Mars Water Bomber - Sign petition to ReInstate Bomber For 5 more Years Across BC

[VmUDjCDvFkM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmUDjCDvFkM

Not to add to the debate but this is a shot of pre-flight check....Thought it was cool to check out...
 
Another cool one on the Mexico fire back a ways. With support Sikorsky using infrared...

[aGwE14eDTwI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGwE14eDTwI
 
Lol,, I like this one you nailed it.. Funny thing is it's usually those that complain the most that couldn't manage a night shift at a Mcdonalds never mind a government. Yet they sure are quick to make up innuendos and lies about those that do lead..

Oh well,, hope we get rain soon in all our provinces as this is one bad year.

Funny thing is it used to be "the buck stops at the bosses door" but the ethical bar is so low nowadays pretty much anything goes. Managing a night shift at Mcdonalds would require organizational skills, interpersonal skills, prioritizing skills, customer service skills and budgetary skills to name a few all of which would probably make them a better candidate than some of the people running the government right now. As for "innuendos and lies" that is what the Liberal Government did when they told us the Roderick MacIsaac and crew Health Care Firings were under Police Investigation when they were not. It cries for a Public Inquiry. And one more thing about the Mars Water Bomber and its cost "Liars can figure and figures can lie" but the Mars Water Bomber can put a lot of water on a fire in one shot.
 
Retardant and foam aren't the same thing. Foam is a coagulant that helps prevent water from atomising and evaporating as it falls from the aircraft. Retardant is the red stuff dropped ahead of and alongside the fire to help form fire breaks to contain the fire. The aircraft that use it are known as air tankers, and BC now has a carefully organised network of air tanker bases all over the province with large supplies on hand for operations. The reason only 4 Air Bosses are on contract is because the strategy has changed away from direct water drops on the flames to containment of the fire using retardant and heavy equipment. (Direct water is used for initial rapid attack ops though). There are times when direct suppression is used but it's not as common as it used to be. Retardant drops are usually a bit away from the smoke so a little safer for flight crews, and direct water drops on flame front means ground crew on foot has to clear back from the area, especially with the 25 tons that the Mars dumps. It's easy to see that four smaller, faster aircraft are more versatile than one big slow one.

Yes govt puts out a lot of mumbo jumbo but you can't deny that there are some very smart people working in the professional management areas. The political aspect is messy and confusing, but the full time upper level staff are for the most part highly educated folks who have worked hard to get where they are. Most of them could pull down a good bit more in private sector if similar positions existed. I've done a few contracts with govt and Interior Health and been impressed with the professionalism and knowledge I've encountered. I'd say our province's well respected firefighting capabilities are largely despite the political leadership rather than because of it. Just look at the passing parade of forest ministers in the past 15 years, everyone's had a go.
 
This is a fishing forum. Why are we talking politics. The weekend is here, I plan on heading out both days . Wish me luck.


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looked good in the air today we'll we were sock fishing....:)
 

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My comment was not about a five year deal with the Mars but how they budget for this fire season. My understanding is they had a budget of 63 million. Clearly they are in denial with history. I expect better from our leaders .......

http://bcwildfire.ca/history/average.htm

The number of wildfires that occur on average every year in British Columbia is usually given as 2,000, with half caused by people and half caused by lightning. Because this is an average, it is different every year, and therefore this generalization is never totally accurate.
The current 10-year average, taken from 2004 to 2013, is 1,847 fires, 38.5% (or 712) caused by people and 61.5% (or 1135) caused by lightning.
The following table shows the number and percentage of people and lightning-caused fires for last year and the 10 preceeding years.
YearTotal FiresTotal HectaresTotal Cost (millions)Average Hectares
per Fire
People-CausedLightning-Caused
20141484369,169$297.9248.8664(44.8%)819(55.2%)
2013186118,298$122.29.8564(30.3%)1297(69.7%)
20121649102,122$133.661.9708(42.9%)941(57.1%)
201165312,604$53.519.3444(68%)209(32%)
20101672337,149$212.2201.6680(40.7%)992(59.3%)
20093064247,419$382.180.8881(28.8%)2183(71.2%)
2008202313,240$82.16.5848(41.9%)1175(58.1%)
2007160629,440$98.818.3687(42.8%)919(57.2%)
20062570139,265$159.054.21034(40.2%)1536(59.8%)
200597634,588$47.235.4591(60.6%)385(39.4%)
20042394220,518$164.692.1681(28.4%)1713(71.6%)
Average *1847115,464$145.558.0710.139.0%1106.361.0%

<colgroup><col><col span="8" align="right"></colgroup><tbody>
</tbody>
* The average does not include the most recent year.
Figures for the most recent fire season are preliminary estimates.

