New chinook regs for early fraser river run!!!

So would you guys rather have zero retention ?
because it ain't gonna change how DFO mismanage our area.
They need to be fired !
in any accountable organization, the clowns would have been sent packing
years ago.
 
Agreed PRO anyone who thinks well its ok we get to fish WTF ???? this is total BS and eceryone should be madder than a heated up hornet IT HAS NOTHING to do about conservation in fact even more fish will die now. Call it what you want but the FN nets are in now getting them wheres there reduction ZIP some on here just dont get it......

Wolf

that said, at least DFO are making a proposal to go at the natives directly, looking for a 45% cutback in the river. It's the realization that Nanaimo are currently taking hogs without restriction that irks me even more at this point!
 
I agree that the entire Island should have this 85cm restriction in place (except inside coastal inlets) until July 20th. Also the FN guys should be restricted at the very least to using gill nets with a small enough mesh size so as to not take larger fish as well. They should be targeting 3 year old teenagers. Seems only reasonable to me and would give me hope that things will would improve.
 
So would you guys rather have zero retention ?
because it ain't gonna change how DFO mismanage our area.
They need to be fired !
in any accountable organization, the clowns would have been sent packing
years ago.

Not quite sure about what you are are saying here. I firmly believe WE the people CAN change how DFO mismanages our area. If we feel we can't then we are crazy to do anything else but give up right now.

We can bring change by uniting like minded and action orientated people who are willing to do something to change this corrupt and incompetant mismanagement of our public fisheries. Ultimately, it is not the DFO staff that need to be sent packing but rather it is the DFO executive and the politicians that need to be sent packing. We can only do this by being politically active and not keep voting the same political parties (i.e. conservatives and liberals - not much difference between them nowadays) and expecting different results. If you vote the same, you will get more of the same - pretty simple!

Second, we need to make protecting our public salmon fihsery a high profile and important political issue that we force each political party to take a position on and hold them accountavble to follow through on that position. We can make a change and we must make a change. I think you and I and many others all know this.
 
Funny how the renfrew crowd is very quite on this. It is fish first in my opinion if we have to have restrictions coast wide to get the runs be then lets do it!
Yep and they're having a fathers day derby to celebrate!
 

"Not quite sure about what you are are saying here. I firmly believe WE the people CAN change how DFO mismanages our area."


I would like to think so, but with all the hard work that has been done we have seen no change
other than increased restrictions.
The bottom line is DFO are not accountable to us.
they can do whatever they want.
Without a complete restructure , we will likely bumble on like this.
JMHO of course :eek:
 
I hear what you are saying Scott. I am just completely fed up with the DFO and the Harper govt. I am no longer going to accept their incompentence, arrogance and corruption. I and other like minded folks are going to start to peacefully, legally and intelligently try to change things to improve this very sad situation we face on SVI.
 
Demanding a shut-down in the Georgia Strait will help solving the problem just as little as shutting down JDF. The sport take is really insignificant. If it came down to the few fish sport takes, it would be too late to save those stocks anyway. It's an all political game. DFO needs to show that they have done something so they choose the easiest target knowing very well that this will do nothing. And they know they will get away with it. Once the fish are gone just like in Brentwood, the Coho bonanza in Georgia Strait, the ET Frasers in JDF and other stocks in many other areas - oh well, it was unfavourable ocean conditions, climate change and we tried our best. Mark my words.
 
Funny how the renfrew crowd is very quite on this. It is fish first in my opinion if we have to have restrictions coast wide to get the runs be then lets do it!

The Renfrew crowd would happily take a cutback if it was shown we had a damn impact on anything. If the cuts are to allow more FN gillnets to catch the fish in the fraser, forget it.

If DFO can come to a meeting prepared to answer some questions rather then "We don't know, so we are going to close it", then I suspect everyone will fight tooth and nail.

