Salmon farm eviction notice delivered by First Nation Leaders!

[Dave]

Haha. No wonder people
Distrust the fish farm industry. Just can't give a straight answer. Typical smoke and mirrors. if your a supporter fess up. Only reason not to is shame.

Are you asking me to 'fess up? If so, you haven't read my posts, lol!

 

[Dave]

Be pretty awesome if the general public got this fired up about the main issues these fish are facing....NETS!!!!!
While yes there is some issues with farms, at least with them it's an easy fix- landlocked lakes. What about the Campbell river band who is raising them in pens on land? Can't remember the whole story, maybe someone can provide a link.

How many fish do you think the sports fishing industry take Whitebuck? Scary numbers I bet if you factor in all the lodges and resident anglers.
I think the land based operation you are referring to is Kuterra, operated by the Namgis. A good product but pricey ... I once asked if any from this site had tried it, other than me.
No response.

 

[terrin]

How much do you know about those fish in those totes? As for dumping, have you ever seen a repitch pile of salmon carcasses on the riverbank or a pool in a salmon spawning stream with salmon carcasses at the bottom? What do think happens to those carcasses and what do you think is creeping in them? I admit that maggots are gross, but how do you think they get in those carcasses?

Although the video was intended to show this First Nations opposition to fish farms in their traditional territory without their consent the piece about these fish in these totes is filled with misinformation and highly dramatic meant to incite fear amongst First Nations, but does little to actually inform them or the general public. Identifying these as wild salmon from bones in a tote with rotting fish is laughable - not much else to say. Whether you agree or disagree with salmon farming in BC I find it hard to defend this Sea Shepard venture as legitimate science which in my opinion has done zero to further our knowledge about what folks want to know.

Once again I did not suggest nor does the video report those rotten dead fish in the Mort tote were anything other than farm fish. If you however have information to the contrary please provide the details. Thanks

 

[Clint r]

Are you asking me to 'fess up? If so, you haven't read my posts, lol!

Nope. Just sayin it's obvious who's a supporter and who's not. Seems to me the non supporters are pretty vocal and don't hide from their position.(right or wrong) Supporters on the other hand....

 

[shuswap]

Once again I did not suggest nor does the video report those rotten dead fish in the Mort tote were anything other than farm fish. If you however have information to the contrary please provide the details. Thanks

I posted the source back in the first page of this thread. Here it is again:
https://www.voyageforsalmon.ca/dzawadaenuxw-board-salmon-farms-territory/

Sorry, I didn't specifically mean you identified them as wild salmon - I was talking about the Morton and those other individuals that day that made those observations.

 

[shuswap]

All depends on one's point of view, whether you support net pen fish farms or not. Shuswap by his/her previous posts on this forum definitely supports fish farms. To deny that is not being a 'supporter of actual facts on the subject'.

You seem so intrigued by my apparent support for fish farms so I will respond to your inquiries. I'm not against net pen fish farming in BC but I'm also not against closed containment either or its development into something more wide scale. My opposition is primarily at the biological conclusions/claims (specifically with Pacific Salmon) made by fish farm critics in order to make their case. Case in point these alleged wild salmon in these totes. Nothing more than propaganda. I don't see anyone here call that out. Would that be some bias?

I don't agree with Morton's tactics or how she goes about her "scientific" work. I cannot nod my head in unison with others here that figure that she is a knowledgeable authority. I can go into numerous examples where she doesn't know what she's talking. In addition, I also try see the current issues much broader than most fish farm critics seem to want to do. I feel solely focusing on fish farms and implying that their removal will bring the wild salmon back in droves is similar to a snake oil salesman saying that their tonic is the secret cure for whatever ails you. Lastly, I support the current research (i.e. Fish Health Initiative) going on and not quasi science done from a sailboat which misinforms the public. I'm not going to reply on every fish farm thread but when I read the observations on the fish in this fish tote it has to be called out.

 

[gone fishin]

You seem so intrigued by my apparent support for fish farms so I will respond to your inquiries. I'm not against net pen fish farming in BC but I'm also not against closed containment either or its development into something more wide scale. My opposition is primarily at the biological conclusions/claims (specifically with Pacific Salmon) made by fish farm critics in order to make their case. Case in point these alleged wild salmon in these totes. Nothing more than propaganda. I don't see anyone here call that out. Would that be some bias?

I don't agree with Morton's tactics or how she goes about her "scientific" work. I cannot nod my head in unison with others here that figure that she is a knowledgeable authority. I can go into numerous examples where she doesn't know what she's talking. In addition, I also try see the current issues much broader than most fish farm critics seem to want to do. I feel solely focusing on fish farms and implying that their removal will bring the wild salmon back in droves is similar to a snake oil salesman saying that their tonic is the secret cure for whatever ails you. Lastly, I support the current research (i.e. Fish Health Initiative) going on and not quasi science done from a sailboat which misinforms the public. I'm not going to reply on every fish farm thread but when I read the observations on the fish in this fish tote it has to be called out.

