Liberal MPs Reject Study of Fishery Closure Impacts in British Columbia

[ziggy]

I just finished up another letter to the Minister asking for the results of the closures on the number of spawners making it through. Clearly if the are actually using science, they must be collecting data to justify their theory. One of the key principles of a scientific approach is to formulate a theory and collect data in order to defend that theory, or discount it. If that’s not happening then the whole exercise is just BS.

I also questioned how catching hatchery fish was supposed to impact the Fraser run. I suggested it has far more to do with ease of enforcement than it does in protecting the run. Keep more boots on the ground in Ottawa Offices! Makes you wonder if maybe just getting out there, or catch and release fishing will remove the self serving incentive DFO gets from closure?

 

[oldtimer]

I do not understand the reasons why the Liberal MPs voted against this study? Not that we even need a study in the first place, on an issue of such importance to both the National and Provincial economies? Could someone please explain what is going on here? What political reasons or motivation would the Liberals have for making this stupid decision as this decision must be going to affect many of their voters?

 

[patbay]

I do not understand the reasons why the Liberal MPs voted against this study? Not that we even need a study in the first place, on an issue of such importance to both the National and Provincial economies? Could someone please explain what is going on here? What political reasons or motivation would the Liberals have for making this decision as this decision must be going to affect many of their voters?

Its the liberals who brought about this closure. So they don't want anyone to know how damaging the closures have been.

 

[GLG]

I do not understand the reasons why the Liberal MPs voted against this study? Not that we even need a study in the first place, on an issue of such importance to both the National and Provincial economies? Could someone please explain what is going on here? What political reasons or motivation would the Liberals have for making this decision as this decision must be going to affect many of their voters?

The motion was designed to fail so that something could be posted on the local Conservative candidate's website to help him get elected. Anyone that has followed how all this works in Government committees will see this. You don't just call for an expensive road trip that takes up alot of time without first doing your homework. If you listen to the recording of the meeting you will see that a study was done on the implications of this change to the regulation and the honourable member should have requested that first. He should have also got this issue onto the agenda for the next meeting but he did not. That shows you that this was just a stunt.

https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/FOPO/meeting-147/minutes

 

[IronNoggin]

... If you listen to the recording of the meeting you will see that a study was done on the implications of this change to the regulation and the honourable member should have requested that first.

You keep on supporting the notion that an actual study was conducted.
The ONLY reference to which that can be found anywhere is in those taped minutes.
I counter with my belief that was simply a lie.
If such a study were to have been conducted, it certainly would subject to a hell of a lot of scrutiny one would think.

Until you (or anyone else) can produce a copy of said study, I am not inclined to change my mind on the matter.

Nog

 

[agentaqua]

and question period is all about appearing to be interested and involved w/o really doing anything - all for the same reasons GLG posted above...

 

[GLG]

You keep on supporting the notion that an actual study was conducted.
The ONLY reference to which that can be found anywhere is in those taped minutes.
I counter with my belief that was simply a lie.
If such a study were to have been conducted, it certainly would subject to a hell of a lot of scrutiny one would think.

Until you (or anyone else) can produce a copy of said study, I am not inclined to change my mind on the matter.

Nog

You are suggesting that a serious offence of lying to a government committee by Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Paul Gillis, Director General, Strategic Policy has been committed with nothing more than your feelings and belief. You should take your accusation to some who cares like the honorable member of committee that made the motion. You can reach him on twitter using this link. Just don't scroll down his timeline as this issue didn't make onto the issues he thought, and cared were important enough to tweet. Funny that huh.
https://twitter.com/blainecalkinsmp

 

[saltcod]

I went to Blaine Calkins twitter feed and began reading down. One of the articles was about a NASA finding that a cooling event is about to happen. Fair enough, but when the article went on to say that only God, and the sun had any control over the climate, well, I kind of went really? I guess there are still people who believe that God still controls everything. Not looking for a religious debate here, pile on if you want, I won't reply

 

[oldtimer]

You have to wonder if the Liberals are thinking that they are living on a different planet when it comes to the management of our Fishery? I cannot believe that they can make such a profoundly stupid decision without realizing that there are going to be some ballot box consequences? I would suspect that even some Liberals enjoy fishing or are in tourist related businesses such as hotels, restaurants, fishing tackle shops, boat and marine dealerships, taxi companies, float plane operations, work for the airlines, are charter operators, are fishing lodge owners etc etc. This unbelievable, hard to understand decision is going to affect the livelihoods of many thousands of people in our Province and could be the death knell of many tourist related businesses. If the Liberals have a political death wish be careful what you wish for?
What a bunch of ignorant assholes.

 

[IronNoggin]

Despite reaching out to many who have been impacted by these closures, not a single one of us can find any reference to the study as mentioned.
Today, I have therefore contacted MP's Doherty and Calkins requesting that they clarify this matter.
I am also attempting to contact Paul Gillis towards the same purpose.
I will of course post any and all responses I may receive in this regard.

Cheers,
Nog

 

[wildmanyeah]

They just released this report

https://www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Committee/421/FOPO/Reports/RP10387715/foporp21/foporp21-e.pdf

In it one of the recommendations was to gather this type of data. So I find it hard to believe they are sitting on the data of the Socio-Economic Chinook impacts of the Chinook closure. Also I believe the Sara team was going to look into the Socio-Economic impact of the steelhead closures and not sure if that report was ever released or if they have completed that assesment.

" Collection of Socio-Economic Data

Given economic benefit distribution concerns described in the previous sections and the
need to consider a comprehensive approach to sustainable fisheries that would include
regional economic benefits to coastal communities, witnesses emphasized the need for
DFO to collect and analyse socio-economic data. The BC Seafood Alliance noted that
DFO has virtually no ability to develop a baseline profile of commercial fishing activity
because it simply does not have information on the current socio-economic status of the
fishery—its revenue base, costs, employment, community/regional footprint, etc. The
most recent fleet profiles are more than a decade out of date and so do not reflect the
many changes since then. Without baseline data, DFO cannot assess the impact of
policies or activities whether these be MPAs [marine protected areas], SARA [species at
risk] listings, or licencing policy."
88

 

[IronNoggin]

They just released this report

https://www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Committee/421/FOPO/Reports/RP10387715/foporp21/foporp21-e.pdf

I was aware of that.
However there is no way that can be construed as an investigation of the social & economic impacts of the Chinook closures upon BC.
I will keep pressing...

Nog

 

[wildmanyeah]

However there is no way that can be construed as an investigation of the social & economic impacts of the Chinook closures upon BC.

Nor was I implying that it was, I was pointing out that

"DFO has virtually no ability to develop a baseline profile of commercial fishing activity
because it simply does not have information on the current socio-economic status of the
fishery—its revenue base, costs, employment, community/regional footprint, etc."

 

[IronNoggin]

"Good morning Matt,

Thank you for contacting the office of Blaine Calkins, Member of Parliament for Red Deer – