Mars Water Bomber - Sign petition to ReInstate Bomber For 5 more Years Across BC

Look guys there is fire right next to it and some people have lost property.. Tanker Base and Air crane are near right there. You can argue all day long on and on. The Mars probably will at least protect the lake and few areas of island this year... That will free up resources in province. Probably not going to go on for years..

I really want guys to stop reading what the provincial government and media spoon feeds them. Short story yes it a old plane. It can be more expensive to run..But it is not designed to be a puddle dropper that contains fires. It is to suppress fires. Its not going to be used long term.

The company has spare parts and ability to make them as issues come up and has a very well trained maintenance team and crew.

Issue aside you cant expect port alberni to go up in flames when there is this tanker right next to water source to fight it. The Mars has been refitted with all the updated electronics and the birdog that guides it fairly capable.

Coulson did lose the contact with BC government. But if you do some reading have a look at Conair exec moving over from prov government, and giving a 19k donation top liberal party. Same person worked for government and knew the ins and outs of the mars program.. Later that year contract cancelled and this document shows up.mmmm.

Anyways what is done is done. I wish I was in alberni tomorrow to hear it roar past.. Here is really great document in response to all he guys that keep copy and pasting BC website comparison. I think this out of most I have read a totally fair assessment.

http://www.alberniweather.ca/fire/MarsRebuttal.pdf
 
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SpringVelocity said:
I really want guys to stop reading what the provincial government and media spoon feeds them...
http://www.alberniweather.ca/fire/MarsRebuttal.pdf
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All you are doing is regurgitating what Wayne Coulson is feeding you, what's the difference?

I love the bombers as much as any born and raised Port Alberni kid does, they're simply phenomenal pieces of machinery. We used to go down to the dock at the cabin on Taylor arm as kids every morning and watch them do their test pass, its a thing of beauty. I have no doubt that, especially with the improvements that Coulson made, they are still capable of helping fight fires in BC. The bottom line is, one very old and very expensive plane is not going to make or break a fire season in BC. As I type this, there is approximately 300,000 hectares of forest on fire in this province spread from boarder to boarder. Although the Mars drops more water than the others, it can't fight them all. What the province needs is more of what we have, more boots on the ground, more fire bosses etc.

The people of Port Alberni will argue that if the Mars was still under contract, the Dog Mountain fire wouldn't have grown to where it is today. To them I say if the Bomber is as useful in fighting fires as you think it is, it wouldn't be on Sproat Lake to have a chance, it would be fighting one of the countless fires currently 100+ times the size of the Dog Mountain fire elsewhere in the province. The BC government isn't going to pay for the bomber to protect the Alberni Valley like private industry once did, and I certainly can't blame them for that, especially given the fact that forest fires of significance are so relatively rare in that part of the province.

The ideal scenario in my mind that would appease most everyone would be for the Alberni-Clayquat regional district to foot the bill to keep the bombers on Sproat Lake at standby permanently, then lease their use to BC, AB, WA, CAL etc. on an as needed basis to fight fires. For that to happen, Wayne would need to be really generous and the residents of Port Alberni would need to accept a tax hike, neither of which I would hold my breath for...
 
harper44 said:
All you are doing is regurgitating what Wayne Coulson is feeding you, what's the difference?

I love the bombers as much as any born and raised Port Alberni kid does, they're simply phenomenal pieces of machinery. We used to go down to the dock at the cabin on Taylor arm as kids every morning and watch them do their test pass, its a thing of beauty. I have no doubt that, especially with the improvements that Coulson made, they are still capable of helping fight fires in BC. The bottom line is, one very old and very expensive plane is not going to make or break a fire season in BC. As I type this, there is approximately 300,000 hectares of forest on fire in this province spread from boarder to boarder. Although the Mars drops more water than the others, it can't fight them all. What the province needs is more of what we have, more boots on the ground, more fire bosses etc.

The people of Port Alberni will argue that if the Mars was still under contract, the Dog Mountain fire wouldn't have grown to where it is today. To them I say if the Bomber is as useful in fighting fires as you think it is, it wouldn't be on Sproat Lake to have a chance, it would be fighting one of the countless fires currently 100+ times the size of the Dog Mountain fire elsewhere in the province. The BC government isn't going to pay for the bomber to protect the Alberni Valley like private industry once did, and I certainly can't blame them for that, especially given the fact that forest fires of significance are so relatively rare in that part of the province.