Remember, the commercial fleet that used to take over 500,000 pieces was dismantled in the 90's. Still no fish, we no whave a rec fleet that takes 60,000-80,000 as explained by the DFO biologist two years ago. Still no fish? So coastwide, total catch is down %80. Still no fish? Hmmm, let's look at fish farms and Fraser River gillnets... The total take of these fish from the JDF fishery is something like %5, which is less then the MARGIN OF ERROR. Like any slothy animal, DFO will go for the easiest target, we do not have a high paid lobby, nor the constitutional right to pursue traditional fisheries in a 25' North River Jetboat and monofillament gillnets... Nor the right to ceremonial trade of the fish out of traditional white vans on the side of the highway..

It gets back to DFO and the credability of their findings. Gagging Biologists? Not bringing numbers to the table? Ignoring the mandate? Coming up with pet projects that only have to perform for a 4 year term?

The Nitinat and San Juan are prime examples of of rivers that are effectivley managed, and provide excellent fishing opportunities.. You of all people know this.
 
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I agree that the entire Island should have this 85cm restriction in place (except inside coastal inlets) until July 20th.

An Island-Wide Shutdown and/or size restriction would have no significant effect for this particular stock. While a few ("few" being the operative word) are intercepted in the areas currently under this imposed restriction, the same is not true of the vast majority of the WCVI. I REALLY DO FEEL for those this impacts, but spreading the pain as it were would have no positive outcome as far as reducing impacts on that stock are concerned (and I freely admit what is being done now will likely have a negligible effect as well).

... If it came down to the few fish sport takes, it would be too late to save those stocks anyway. It's an all political game. DFO needs to show that they have done something so they choose the easiest target knowing very well that this will do nothing. And they know they will get away with it...

Bang-On Chris. Unfortunately the ONLY action the current mismanagement entity is willing to take is to reduce the impact of those already recognized as quite limited in that impact - the recreational sector. No way in Hell they are going to address the REAL, Ongoing, and Largest Impact group in any way shape or form. The call for a 45% reduction noted on the Forum is simply smoke & mirrors IMHO. Methinks little will be realized as a consequence.

Very Much SUCKS! Wish I had the answer, but beyond dismantling The Dino at the top end and starting over with a science based approach that can directly "manage" ALL involved, methinks the situation will get much worse over the coming years...

And that is nothing to cheer about... :(
Nog
 
It's an all political game

When we voted in a Back Bencher in Ottawa,we should have known we would have no say. The Juan De Fuca riding is being punished. I have no faith in DFO any more. I will still fish my spots. Come on fishers lets get out there and fish.
 
The main reason I don't think a coastwide restriction would help is:

A) The recreational sector takes a pittance of these fish to start with. Take the number of seals and whales on this coast, figure out what they eat, then figure in our 60,000 to 80,000 fish, and do the math.B) Most guys don't release a fish so it will live. If you touch it, net it, bang it around in the boat, it's dead.

c) Around %30 of our catch is US hatchery augmented fish.

D) You will get a coastwide reduction in the number of guys targetting fish, hence, a reduced participation in the fishery, hence, even less money dedicated to it.

It's much like have both myself and a 5 year old child in front of the nachos. The 5 year old is the rec sector, I am all of the other sectors, when someone says "Slow down and take less", which one has the biggest impact? The rec sector is a nice, easy, villified target. Cute cuddly seals, sea lions, fish farms silently sitting in an inlet, First Nations doing the ceremonial thing, they are all picturesque, and easy to paint in a positive light in the public eye. The Rec sector is an easy whipping boy. This leads to our fishery regulators taking the path of least resistance, their job benchmark doesn't appear to be based on the health of our fishery, it seems to be based on madates pulled out of thin air based on incomplete data. I am supposed to think that our rec fleet taking 60,000 to 80,000 fish coastwide is signifigant?

All DFO has been able to do is say "I don't know".

When asked:

Are these fishing making it out of the Fraser River: DFO: We don't know, we don't study that.

What happens to these fish when they migrate out to the sea. DFO: We don't know, we don't study that.

What happens to these fish when they hit WCVI, jump over Renfrew to JDF, then jump over Sidney to the Fraser River? : DFO: The recreational sector takes %5 of these fish.


