proposed coal ship anchorages off gabriola

[GLG]

Here's some info from 2 countries that are years ahead of us. Why go down this same path? The last 2 links are the dirty little secret I was referring to, if it looks like this now imagine when there's enough neodymium produced to have a meaningful impact. And rest assured NIMBYISM (not meant to be derogatory just the easiest way to convey the idea) will ensure it's produced in some third world backwater not domestically.


http://theenergycollective.com/robe...ck-germany-does-not-get-half-its-energy-solar

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...ower-chaos-should-be-a-warning-to-the-UK.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...elied-upon-to-deliver-UK-energy-security.html


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/05/clean-energys-dirty-little-secret/307377/

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/aug/07/china-rare-earth-village-pollution

Your sources are suspect because the come from a right wing rags (except guardian) that are famous for it's climate change reporting and climate change denial. You want facts.... there are other sources that have more responsible reporting on those facts. Here is one that comes from the Industry and German government. It tells a different picture then that media.
http://www.unendlich-viel-energie.de/media/file/400.AEE_Talking_Cards_2015_engl_final.pdf
or here
http://energytransition.de/

You're correct the planet doesn't need more fossil fuels it needs better fossil fuels. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out that on a cold dark Canadian winter day when demand is at it's highest solar output will be at it's lowest and we simply don't have sufficient storage capacity to get us by. Same for wind are you ready to wager your home heating in January or fridge and freezer contents on it when the sun doesn't shine for weeks? Even if we built enough renewable that actually had sufficient output, not capacity we still need backup for the significant off time. Starting that kind of power generation up everyday isn't like flicking a light switch so these backup plants chug along inefficiently and expensively 24/7. Pick your poison for that source, kinda makes a good case for NG doesn't it? Please read those links they're full of facts and actual numbers.

Ah yes the solution to our fossil fuel problem is more fossil fuels. Who would have thought, face plant. There are solution if we have the courage to find them. Can we do everything tomorrow, no we need a plan for a transition. Ever here of net zero housing? Would it surprise you to know that the leaders in this field are in Alberta? Do they know something that we don't.
http://www.greenenergyfutures.ca/episodes?topics=net-zero

Yes we need backup but would it surprise you to know that if we had an electric fleet it could offer backup as well as storage for renewable energy. Here is an example of one of many such solutions and as all things in technology the price comes down with time and the products get better. Think computers and cellphones.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1076589_nissan-launches-leaf-to-home-electric-car-power-system

Because society demands the energy and products they deliver. Do you think the big corps produce these things you rally against for fun? Wanna stop production, then stop consumption. 60% of emissions from a barrel of oil come from consumption not production. The earths population grows by 170 people every minute and they all want the same things you take for granted. Shouldn't they be able to take their friends up to Browns Bay for a day of sockeye fishing?

Yes the Koch Brothers fund all that climate change denial for fun or maybe they are more interested in their wealth and protecting it. You always come back to that argument that the only way to slow down consumption is never to slow down production. We can do both. You slow down consumption by using Cap and Trade or Fee and Dividend. You can slow down production by regulation.

Interesting, I hadn't heard about this it almost sounds like a protectionist policy, where's the domestic suppliers that should be stepping up? Surely they can compete with a 300% tariff added can't they? Or can they? Perhaps there's a reason Canada focuses on what it can compete at which is resource extraction.

Yes we have suppliers in Canada, they are in Ontario and are being attacked on all fronts.

Very much like if we were to eliminate all big industry from Canada, it won't help as much as people think. It would actually put the planet back a step because (as I've said 100 times but you seem unwilling to accept or don't actually care) someone else will pick up the slack and it won't be done better than here. Like you've said before "who cares let them clean up their own mess, we've got commitments." That really doesn't sound like something someone who cares about the planet would say. it sounds like someone with a different agenda. Where do you want the petroleum base products for the plastics you use everyday to come from? How about the met coal, the natural gas (not just for fuel you use something made from it EVERYDAY), the copper etc? Ready to go without?

Yes I have an agenda... it's for future generations. My family goes way back in Canada, 200 years before confederation and I have a stubborn streak I got from them that I'm sure you have noticed. I'm not apposed to resource industry in Canada. I'm apposed to resource industry capture in government. We need to look at everything that has a heavy footprint on the environment CO2 and otherwise. Yes we need plastic, but is that not a better use of our fossil fuels then burning it? Yes we need fertilizers and is that not a better use of fossil fuels then burning them. Yes we need NG here in Canada and the US to transition from coal power plants. I'm not against met coal as that is not the same as thermal coal and is needed to help with this transition. Same with copper as long as it's done right and not like the mess we had here in the Comox Valley that we are still fixing with tax payer money.
"Ready to go without" Their you go again with the false choice argument. Why can't we do both? Protect the environment and the economy. Why do we have to chose one or the other?
Back to agenda.... I have no money invested in renewables, my money is invested in bonds and is a balance of Canadian an BC municipal bonds. So I'm invested in the community and pays a steady 5%. I'm also transitioning to renewables but can only do it so fast. Last year I bought a hybrid car for the wife she went from 14L/100 Km to 4L/100 Km. Here is what I'm looking at now.
http://shoreenergy.ca/productsservices/the-sun-pump/

To stimulate investment as there's competition in this space. I think we should give the solar industry a break from carbon tax too, surely with that and a 300% tariff they could compete. If these renewable technologies were actually viable I'd be all over giving them the same breaks as the energy sector gets but since they aren't it would be a waste of time and money and once you factored in unreliable output and backup needs we'd go backwards pretty fast. When you consider the last sentence don't just think operationally, think of how much material goes into the infrastructure for such minimal returns.

