Gear'n'beer!
Well-Known Member
I guess that’s why Nissan discontinued the xd
Looking for used truck buying advice
- Thread starter Enniberg
- Start date
YachtMech
Well-Known Member
the toyota didn't have enough room? have you been in the crew cab? Im 6'2 and have tons of room in all directions and the back has even more! lol are you 7' tall? Im so confused by that statement.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
I found the chevy had more room and also body wasn't made of tin. I was really disappointed looking at the toyota honestly and the price. Just wasn't for me.
Depends what you use your truck for.
Depends what you use your truck for.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Yeah it really was disappointing. The ride just didn't feel right. I was also pretty disappointed in Tundra. I really wanted another import, but couldn't do it this time.
YachtMech
Well-Known Member
Lol not sure what you are referring to with the “made of tin”, and the price is due to their longevity and reliability. In the last 20 years chev/gm and Ford has a far worse history of frames rusting out and paint failing, and body rust, Toyota had a frame issue with one Gen of Tacoma’s and the first two years of the second Gen tundra. All which were fixed long ago, and they even did frame replacements well past the warrant period. I all honesty there is a reason Toyota is the best selling brand in the world, overtaking the VW group, and have been the best selling brand in the majority of countries worldwide for the past couple decades. Heck my friend got his Tacomas frame done at 300k and 10 years after buying the truck used.
And as far as sheet metal thickness goes pretty much every manufacturer uses 22ga steel for every vehicle, I have yet to see any documentation noting otherwise (with a few exceptions and aluminum body vehicles)
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
The payload capacity on the tundra was a big deterrent for myself. The box is light just like my Titan. It depends what you use it for. I am looking for something that can be used as work truck so I need the larger heavier frame.
They are great trucks, but I big to differ that they have a more solid frame than a Chevy.
YachtMech
Well-Known Member
ladies and gentlemen let’s welcome in our next comedian, he comes from a small town somewhere between dementia and alternate reality, So sit back relax, laugh and enjoy the show as he attempts to qualify his last statement.
YachtMech
Well-Known Member
I agree the payload could have been better but 1600lbs is plenty for the majority of people, unless you are hauling gravel constantly. The titan could have been better in so many ways but Nissan just didn’t have the money to invest in the truck, too small of a market share.
And if your talking about putting on a workbox, then it should really be a 3/4 ton truck or better, not a half ton as they just aren’t designed for it.
But to make a truck buying decision on just a couple inches of interior room seems a bit odd (unless you are Shaquille O'neill in which case I fully understand), when so many more important factors are at play.
Also I never argued the frame was more solid, base off your "made of tin" comment I was looking for some sort of justification for that statement. Simply because other manufacturers including chev had major rust issues spanning multiple models over multiple generations. Toyota did as well and I mentioned that to keep it on the level and fair.
Reality is a half ton truck has a frame suitable for a half ton truck, simple as that. However if you are stating that the Chevy frame is more solid or stronger, then there needs to be facts and numbers included with that statement otherwise its just an opinion, as when it comes to making judgements only facts and figures matter not opinions and hearsay.
The truth is all the frames are built solid now, its not like we are hearing about frames snapping in half due to weakness, they are all engineered beyond what they are rated for, the only time the snap is due to rust. As a note of interest Toyota actually moved away from fully boxed frames due to their tendency to retain dirt and moisture causing rust and potential frame failures, Ford just started fully boxing their f150 frames in 2015(?), it will be interesting to see how that develops.
Having multiple relatives and friends with trucks and being a engineer/mechanic myself I have seen what maintenance is like for all of our trucks, and out of everyone I know, I have put more miles on my truck, towed more often (weekly towing boats of various weights and sizes) and spent more time off road, With the least amount of repairs or unexpected maintenance.
In 350k and 8 years of ownership from new I have had to do the following:
-replace 2 alternators (regularly drive through water)
-2 hitch plugs due to corrosion (regularly back into water)
-1 wiper motor (covered under warranty)
-4 sets of tires
-3 sets of brakes (pads and rotors)
-1 tail light (bloody tree)
-1 drivers side window and the back window due to a bear wanting lunch
-Swapped the headlight bulbs for LED because why not
-regular maintenance of oil/filters/plugs at factory set intervals.
-replace rear leaf spring bushings (just done last week)
-I even pulled the injectors and sent them for testing at 300k and they came back with no need for refresh.
every part of the steering and suspension are still tight, wheel bearings have no play and are still perfect, CV's are still working perfect no play, never had any issue with the 4wd, shocks are still working fine and no leaks, AC still works perfect with no recharge, every bit of electronics still works, engine doesn’t have a dip of oil coming from anywhere and neither do the diffs, transfer case, transmission. doesn’t eat oil, I have beat the crap out of the interior loading tools in and out (carry roughly 500lbs of tools everywhere at all times and) its still holding up, I regularly load the bed full of wood (logs) or buckets/barrels of oil, load in engines/outdrives/propellers, spend hours on logging roads (sometimes barely recognizable) going to remote fishing areas.
I’ve had Ford and Chev trucks before and so has my father, I’ve had Jeeps, and at one point my daily driver work truck was a M54 6x6 and 3 ton Hino that I spliced together into a 6x6 off road monstrosity that could drive over highway medians (Michelin XZL 52” tires helped out with that). But now we both own tundras, we both tow regularly, Load up the tucks with gear and drive long distances to remote locations, and we get to do this while we enjoy the blissful reliability, we have never looked back.
When it comes down to it, its pretty had to say the base level engineering of any truck is markedly better than the next, because a lot of that is now determined by minimum safety standards, which is why no review will ever include the breaking strength of the frames, or crush resistance of body panels. What it really come down to is the finite engineering that makes the difference long term, it determines the cost of operation/maintenance and reliability/longevity.
YachtMech
Well-Known Member
That’s a concern that was brought up when they switched to aluminum, old land rovers had the same problem, aluminum is harder to keep paint on than steel, even with the special primers they use it tends to have problems with adhesion, from what I have researched in the past it partly has to do with oxides, partly has to do with the mechanical properties of aluminum. As an example paint will flex with a surface and stay adhered as long as the modulus of rupture (flexural strength) of the paint is equal to or greater than the surface its adhered to. This comes into effect when you compare how steel and aluminum absorb impact, steel body panels tends to absorb the energy of impact like a spring and will arc around an impact more smoothly as it is more compliant, aluminum panels of the same stiffness tends to be more rigid but are intrinsically softer so localized deformation is the result. Think of it this way, take steel and aluminum, for the same stiffness the aluminum needs to be three times thicker, but the metal itself is less hard (and its less dense). Mild steel is about 4 times harder than aluminum, so if you hit the two parts with the same hammer with the same force, a force less than the yield strength of the part, the steel will flex to absorb the impact and spring back into shape, and there will be a small amount of surface deformation. Now hit the aluminum part, and it will flex and spring back as well, but since its a softer metal the surface will absorb more energy though deformation. This deformation causes the paint to lose its bond, or potentially allows a crack to form and then oxidize, which results paint coming off at a later date.
There are may descriptors for Materials for good reason and they are broken down into Stress and Strain
Stress is measured by impact strength, yield strength, fatigue strength compressive strength and tensile strength.
Strain resistance is measured by deformation, strain and deflection.
And stress and strain measurements are combined in stress-strain curves to describe things like elasticity and plasticity
This is a pet peve of mine, Manufacturers regularly use terms like rigid, stronger, stiffness interchangeably as buzz words but its just BS and hype with no actual explanation for their claims of 10 times stiffer!! 3 times better!! Without providing number in relation to the descriptors listed above their claims are literally meaningless, which is why you can't sue them over it.
Now Im not trying to rip on your truck but this was a convenient example, this is quoted straight from fords press release
- Ford engineers increased the use of high-strength steel in the all-new Ford F-150 frame from 23 percent to 77 percent to create a pickup frame that is stronger, more durable and structurally more rigid than the current F-150, while saving up to 60 pounds of weight
- Thanks to its innovative, high-strength, military-grade, aluminum-alloy body coupled with the high-strength steel frame,
High strength??!! in what way compared to what?, oh and military grade aluminum is 6000 series aluminum, you can find that in a bike at Canadian tire.
But in the end what ford did had already been done… by landrover in 1948, the problem with paint retention on aluminum is well documented all over the place, it’s the same reasons painting aluminum boats is a PITA, just like everything else aluminum.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
I merely commented on what I bought. Looked at all the trucks. As I said in end the Tundra just doesn't do it for me. Not my thing.
YachtMech
Well-Known Member
to be fair you made a conclusive statement that other trucks were inferior than your own by stating that the "body wasn't made of tin", insinuating the other manufacturers are of less quality compared to the manufacturer of your choice, and you presented no facts or figures to support that. I am simply forming a rebuttal with facts and figures, something I would expect from you as well on a forum that should be presenting facts and figures and not personal opinions with inflamitory remarks like saying something is of lesser quality or "made of tin". I was simply providing a valid point of opposition.
and the statement that " but I beg to differ that they have a more solid frame than a Chevy" is also unqualified, because that is not figure that any manufacturer supplies. Does ford have a stronger frame? dodge? nissan? we don’t know as there is no measurement for the frame strength other than the manufacturers categorizing them 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton.
Now if you said I bought it because I liked the look of it better or the color matched my boat, then I would have no legitimate opposition to that.
I’m just a person who doesn’t appreciate baseless statements or fact-less justifications, we have too much of that in the world as is. For the short time I’ve been on this forum I have only responded and posted constructively, I don’t see that as a problem. But disparaging comments without facts to support them should be recognized as problematic
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SpringVelocity
Crew Member
OMG LOL. Let it go my friend.
YachtMech
Well-Known Member
again less helpfull but expected
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Let it go....
Gear'n'beer!
Well-Known Member
YachtMech
Well-Known Member
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