Hmm... Sounds like good math to me. It's important to look at the big picture, in the 90's, the fleet was cut from one that took 500,000 pieces per year to less then 100,000 . If that's not working, take a look at some other fairly obvious, but politically uggly targets.
 
as i see it its not the returning mature chinnooks that are in trouble its with the fingerlings and 2 or 3 pounders that the trouble lies. ten or fifteen years ago when fishing off port hardy i use to catch and release many small springs each time we went out last few years very few encounterd only a few soakers are hooked this started with proliferation of open pen salmon farms
 
... Nog can you please explain to me how a coastwide restriction would not help, I am a little confused, where are these fish coming from then?? I am inclined to agree with Profisher I mean here is a guy who has been at it since most of us were in diapers (not meaning you are and ole Geezer there pro :)) but he is willing to reel it in for the short term for long term gain.

While I do appreciate Profisher's situation, and subsequent decision to forgo fishing over this stock, I cannot concur that closing or restricting angling efforts Island-wide would be of any benefit.

For a great many years, samples in the form of head recoveries, DNA samples and more have been collected along the WCVI. I was part of that process both as an observer/technician and as a fisherman. That started in the days LastChance was referring to when Area G's quota was exponentially larger than it is today. More samples of the same have been collected from the angling community in the same area coverage. Analysis of those samples rather well indicates that there is a rather discrete timing when the stock in question is present along the WCVI. That period peaks from between mid to late March through mid April. Yes, there are "outliers" - a few that wander through a tad early, and a few that do so a tad later. "Few" being the operative word here.

Several steps have been taken to avoid interceptions of that stock during their presence offshore WCVI, including for many years now, a coast-wide shut-down of Area G through the recognized run timing. Most recreational angling activities don't generally get underway in those areas until much later in the season, by coincidence, well after the stock in question has wandered through. The results of the troll closure have been closely monitored, and that is apparently working as the occurrence of these early-timed fish in the catch have been reduced to practically zero. Similarly, the incidence of capture amongst the recreational fleet through the later months is so sporadic (often zero for many years back to back) as to be considered insignificant.

Taking the above into consideration clearly suggests that closing down fishing efforts along the WCVI to afford this particular stock increased protection would have no effect. The fish simply are not present when those fishing efforts are being conducted.

Again I note that I VERY Much feel for those who are affected. But also feel the need to point out (again) that such measures are little more than a band-aide approach to a gushing artery. As many have noted previously, this is a POLITICAL decision, driven by The Dino's need to appear to be doing something - anything - both to appease the FN's as well as public perception. FAR too little, and likely FAR too late. If they were sincere in addressing the declining population numbers, serious efforts would be underway to address pressing habitat concerns, real studies would be underway to identify measures to increase the numbers, and pointedly, the fishing efforts of the one single sector that represents the greatest impact would be curtailed. The Dino has a whole volume of reasons these focused efforts are not occurring: no money, incomplete/inconclusive data, FN "rights" and so on and so on. They also come up with a handful of suggestions as to why this stock continues to plummet, while blatantly ignoring the obvious in this regard.

Personally I see this as simply a symptom of the disease that has overtaken DFO for a great many years now. And personally I don't foresee it getting any better whatsoever under the current "management" regime. And finally I'd hazard a guess that these fish will be Long Gone before the steps required to revert to Proper Management are ever even considered, let alone implemented.

Nog
 
We've had times on ECVI in past recent years when you couldn't BUY a Chinook......or a Coho....also total Ling Cod closures.

You can only take one Ling on ECVI.......wst coast is 3
Rockfish is 1 on ECVI....west coast is 3
Chinooks are 62 cm legal on ECVI....many other west coast areas it's 45 cm

West Coast has always had it better than us.

Forgive us if we actually get a couple years where fish are showing up these days....

We also don't get the fabulous Pilchard schools over here....or anchovy....and the the fish go where the food is.

The waters are generally warmer on the inside......which fish are finicky about.

Combine that with over-fishing of Herring on the inside in recent years......and you can see why when we catch a Chinook it's a cause for celebration.
 