Most countries around the world seem to think that it is worth the effort to go to renewable energy. Why is it that Canada is betting against it? Could be that the line between the fossil fuel industry and government is so blurred that you can't tell where one stops and the other begins. We will have to agree to disagree on the value of renewables.

Do some research on countries that are ahead of us if you don't like my sources above. Don't get tricked by the words capacity and output as you dig into it.

I didn't say anything about solar, I said raws for rare earth magnets. There could potentially be tons of jobs in solar when you figure out how many it's gonna take to power the world and the fact they don't last but 25 years, so there's always that upside.

Yes I'm full aware of the difference between name plate and output and have been for a long time. Are you aware that not all wind turbines use rare earth magnets? Yes the potential for jobs in Canada is huge for both solar, wind and home efficiency because you can't outsource the installation of that. Pity we didn't grab wind power when Alberta was set to be a world leader oh so many years ago.

OK so we agree we're not there yet, what do you suggest we do in the meantime?

Ugh, we're doing it again Gilbert!

"A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be."
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/w/waynegretz131510.html#liVwMCjo3sjkWtqZ.99."

I'll leave you with one idea for BC renewable. If we capitalize on our renewable energy we could store that extra power behind dams for later use when the wind is not blowing and the sun is not shinning. I think the salmon would like that idea when in summer we have to balance water for salmon and water for electric generation. Seems like a win win in our books.

 

[GLG]

3X5 this is interesting, from the UK and a reliable source.
It's a path when there is too much wind and too much sun.

http://www2.nationalgrid.com/uk/industry-information/future-of-energy/


And here is something else from the UK. FYI the host is from the comedy tv show "Red Dwarf"

[OIdUdhJxIt0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIdUdhJxIt0

 

[GLG]

3X5 I think you of all people can see the potential of this research.
Danger ... the future is closer then you think.
[LJV4d4XtHuo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJV4d4XtHuo

 

[GLG]

Behind the scenes of the UK's National Grid (this was back in May 2012 and they have another 3 years under their belt)

[vX0G9F42puY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX0G9F42puY

 

[triplenickel]

3X5 I think you of all people can see the potential of this research.
Danger ... the future is closer then you think.
[LJV4d4XtHuo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJV4d4XtHuo

That's very cool.

 

[bigdogeh]

That's very cool.

It is very cool, I agree. our governments need to soon embrace these newer, greener forms of energy and technology. They are out there and exist. and they can supply jobs also. other countries are on board or are getting on board but sometimes it seems our country (maybe more our leaders) has it's head in the sand. I hope that changes soon....
thxs for sharing GLG!

 

[triplenickel]

Yes we need plastic, but is that not a better use of our fossil fuels then burning it? Yes we need fertilizers and is that not a better use of fossil fuels then burning them.

This isn't what I asked, I asked where you want them to come from.

Ah yes the solution to our fossil fuel problem is more fossil fuels

Not more, better I was very clear in my post.

Change is inevitable and in everyone's best interest, there's no question. The point I've been trying to make is that while it's inevitable we're not there yet. So in the meantime why wouldn't we support Canadian resource industries? They're good for Canada and better for the planet as a whole.

 

[GLG]

This isn't what I asked, I asked where you want them to come from.



Not more, better I was very clear in my post.

Change is inevitable and in everyone's best interest, there's no question. The point I've been trying to make is that while it's inevitable we're not there yet. So in the meantime why wouldn't we support Canadian resource industries? They're good for Canada and better for the planet as a whole.

Ah yes more hide the pea under the shuffle cup and ask me to pick again.
If you waiting for me to give you a free pass then your dealing with the wrong guy.


http://www4.unfccc.int/submissions/INDC/Published Documents/Canada/1/INDC - Canada - English.pdf

These are our commitments to the world.

Canada intends to achieve an economy-wide target to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions by 30% below 2005 levels by 2030

This is how we are doing.

Canada is making progress in reducing our emissions – from 2005 to 2013, Canadian greenhouse gas emissions decreased by 3.1% while the economy grew by 12.9%

Clearly we are not on track in BC with the plans to increase our GHG's. Since you have taken responsibility to represent the NG industry how are you going to achieve these goals? What policy and solutions do you see to get us to these goals.

 

[triplenickel]

What policy and solutions do you see to get us to these goals.

We've been through them before in the GHG thread so I'm not gonna repeat myself, don't pretend for even a second you actually have an open mind or acceptance of reality you live in the world of ideals.

Ah yes more hide the pea under the shuffle cup and ask me to pick again.
If you waiting for me to give you a free pass then your dealing with the wrong guy.
Since you have taken responsibility to represent the NG industry

Now you're just making things up.

You can't even face the reality of the simple question of where you want these resources to come from, are you afraid to face the hard question? There's no "pea shuffle cup" just cold hard reality of delivering YOU what YOU need for your way of life. Ideals are great but you need a reality check.

So again if not Canada, where do you want these resources to come from? It's clear and we both agree while there's hope in the future it's not coming tomorrow so support your neighbors and friends that work in the resource sector, Canada is dead in the water without it. It doesn't work like Mulcair's campaign where all you have to do is open your mouth and another $100 million falls out plus we're the best at what we do.

 

[OldBlackDog]

You actually read read this quote ?
It says " Although Canada represents only 1.6% of the world’s greenhouse gas emissions."

BC is what percentge of this?

All this arguing for not even a percentage?

All this and scientists still do not know if greenhouse gasses are a problem.
Just the "prophets" think they know and so far they do not.

Ah yes more hide the pea under the shuffle cup and ask me to pick again.
If you waiting for me to give you a free pass then your dealing with the wrong guy.


http://www4.unfccc.int/submissions/INDC/Published Documents/Canada/1/INDC - Canada - English.pdf

These are our commitments to the world.


This is how we are doing.


Clearly we are not on track in BC with the plans to increase our GHG's. Since you have taken responsibility to represent the NG industry how are you going to achieve these goals? What policy and solutions do you see to get us to these goals.

 

[triplenickel]

Your sources are suspect because the come from a right wing rags (except guardian) that are famous for it's climate change reporting and climate change denial. You want facts.... there are other sources that have more responsible reporting on those facts. Here is one that comes from the Industry and German government. It tells a different picture then that media.
http://www.unendlich-viel-energie.de...engl_final.pdf
or here
http://energytransition.de/

Did you actually read and think about the links I posted? On the solar side my links claimed 4.5% and the yours 5.7%. Hardly a significant difference but the point of the article was to show the claims in the media and various government bodies is very misleading (happens on both sides) and far from the revolution they claim and we're about to head down the same path of premature adoption. It wasn't about arguing a few percentage points, it seems you missed that though, I suspect you just dismissed the source which you then rebutted with industry info, and that's comical. The problem is many see the headline " "Germany now gets half of its energy from solar panels." and stop reading, forget about actually digging into it, they won't finish the article.

 

[Tugcapitan]

Maybe you guys should start a new thread or something.

 

[triplenickel]

Maybe you guys should start a new thread or something.

No need, I'm done.

 

[GLG]

You actually read read this quote ?
It says " Although Canada represents only 1.6% of the world’s greenhouse gas emissions."

BC is what percentge of this?

All this arguing for not even a percentage?

All this and scientists still do not know if greenhouse gasses are a problem.
Just the "prophets" think they know and so far they do not.

Yes OBD it's called taking responsibility for our actions.
It's what we do when we grow up.
Thanks for pointing that out and helping us with our moral compass.

 

[OldBlackDog]

Go hard, to bad that you are not correct.
18 years and 8 months with no warming.
No rise in the oceans like you promised us.
The list of doom and gloom you said was going to happen, has not.
Keep drinking that stuff.

Yes OBD it's called taking responsibility for our actions.
It's what we do when we grow up.
Thanks for pointing that out and helping us with our moral compass.

 

[GLG]

OBD I'm not interested in debating your Global Hoax Theory.
Admin has asked us not to go there.

 

[agentaqua]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...-near-prince-rupert-prompts-changes-1.3229607
Amakusa Island coal ship grounding near Prince Rupert prompts changes

 

[bee15]

coal covered seabirds all over the island soon sinking inevitable

 

[GLG]

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/marine/2014/M14P0150/M14P0150.asp

List of errors
Pilot error due to the system.
Risking ships and crew on paper charts when technology is not mandatory.

 

[ziggy]

Don't agree with the paper chart comment. This from CHS site.

Most vessels of any kind in Canada have an obligation to carry and use official charts and publications and to keep them up to date. The chart carriage requirements are listed in the Charts and Nautical Publications Regulations, 1995 of the Canada Shipping Act.

CHS paper charts meet the requirements of the chart carriage regulations. CHS digital charts meet the requirements of the chart carriage regulations under certain circumstances. CHS Electronic Navigational Charts (ENCs) meet the requirements provided they are used with an Electronic Chart Display and Information System (ECDIS). CHS raster charts meet the requirements only if paper charts are carried and used as a backup.

For further information on which charts meet the official requirements, please see our CHS Official Products and CHS Licensed Manufacturers.