long time.

Still tho its a great place with great people.

 

[Whole in the Water]

Interesting post. One one hand you support the first nations in managing there resources the way they want in there territory(evicting fish farms) then on the other hand you criticize how they are managing their resources the way they want in another section.



I think its pretty clear that Dave and Steve have never profited from salmon farming in bc. You accuse them of being bias and I think your wrong. It is clear to me that you don't have much to contradict the info they bring to the table here so you say their bias so you don't have to respond to the actual information they provide.

Again it is likely that we are not getting the whole story. What we have seen is some a video kind ceremony which confronts a random staff member of that company on a fish farm from a small handful of individuals who claim to be members of the local band. Thats about it. I would find it hard to believe that is wasn't produced and edited by the same group from the mv sheen and morton clan who are on a virus hunt but seem to be mostly distracted my mort totes and how smelly they are and ewe maggots etc. The only connection would the the poster on utube. Not that it maters I'm just saying its clear they are not doing this independently.

I wonder who's idea it was for these native to execute this eviction. I know that here in tofino when the ahousats were held up on the fish farm that was being anchored morton and others(some career activists) couldnt get out here soon enough to get credit. Some of the locals were supper pissed that they showed up and did not want them their in the protest.

Again you get it wrong. My whole point in this thread is this. Dave says Shuswap has no bias for or against fish farms (i.e. he is neutral on the topic). I and others on the forum say this is not true. Why. Very simple, he does not point out any errors or problems with the net pen fish farming industry. So..., we say he has a bias of supporting fish farms and is not neutral on this controversial industry. It is not an issue if anyone has profited from fish farms, but about being honest about their bias on this issue. I cannot make my point any simpler than this.

 

[Birdsnest]

Again you get it wrong. My whole point in this thread is this. Dave says Shuswap has no bias for or against fish farms (i.e. he is neutral on the topic). I and others on the forum say this is not true. Why. Very simple, he does not point out any errors or problems with the net pen fish farming industry. So..., we say he has a bias of supporting fish farms and is not neutral on this controversial industry. It is not an issue if anyone has profited from fish farms, but about being honest about their bias on this issue. I cannot make my point any simpler than this.

Thanks for clearly demonstrating your simplicity.

 

[shuswap]

A reasonable reply, but kinda misses the point here. Logic and common sense would dictate that unless one puts a similar amount of effort into pointing out the problems with net pen salmon farms trying to say one is unbiased or neutral on this issue rings hollow. You say above you are not against net pen farm fishing and in doing this and not pointing out any problems with the net open industry, you clearly display your bias to support this industry - which was my point in the first place.

Well if that's the case then logic and common sense would dictate you're biased so what's your point - really? Never said anything about being biased or neutral on this. I'm just not going to go along with conclusions and claims that are wrong just so I can appear "unbiased" and get tons of likes and be everyone's buddy. That's not how I roll. If that makes me biased then guilty as charged.

 

[shuswap]

Agree with most of your post Shuswap - this part however - is stretching it. Think about it...

Explain. Having worked at fish hatcheries I would say that I'm not. If a drone is flying over fish why would they be any different from a bird flying over fish. Think about it...

 

[shuswap]

Shuswaps done a good job of deflecting the issue of the FN's wanting the fish farms out of their territory and having people try to concentrate on whether a few fish in the tote are wild salmon or invasive atlantic species.
the real issue and important issue is the first nations want the fish farms out of their territories for many of the same reasons as these First Nations mentioned in a quote below do that support the First Nations this thread is about. these are also the same issues that most people that have looked into this industry and see the way it operates and what damages it has done here and to other countries as well, would like to quell.
This is an industry that is using our salmon migration routes as it's sewage dump because it's easier and cheaper than setting up shop on land. But that's OK with Shuswap. He say's he's not against open pen fish farms but won't come out and say he supports them. I think most that have read his posts would come to the conclusion he's for them and supports them.
these are the more important reasons (see quote below) the First Nations want fish farms out of their territories. I don't see mention of any species in totes in the eviction notices but Shuswap would like us to see that as the main issue or focus in this thread.
good job Shuswap.
Fortunately, I don't think most buy the koolaid you and your industry and big government are selling. We can see the big picture and can see the damage these farms are having on our environment and wild salmon runs...

The fish in the tote and how disgusting they were are in the video at the start of the thread. False claims were made about those fish. You seem to be the one deflecting away from it because it puts critics in a bad light. But if you want to go after me like Senator McCarthy because I don't see things like you that's fine. You see the big picture here? Please describe it in your own words then I will get my turn. Deal?

 

[shuswap]

Again you get it wrong. My whole point in this thread is this. Dave says Shuswap has no bias for or against fish farms (i.e. he is neutral on the topic). I and others on the forum say this is not true. Why. Very simple, he does not point out any errors or problems with the net pen fish farming industry. So..., we say he has a bias of supporting fish farms and is not neutral on this controversial industry. It is not an issue if anyone has profited from fish farms, but about being honest about their bias on this issue. I cannot make my point any simpler than this.

I am not too concerned about your concerns about my biases because it sort of like the pot calling the kettle black. I said all I need to on this. If you want to talk about these problems then feel free but be prepared for push back if you go off with rhetoric and false claims.

 

[shuswap]

Putting the "fish tote" issue aside, most would agree the eviction notice by the first nations people asking for the fish farms to be removed should send a clear message to the Fish Farms. Agreed?

Many agree Trump will make a great president.......

To answer your question.....It may be a clear message but it was the act of creating the letter and having the media report on it which was the main emphasis.

 

[agentaqua]

Explain. Having worked at fish hatcheries I would say that I'm not. If a drone is flying over fish why would they be any different from a bird flying over fish. Think about it...

Wow Shuswap! I consider that your post is enlightening - in that it explains a lot about why you support open net-pens in the marine environment. If you confuse your experience wrt freshwater hatcheries and subsequently transpose that limited experience as appropriate in understanding the marine environment and how fish farms interact with that environment - well frankly - that explains the reason for that confusion to me.

Although I find it odd that I would need to explain this - thank you for that opportunity. Where to begin?...hmmm...

ok - 1st off I can't see that an aerial drone would be terribly effective as a tool in understanding the underwater interactions inherent with the open net-cage technology - or would provide much more information that one could see using ones own built-in eyes wrt on-site above-water operations.

2ndly - you already partially covered the answer of your question on your own - w/o any critical thinking over the differnces between fw hatcheries and marine net-cage sites. Let me explain:

3 things to consider - 1/ life history stages and behaviour, 2/ water clarity/turbidity/visibility and light transmission, and 3/ containers and physical restrictions...

If you consider that - as you correctly pointed-out - a drone would be expected to be no more/less threatening as a bird flying overhead - then that fish would need to see that "bird" in order to have a temporary startle response. Can you see where I am going with this yet?

So, in FW hatcheries you are dealing with juvies who usually like to be within a meter or 2 of the surface, the water is generally quite clear, and the depth of those containers are generally only a meter or 2 and that's as deep as a fish can go.

In stark contrast to that reality - in the marine environment - you are often dealing with larger fish that often like to be in the 60-80 foot depths when they are not getting fed and jostling for pellets, the water clarity is often 2-3m to less than 0.8 m due to plankton and other water quality properties, and the containers let them go often upwards of 120 ft deep and have a predator net over the top (that further reduces visibility).

And yes - birds fly overhead all the time there.

 

[Whole in the Water]

I am not too concerned about your concerns about my biases because it sort of like the pot calling the kettle black. I said all I need to on this. If you want to talk about these problems then feel free but be prepared for push back if you go off with rhetoric and false claims.

It is obvious to all where your bias lies now. Your response here again is in line for a net pen, salmon feedlot supporter. Thanks for the further confirmation and clearing up any uncertainty on this issue.

I and others on this forum will continue to work to get net pen fish farms out of the water where they pollute and spread disease and on to the land where their negative impacts can be better managed.

You are free to say whatever you want and we can all enjoy the benefits of freedom of speech that democracy brings

 

[Whole in the Water]

.

Thanks for clearly demonstrating your simplicity.

You are welcome BN. Anytime folks need simple things explained until they finally get it I am more the willing to help them out.

 

[Rockfish]

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/l...r-clayoquot-sound-fish-farm-protest-1.2331413

The FN's are heating things up.

 

[high tide]

Shout Loud and Proud FN Tribes. ........ Your Federal government is Killing your Food and Cerimonial fish.

Don't stop till these farms are land based or gone.

The FERDERAL GOVERNMENT and Provincial Gov. Gave caved to BIG BUSINESS. DONT LET IT HAPPEN.

BRING BACK OUR WILD STOCKS !

 

[wishiniwasfishin1]

Keep it up boys! Hopefully the public will become aware of the what these farm scumbags are doing to our salmon.