Oil analysis

Read my post above, run the engine at high rpm for a few minutes every time out if you can. Problem has basically disappeared for my new 4.2L F250 after a couple years. Keep an eye on the oil and change if it gets too diluted. Problem should go away after a while. Marked fuel and poor ring seating...
 
Alright @ryanb , thanks for the counselling session lol. Dealer suggested ring free too so I have a bit of that in the fuel. You still use marked fuel and just monitor then? Just looking at trips where the only option is Fuel dock gas.
 
I would occasionally have an oil making problem in my Yamaha f225’s I solved it by installing slightly hotter thermostats available from Suzuki and doing a double dose ring free shock treatment just prior to an oil change.
 
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound preachy, I thought you might have missed my post. I never stopped using marked for the majority of my fills. I don't think the ring free will help your rings seat, it's a deposit and fuel system cleaner save your money on that.
 
Ya I thought about changing thermostats as well, will just lean into the throttle for now and monitor it
 
shuter said:
@Old Fisher. How did this resolve? I got a brand new F250 doing the same thing.
Click to expand...

Shuter,
The problem with my F300 making oil has stopped. After doing lots of research I determined that this problem, common to many four stroke outboards, is due to poor ring seating because the engines run too cold. In many areas of the world, where the waters are warmer, it's less of a problem but here, where we run in cold water, poor ring seating is often a problem. It has nothing to do with marked fuel vs unmarked. I spoke with 3 different Yamaha dealers and service managers and was fed baloney and ignorance. I tried to contact a Yamaha Canada Tech rep and was told that I might be able to find a solution to my problem by "doing a search on the Internet"!
No, I'm not kidding! Then I spoke with a Suzuki tech guy who told me that they run warmer thermostats in their four stroke motors (170F vs 140 in Yami). I bought and installed the Suzuki thermostats, ran the motor a bit harder than normal for an hour or so, and the engine stopped making oil. At that time the engine had 110 hours and I thought there was little chance of seating the rings after all that time. I was wrong. My motor now has about 215 hours and the oil level has been perfect. And yes I do use marked fuel. I recommend switching to warmer thermostats.
 
@Old Fisher.
Unreal, Ive basically had the exact same experience. Good for you for finding a work around/solution. How does your motor do for temp at WOT now?
 
shuter said:
@Old Fisher.
Unreal, Ive basically had the exact same experience. Good for you for finding a work around/solution. How does your motor do for temp at WOT now?
Click to expand...

It seems to run at the same temperature (although I seldom run at WOT). Theoretically it should do this because once the thermostats are fully open there is no temperature control. The thermostats just maintain a minimum temperature in the motor and the Yami thermostats (140F) allow the motor to run cold when it's not working real hard, piston rings don't expand efficiently and thus the problem. Engines are "happier" at temps of 190+ but outboard manufacturers are aware that salt will precipitate out at higher temps so they run the engines cool. But to get proper ring seat you have to run warmer thermostats or run the engine hard to build heat.
The most disappointing part of all this is that the manufacturer knows all this but instead of being honest about it, they play dumb, downplay it, or outright lie. I was told that I probably just misread the oil level on the dipstick (repeatedly) despite the fact that I used to build engines and don't feel challenged by the intricacies of reading a dipstick. I was also told that gasoline in the crankcase was no big deal. Dilution of your crankcase lubricating oil by a solvent is definitely a big deal!
Anyways, I hope that you can solve your "making oil " problem. Just don't depend on Yamaha for any help. I'd also suggest to do as I did - keep notes of all your oil level readings and oil changes, hourly use, oil analysis results etc. It may help if you ever had to have a pissing match with Yamaha.
 
most yamis do that , install Suzuki thermostats, motor runs a little hotter and you will be all good , made that change over 500 hours ago, not one issue
 
Old Fisher said:
It seems to run at the same temperature (although I seldom run at WOT). Theoretically it should do this because once the thermostats are fully open there is no temperature control. The thermostats just maintain a minimum temperature in the motor and the Yami thermostats (140F) allow the motor to run cold when it's not working real hard, piston rings don't expand efficiently and thus the problem. Engines are "happier" at temps of 190+ but outboard manufacturers are aware that salt will precipitate out at higher temps so they run the engines cool. But to get proper ring seat you have to run warmer thermostats or run the engine hard to build heat.
The most disappointing part of all this is that the manufacturer knows all this but instead of being honest about it, they play dumb, downplay it, or outright lie. I was told that I probably just misread the oil level on the dipstick (repeatedly) despite the fact that I used to build engines and don't feel challenged by the intricacies of reading a dipstick. I was also told that gasoline in the crankcase was no big deal. Dilution of your crankcase lubricating oil by a solvent is definitely a big deal!
Anyways, I hope that you can solve your "making oil " problem. Just don't depend on Yamaha for any help. I'd also suggest to do as I did - keep notes of all your oil level readings and oil changes, hourly use, oil analysis results etc. It may help if you ever had to have a pissing match with Yamaha.
Click to expand...

that’s a good idea thanks. I’m at 80 hrs now, and hopefully with a few changes will avoid the pissing match. Thanks again for your help
 
One other thing. It's a good idea to stick with using a good marine engine oil (I think it's called TC-W grade) because it supposedly will still provide reasonably good lubrication even when there is some fuel dilution (up to about 7%) unlike cheaper automotive oils.
 
I’m still in the scheduled service (20 hrs, 100 hrs) phase so have been buying and using the Yamaha oil/filters etc. So far this has been the only thing the dealerships have recommended to keep the warranty intact.
 
There is some decent literature out there on “hard” break-ins vs the “manufactures recommended procedure”. I have rebuilt quite a few different motors over the years ranging from lawnmowers, dirtbikes ( 2 stroke and 4 stroke), quads, I/O marine engine, and my 600+hp 300zx TT. Every one of those engines I broke in like I stole it and they have never missed a beat. You have such a short window to properly seat the rings before it’s too late and cylinder walls are glazed. Essentially, keep the engine above idle rpm right out of the gate, once it’s warm, load the engine significantly, alerting the RPMs constantly.
 
Buckethead905 said:
There is some decent literature out there on “hard” break-ins vs the “manufactures recommended procedure”. I have rebuilt quite a few different motors over the years ranging from lawnmowers, dirtbikes ( 2 stroke and 4 stroke), quads, I/O marine engine, and my 600+hp 300zx TT. Every one of those engines I broke in like I stole it and they have never missed a beat. You have such a short window to properly seat the rings before it’s too late and cylinder walls are glazed. Essentially, keep the engine above idle rpm right out of the gate, once it’s warm, load the engine significantly, alerting the RPMs constantly.
Click to expand...

right. Hopefully 80 hrs in after breaking it in exactly to the ‘manufacturers specs’, I’m not too late to do it ‘properly’... brutal.
 
I didn't get my making oil under control until after about 120 hours. I'm at 350 now, no making oil, on the original t-stat. YMMV.
 
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