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herriing in gulf of georgia not in decline 90 thousand tons this spring perhaps a long time record size was small so few caught
 
The concern this year is for the 5-2 fish...5 year olds...so more than likely 30 pounds and larger. Whether you agree with DFO's plan or not (I don't) you have to admit that 30 plus pound fish heading to the Fraser are in fact becoming scarce. I don't think I got my first fish over 30 pounds last year until I went to Nootka near the end of July...not an early Fraser bound fish. The winners for the JDF Derby (in June)the last few years has been becoming a smaller fish each year. All I'm saying is that every fish over 30 pounds taken especially in PF or offshore farther up the Island is potentially going to result in us down here suffering even longer and that part of the run going in the tank for good.
The tactic of fighting DFO or venting our frustration publicly hasn't worked for us ever. I think we insist on everyone staying away from those fish...so in other words a self imposed restriction on ourselves and then pressure the natives to suck it up or show their true motives. The key to this is to get the FN guys to leave those fish alone ( I agree more fish could saved in the river than on the WCVI) we need everyone on the rec side to come together on this one...present tactics aren't doing it. Its that or wait for DFO to do something...get my point? :( How embarrassing would that be for DFO to have all of us adding restrictions to ourselves to save fish and then publicly call them out for not doing their jobs!!!
 
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i have sat on several fishery advisory boards in past herring halibut and salmon enhancment group i have some respect for some local fishery officers and boilogists but none for beurcrats in ottawa when there is a problem with declining salmon runs its not so easy to do the right things it is easy for them to restrict fishing and easy to do when the problem is a political one it doesent solve the problem but it sure saves face we have tried in the past to get rid of some of them but deputy ministers are not easily gotted rid of to change goverments wont do it but it might help most of them come from other govt divisons like a few seem to come from treasury dept and hardly know what salmon is they are experts at saving money thou whats needed is a system to get rid of them then perhaps some salmon will sllowly appear fishery is a reactive force not wanting to help only to try to fix some thing after it is broke or gone there thats my summary of the problem
 
All these points expressed are valid, some more than others. However what can "WE" really do. DFO won't listen to us...they won't put money up for SEP, they are in bed with the Farmers....all we can do is embarrass them. (the bureaucrats in Ottawa) What I described is something we can actually do on our own...we don't need them to do it. And it makes them and potentially the FN guys look really bad.
 
... yes it is a mere pittance compared to the commercial harvest ( maybe 6-7 springs a season)...

You kinda missed my point. There is NO directed "commercial" fishery on this stock. In fact steps have been taken to remove the potential of commercial interceptions, and that appears to be one of the very few actions that has been working. Unfortunately Insufficient.
Of course that ignores the ongoing in-river FSC (sic) fishery with the under-the-counter "commercial" aspect most recognize is occurring.

... The key to this is to get the FN guys to leave those fish alone ( I agree more fish could saved in the river than on the WCVI) we need everyone on the rec side to come together on this one...present tactics aren't doing it. Its that or wait for DFO to do something...get my point? :( How embarrassing would that be for DFO to have all of us adding restrictions to ourselves to save fish and then publicly call them out for not doing their jobs!!!

You are absolutely correct that under the present circumstances, everyone should be leaving this stock alone. Most significantly the FN "sector" There is absolutely NO question that their fisheries represent the largest impact. Well before any considerations were being given towards the recreational sector, and mere mumblings were barely beginning towards troll fleet restrictions, this fact was directly pointed out to DFO. Their response then was much as it is today: Political Hot-Potato, and we, as a consequence, are not prepared to do anything about it. Turning a blind eye perhaps saved someone the political deep-fry, but VERY much carried us into the situation we are in today.

I do tend to agree with you regarding embarrassing DFO, and publicly calling them to task for their complete failure to do even a sub-standard job. So, in effect, I DO "have your back" on this issue. That said, the odds of any of the 30 pound plus springs we see offshore WCVI throughout the months of late June through September have about as much chance of being a member of the stock in question as did the Nootka fish you made mention of: Astronomical. Were that to be otherwise, I do believe many, if not most, would seriously consider what you are suggesting.

I wish I had an easy answer, but alas, there simply aren't any. The problem, as I noted many times before, lies completely at the feet of DFO. And until we can somehow manage to bring that particular Beast to task, I am rather afraid this will become a reoccurring nightmare for many more stocks.

Nog
 
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