Then we agree, no long term contract, just an as needed year to year, season to season. Too bad that didn't appear to be an option
 
Then we agree, no long term contract, just an as needed year to year, season to season. Too bad that didn't appear to be an option

It's not an option because it's not economically viable for Coulson. A lot of overhead to keep that plane at the ready to maybe get paid.


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I'm not taking any position on the five year contract as I'm not well enough informed on all the details of the contract. I am pointing out the fact that our political leaders have their heads in the sand when it comes to the budget on what it costs to fight fires in this province. Therefore if they are disingenuous with that then perhaps there are things about the contract that are from same play book. It seems to me that they are corrupt right to the core.

This years budget 63 million, ten year running average 145.5 million.
Last year ... just under 300 million and warnings from science that we would have a bad year.

I do see where the people, that get the work done, have a plan that has been thought out and needs the resources to make it happen. BC has been the world leader on forest fire management. Well that might have been in the past but if they don't have the tools or the budget then it's just smoke and mirrors.
http://bcwildfire.ca/Prevention/PrescribedFire/docs/BCWFMS.pdf

Seems we are down one Fire Boss aircraft. pilot is a ok
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...r-crashes-fighting-puntzi-lake-fire-1.3147551

My other position was why only 4 Fire Boss aircraft when clearly it should be 8.
 
DOG MOUNTAIN FIREFIGHTER COMMENTS -
Here's some truth from the front lines.This is why the MARS was NOT used on the Dog Mountain fire. This is why we should trust the professionals that are trained and have proper experience to do their jobs. Don't believe the HYPE! Be proud, sure, but not foolhardy and uninformed:

"I have spent the past 4 days working on this fire in an Initial Attack capacity, assisting in the coordination of ground operations. Crews have literally been working around the clock since the fire started in an effort to protect the cabins and homes on the lake shore. Given the fire activity and extremely difficult terrain, it's an incredible accomplishment that only one structure was lost (an outlying cabin which had been reportedly unoccupied for several years).
From the perspective of the crews and staff working hard on this fire, I'd like to share what is, for me, the most frustrating part of the last 4 days: all of the negative, uninformed, and ignorant comments on this page (and from many people who've spotted my uniform and come to give me their opinion) regarding the use of the Martin Mars.
I understand that the Mars has been used successfully in the past, and that for many, it is an icon of wildfire suppression in British Columbia. However, the Martin Mars will not "put the fire out" as many seem to think it will, nor will it aid ground crews in accomplishing their objectives on Dog Mountain. What it WOULD do in this situation is further destabilize the already highly unstable slopes comprised largely of burnt trees and dislodged boulders (many of which have already come down), creating a significant hazard for ground crews who have been working to protect the cabins and structures at the bottom of these slopes. Further, it would have dominated the airspace over the fire, preventing the helicopters from making the precise and strategically effective bucket drops in the specific areas that were threatening to compromise our control lines above the cabins.
Due to the lack of escape routes and safety zones in the area where the fire has been burning for the last 2 days (away from the cabins) it is unsafe for ground crews to directly action the fire. Therefore, the Mars would not be effective here either, as aircraft do not "put out the fire", rather, they reduce fire activity and buy time for ground crews to safely establish control lines from which to contain and action the fire.
That is why the strategy of controlled burning is being used on this fire. By utilizing a natural pinch point (a safe distance away from the fire) to construct a heavily reinforced control line, crews are able to safely burn off the fuels that lie directly in the path of the fire, creating a situation where the controlled burn is directed and drawn towards the head of the fire. When the 2 fires meet, the fuels in the wake of each fire will have been consumed, and the fire cannot continue to spread as there is no more fuel left to burn. This is what is meant by "fighting fire with fire".
The strategies used to manage fires are the result of extensive training and a wealth of experience possessed by personnel of the B.C. Wildfire Service. All options are thoroughly explored and considered before any important tactical decisions are made.
So please, if you want to support us and help us do our job, then trust we are doing everything we can to make the best possible decisions about how to fight wildfires, including what types of resources we use. Negative, inflammatory comments about the Martin Mars only serve to frustrate those who are working hard to protect our forests and communities, as well as detract from the hard-earned accomplishments that we should be celebrating."
*************************
*disclaimer*
I am not a spokesperson for the B.C. Wildfire Service - just one of many wildfire fighters who is passionate about what they do.
*************************"
 
From Aberni News 90% contained:

"We have contained it now at 90 per cent," said Dupont. "The two staged ignitions we did the last two days worked really well. We got the results we wanted."

The controlled burns were meant to deprive the blaze of the fuel it needed to spread.

"They wanted to burn off all the understory and reach down from the fire to the shore."

There were two areas the the Wildfire Service was most concerned about.

"The ithmus and then another area that bordered the shore where there were islands and cabins nearby. So they got those two spots."

However, work on the fire will continue and the area is still dangerous.

"The slopes are still very unstable.

There are 31 firefighters on the blaze and CFC is calling in more experts.

"We're hoping to have geomorphologists go in tomorrow. We're hoping they can do an assessment on the slope stability so they can possibly get trees removed," said Dupont. "A soil specialist will have to come in and make sure that the cabins will no longer be under threat from rolling debris."

While many trees have been charred by the blaze, Dupont said that certain species should be able to recover from the fire.

"Certain species have different mortality rates. Coastal Douglas fir have a really good defense against fires versus other trees that have a thinner bark don't. It's the depth of the bark and the age of the tree."

With the fire close to contained, there's good news on the air quality front.

"The smoke should be about 20 per cent of what it used to be within a day or two," said Dupont. "It of course depends on the winds."

The Dog Mountain fire has been reduced to just hot spots now, Dupont said.

"If we get cooler temperatures and no wind it probably within a week should have all the hot spots extinguished," she said, adding that this fire is no longer a priority if something else flares up in a different location.

"If we have crews in there putting out hot spots and there's really no threat of forest fire anymore and something else comes up, say down the Inlet or somewhere, then we might pull them off. You have to prioritize constantly."

Alberni Valley fire Chiefs are reminding residents that even with this fire mostly contained, the Valley remains at an extreme fire hazard rating. All open burning (including fireworks and campfires) is banned throughout the entire province. This ban includes the usually excluded fog zone. Be vigilant; a carelessly tossed cigarette or sparks from an ATV are enough to cause a new fire.

If you see a forest fire, call 1-800-663-5555 FREE (*5555 on your cellphone).

For information on the wildfire situation, visit www.bcwildfire.ca. For air quality information, visit www.bcairquality.ca.

reporter@albernivalleynews.com

twitter.com/alberninew
 
The original Dog Mountain fire wasn't all that big but it progressed, despite the non-Mars efforts with groundcrews and what not.

Had the Mars been able to go up on the very first day, when other systems weren't really in place and no allowances had to be made...I'm sure it would have nullified it pretty quick.

If a Mars dumping the amount of the water they do "doesn't put out fires'.........then what good does a helicopter with a rather small bucket of water do?.
 
The original Dog Mountain fire wasn't all that big but it progressed, despite the non-Mars efforts with groundcrews and what not.

Had the Mars been able to go up on the very first day, when other systems weren't really in place and no allowances had to be made...I'm sure it would have nullified it pretty quick.

If a Mars dumping the amount of the water they do "doesn't put out fires'.........then what good does a helicopter with a rather small bucket of water do?.

I read that the force of the Mars bomber would have toppled terrain that would have destroyed the very cabins and residences they were trying to protect it was not practical for dog mountain.

I also Have read that while it is capable of dropping the most water when you factor in re-fuelling time it is a wash. The plane costs 15 000$ a day stand by and hasn't dropped any water yet just seems a bit wasteful to me.
 
If a Mars dumping the amount of the water they do "doesn't put out fires'.........then what good does a helicopter with a rather small bucket of water do?.

Well, first it drops off the rap attack crew and their equipment. Then it buckets water directly on the fire if appropriate. It can also fill a C bladder which the ground crew uses to feed fire hoses. This is initial attack when a fire is only a few square metres in size. I can't think of a scenario where the Mars would have been able to conduct initial attack on the Dog Mtn fire - if it was on contract it would have been stationed elsewhere, nearer one of the big fires burning at the time. And without a contract, it wasn't ready to go at 30 minutes notice. Initial attack is almost always with helicopter.

A lot of this controversy about the Mars is because of media coverage. No one can resist the sight and sound of those old planes so the reporters are always hot to show them working. Their sheer age and size makes for a good story, and there's a fair bit of Canadian pride involved, more specifically so for those in the Alberni valley where I detect a definite sense of ownership. They're far and away the best known fire attack aircraft in Canada and for the lay person it's easy to conclude that if the Mars bomber isn't working a big fire then not all efforts are being made. Some clarification and education would be a good start.
 
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