Putting the "fish tote" issue aside, most would agree the eviction notice by the first nations people asking for the fish farms to be removed should send a clear message to the Fish Farms. Agreed?

 

[Birdsnest]

Putting the "fish tote" issue aside, most would agree the eviction notice by the first nations people asking for the fish farms to be removed should send a clear message to the Fish Farms. Agreed?

If its based on misinformation?

I have a feeling what we are seeing from the media and the activist end of the story isn't showing the whole story.

Having lived in tofino and been a steady user of traditional territories of first nations I can tell you that there is likely more to this story. It is very very complex. Gord is right. First nations communities and people need help. But handing everything over will never fix anything.

 

[high tide]

Putting the "fish tote" issue aside, most would agree the eviction notice by the first nations people asking for the fish farms to be removed should send a clear message to the Fish Farms. Agreed?

Absolutely, get the First Nations to pipe Louder and Longer and get them Dam sea based Pens off This Coast.

They are the only ones Heard !

Mean while ..... The Death to the natural Wild Pacific Continues.

 

[Whole in the Water]

You seem so intrigued by my apparent support for fish farms so I will respond to your inquiries. I'm not against net pen fish farming in BC but I'm also not against closed containment either or its development into something more wide scale. My opposition is primarily at the biological conclusions/claims (specifically with Pacific Salmon) made by fish farm critics in order to make their case. Case in point these alleged wild salmon in these totes. Nothing more than propaganda. I don't see anyone here call that out. Would that be some bias?

I don't agree with Morton's tactics or how she goes about her "scientific" work. I cannot nod my head in unison with others here that figure that she is a knowledgeable authority. I can go into numerous examples where she doesn't know what she's talking. In addition, I also try see the current issues much broader than most fish farm critics seem to want to do. I feel solely focusing on fish farms and implying that their removal will bring the wild salmon back in droves is similar to a snake oil salesman saying that their tonic is the secret cure for whatever ails you. Lastly, I support the current research (i.e. Fish Health Initiative) going on and not quasi science done from a sailboat which misinforms the public. I'm not going to reply on every fish farm thread but when I read the observations on the fish in this fish tote it has to be called out.

A reasonable reply, but kinda misses the point here. Logic and common sense would dictate that unless one puts a similar amount of effort into pointing out the problems with net pen salmon farms trying to say one is unbiased or neutral on this issue rings hollow. You say above you are not against net pen farm fishing and in doing this and not pointing out any problems with the net open industry, you clearly display your bias to support this industry - which was my point in the first place.

 

[Birdsnest]

Funny how on this forum anonymity is paramount unless you speak of facts which may be for salmon aquaculture, then the facts get pushed aside and it becomes all about bias and what your background is etc etc. If you don't like the facts then go at the facts. In this case it would seem that AM's "science" is what this eviction thing is based on and it isn't very credible.

 

[Whole in the Water]

Funny how on this forum anonymity is paramount unless you speak of facts which may be for salmon aquaculture, then the facts get pushed aside and it becomes all about bias and what your background is etc etc. If you don't like the facts then go at the facts. In this case it would seem that AM's "science" is what this eviction thing is based on and it isn't very credible.

Nope, ya got it wrong! My posts where about pointing out people saying they do not have any bias on this issue when they obviously do. I have a bias, and make no bones about it, just like you do BN and many others on the forum on this issue. There is no problem with people who have a bias (it is the most common position for us humans), my issue here was about those who say they don't have a bias, when they do.

 

[Birdsnest]

Nope, ya got it wrong! My posts where about pointing out people saying they do not have any bias on this issue when they obviously do. I have a bias, and make no bones about it, just like you do BN and many others on the forum on this issue. There is no problem with people who have a bias (it is the most common position for us humans), my issue here was about those who say they don't have a bias, when they do.

I think you may be wrong about who is bias and who isn't. Never the less bringing it up all the time is a complete deflection of from the facts in the discussion IMO.

 

[Whole in the Water]

I think you may be wrong about who is bias and who isn't. Never the less bringing it up all the time is a complete deflection of from the facts in the discussion IMO.

So please tell me how I am wrong about people's bias on this issue. Should be entertaining to hear this...

 

[Whitebuck]

Dave, netting in terminal areas is a lot different than rec guys at the lodges who are targeting stocks from California to Alaska.
No comparison.

 

[agentaqua]

Dave, netting in terminal areas is a lot different than rec guys at the lodges who are targeting stocks from California to Alaska.No comparison.

You are right, whitebuck. It sure is. Pros and cons on both sides of that argument, though. depends on stock assessment info and management regimes.

If a person is fishing using any gear in a terminal area with adequate abundance and limited weak stocks - or appropriate weak stock management - then that can be the best option.

If a person is lightly fishing mixed stocks - and we can differentiate weak stocks (e.g. the WCVI "quota" for trollers) - that could be a better option.

All depends upon species-specific timing, adequate in-season escapement data, and appropriate management and enforcement.

 

[agentaqua]

As for the use of drones....Well how do you think fish would react to birds flying overhead, like in a hatchery? If fish are already stressed from from other factors it certainly doesn't help matters.

Agree with most of your post Shuswap - this part however - is stretching it. Think about it...

 

[Clint r]

Funny how on this forum anonymity is paramount unless you speak of facts which may be for salmon aquaculture, then the facts get pushed aside and it becomes all about bias and what your background is etc etc. If you don't like the facts then go at the facts. In this case it would seem that AM's "science" is what this eviction thing is based on and it isn't very credible.

I'd like to see the concrete proof fish farms arnt having an adverse effect on salmon. Not the farm sponsored study's but something truly independent. Fish farms telling me everything's fine is kind of like the fox guarding the henhouse

 

[bigdogeh]

Putting the "fish tote" issue aside, most would agree the eviction notice by the first nations people asking for the fish farms to be removed should send a clear message to the Fish Farms. Agreed?

Shuswaps done a good job of deflecting the issue of the FN's wanting the fish farms out of their territory and having people try to concentrate on whether a few fish in the tote are wild salmon or invasive atlantic species.
the real issue and important issue is the first nations want the fish farms out of their territories for many of the same reasons as these First Nations mentioned in a quote below do that support the First Nations this thread is about. these are also the same issues that most people that have looked into this industry and see the way it operates and what damages it has done here and to other countries as well, would like to quell.
This is an industry that is using our salmon migration routes as it's sewage dump because it's easier and cheaper than setting up shop on land. But that's OK with Shuswap. He say's he's not against open pen fish farms but won't come out and say he supports them. I think most that have read his posts would come to the conclusion he's for them and supports them.
these are the more important reasons (see quote below) the First Nations want fish farms out of their territories. I don't see mention of any species in totes in the eviction notices but Shuswap would like us to see that as the main issue or focus in this thread.
good job Shuswap.
Fortunately, I don't think most buy the koolaid you and your industry and big government are selling. We can see the big picture and can see the damage these farms are having on our environment and wild salmon runs...

"Mountain Robert on August 14, 2016 at 2:24 pm
We stand with our neighbours/family on the removal of the fish farms from our shared territories, Gilakasla.

We the Hereditary Chief of the Mamalilikulla band(Village Island), near Alert Bay BC, of the Kwakwala nations. We have never been consulted to have any open net pens in my territory at all. I am writing to you because all our resources are in danger from these fish farms. They are killing the salmon with sea lice and diseases, eulachons and herring are being caught, getting disease and eaten by atlantics. Our clam gardens are being contaminated and are dying off, get your farms off our gardens. As per all court cases, now you need consent to be in our territory, none was given and you never asked for permission to be there

Our aboriginal laws are strict, you cannot go into our territory without the HC permission. Also if you want to do anything, you need consent from a HC.

Here is list of no consent given:
No consent on having them in our territory
No consent on siting criteria.
No consent on where they were put
No consent on the 30×30 cages
No consent on the expansion to 100×100 pens
No consent for any further expansion of pens, biomass or sites
No consent to put alien species(atlantic) in our waters
No consent to put diseased fish in our waters
No consent to use chemicals to vaccinate these diseases
No consent to use chemicals to rid atlantic of sea lice
No consent to use chemicals for furnucolous disease
No consent to use chemicals for bacterial kidney disease
No consent to trap herring, eulachons and other fish in pens
No consent given to freely dispose of feces in our waters
No consent given to use hydrogen peroxide in our waters and to dump it
As you see here there was never any type of consultation or consent to the rightful title holders.
As your government has signed the UNDRIP, you believe you need consent.

Wild salmon , clams, groundfish, and shellfish is our grocery store and is of most important to us as First Nations for our survival.
We want these fish farms out of our territory as do other First Nations.
We have to be consulted, give consent and be part of your decisions.
We will wait your answer to this request to review your actions of never meeting or getting consent from us.
We want all fish farms removed from our area.
Thank you from Mamalilikulla HC Robert Mountain III."

 

[Whole in the Water]

Great post, thanks for bringing this thread back on topic!