The ideal scenario in my mind that would appease most everyone would be for the Alberni-Clayquat regional district to foot the bill to keep the bombers on Sproat Lake at standby permanently, then lease their use to BC, AB, WA, CAL etc. on an as needed basis to fight fires. For that to happen, Wayne would need to be really generous and the residents of Port Alberni would need to accept a tax hike, neither of which I would hold my breath for...
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At this point its going up in the air hopefully to help Alberni residents so I think that is a reality. What happens next anyone's guess.

BTW those comments in that document are not mine but our spot on. The bomber is just a tool used with a lot of different aircraft...I just think it should be used in times of real emergencies... If you look around I dont think there is a choice. Dog mountain fire is 96 hectares with all these aircraft going at it. That is pretty scary the Martin can make significant headway if she can fly on Thursday.. Its probably being called back to defend the lake probably not all of BC. Hard to say what will happen. I feel bad for Sproat lake residents again this was caused by someone being stupid. Lets also hope they dont get more wind this afternoon, and the aircraft can get in the air...

http://www.albernivalleynews.com/news/311801931.html

Is alberni town smokey as hell? Anyone have pics to share?
 
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I'm happy to hear that the Mars will go to work on a fire where it can be effective, although I think emotional public response has overridden policy and planning. Fires don't necessarily spring up conveniently close to one of the 113 large lakes in BC where Mars can operate, nor do they usually care to wait a day or two whilst Mars is deployed there. Wayne Coulson's rebuttal document said there are plenty of fires where Mars can be of use, and this is true, but he chooses to ignore that today's BC forest fire fighting strategy solely employs land based aircraft and is based on a doctrine of rapid initial attack followed by containment using retardant. This strategy has been developed over many years and his aircraft can't drop retardant and has neither the speed nor the maneuverability needed for rapid attack. This need is better met by the dozens of small aircraft and helicopters dispersed all over the province ready to go at short notice and hit new fires fast. The Mars is just one aircraft and sadly there are few occasions when the circumstances make it the right tool for the job.

Was a fire attack on Okanagan Lake this morning above Naramata. Was actioned by four single engine floatplanes, looked like old Pipers, cycle time was about 4 minutes. They were on station for less than hour. Job done I presume.
 
Like the Mars or hate it ...it is 5km from Dog Mountain.. And not very far from The Squamish coast... I am sure it can be cost effective for these two fires if nothing else....


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Yes, I will be glad to see it in the air and it will definitely help the Dog Mountain fire, no doubt about that! My comment about it not having a huge impact was with regards to a 5 year contract in BC. Not with this particular incident, obviously, every piece of equipment available will help, and with the bomber sitting adjacent to the fire, it makes sense to use it.

We have been so lucky in the valley over the last 15+ years that I can remember off the top of my head not having any major fires. Sometimes people forget to take fire bans and whatnot seriously, hopefully this very visible incident leaves a lasting image in peoples minds of just what can happen when you don't heed the warnings and take extra precautions in the bush in the dry season. I hope that once this fire is under control, the community can focus its attention on fire prevention and awareness and not on second guessing fire experts decisions to use or not use one of many tools at its disposal.
 
Idle question in a rare moment of spare time... is there actually a shortage of aircraft to fight the fire near Port Alberni? The ministry keeps pretty tightlipped about this stuff, they will say how many pieces of ground equipment and aircraft and crew members, but we'd be unlikely to hear if the fire boss was asking for more aircraft or aircraft of a different type but not getting them. I have no knowledge of the terrain and any limitations it may impose in the specific case, but that is what dictates what aircraft - if any - are used.
 
sly_karma said:
Idle question in a rare moment of spare time... is there actually a shortage of aircraft to fight the fire near Port Alberni? The ministry keeps pretty tightlipped about this stuff, they will say how many pieces of ground equipment and aircraft and crew members, but we'd be unlikely to hear if the fire boss was asking for more aircraft or aircraft of a different type but not getting them. I have no knowledge of the terrain and any limitations it may impose in the specific case, but that is what dictates what aircraft - if any - are used.
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I am unsure, because, as you say, they don't really tell you that, just what they have deployed. But due to the fact that they have now readied the Mars bomber, I would assume that they are either short aircraft due to the extremely high activity throughout the province, or could otherwise better utilize current aircraft on other fires. Again, the Dog Mountain fire is not big (relative term), nor does it have a substantial urban interface at the moment. Could be a case that they would rather not send another aircraft to Dog Mountain that could be deployed elsehwere, with the Mars sitting 5km away.
 
The one thing everyone seems to miss is that from the clip I saw last night-Mr Coulson is looking for a 5 year deal. Lots of people want to see the Mars fly-I love em-as an old aircraft but!! there are better ways to spend the money. What the people of Alberni forget is that if the Mars had been under contract right now it is doubtful if it would be sitting at Sproat lake but would have been deployed into the interior. Love to see the Mars fly but not for that amount of money and not for a 5 year contract! If we need more aircraft-so be it spend and get them but don't let nostalgia be the criteria.
 
Agree with Spring Fever. Feeling a bit jealous that I won't see the old bird fly this week, but a five year deal doesn't make sense. Mr Coulson is banging on the door demanding the province change its carefully crafted firefighting doctrine to allow his investment to continue making profit. However we are sitting on what will likely be a record year for fires and there should be places where the Mars can be used. An as-needed arrangement makes sense rather than trying to fit the Mars into a system not designed for it. Remember the province offered the same deal last year and Coulson did not accept.
 
timber west should pay to fight its own fires they keep the public out and don't pay taxes for fire fighting
 
using mars bombers is like using a peetz reel and fiberglass rod. it will work in a pinch but there is much better equipment out there.
 
What many folks are forgetting is we are contributing to the forest fire problem by putting the fires out.
Its a cycle of life and Natures way is to regularly burn off the old, dying, and diseased plants so that newer and healthier plants can grow. It is why the pine beetles have gotten out of control.
By putting out the fires we just let the fuel load keep building and then we have fire storms like Okanagan Mountain Park in 2003.

The forests in BC have managed themselves just fine for the last billion years.

Having said that, yes we need fire fighting resources to protect people and property but we also need to have controlled burns and maybe just let some fires go out on their own
 
They worked real good during the Taylor River Fire (late 60's......Taylor Arm west side....Sproat Lake...Port Alberni).

That fire burned half of Taylor Arm on one side.

The smoke in Port Alberni at the time would burn your eyes and throat it was that bad.

The bombers proved their case on that one.

All it takes is a good breeze on Dog Mountain and we'll be watching history repeat itself......
 
the mars dropped right over my head at pedder bay a few years back an i barely got wet, it was about 300 feet up
 
Sir Reel said:
What many folks are forgetting is we are contributing to the forest fire problem by putting the fires out.
Its a cycle of life and Natures way is to regularly burn off the old, dying, and diseased plants so that newer and healthier plants can grow. It is why the pine beetles have gotten out of control.
By putting out the fires we just let the fuel load keep building and then we have fire storms like Okanagan Mountain Park in 2003.

The forests in BC have managed themselves just fine for the last billion years.

Having said that, yes we need fire fighting resources to protect people and property but we also need to have controlled burns and maybe just let some fires go out on their own
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There's some truth in that SR, but things are more nuanced these days in response to those concerns. There has been a shift toward containment of fires rather than direct suppression with water, although if homes are threatened it's anything goes. What you see more of these days is air tankers and heavy equipment combining to create fire breaks well away from the flame front where crews can work more safely. It's true that we mostly stop small lightning caused fires from growing more than a few metres, but the human caused fires balance that out to some degree. That is also one of the reasons why clear cutting is allowed by the ministry - they usually require complete removal of all trees, including the older 'degenerate' trees that represent little commercial value but substantial fuel load.
 
eroyd said:
And if it crashes it will be Christy Clarks fault won't it? Too bad there isn't more AT-802 crews around twiddling their thumbs.
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Yea your right we better leave it on the ground then. Wouldn't want to blame anything on Christy and her pals they always get it right. She should get the public ombudsman on it to get to the truth.lol When its too late money won't be looked at as a reasonable excuse not to use all the tools in your tool box. Just ask British Petroleum and crew how taking short cuts and saving money worked out for them.
 
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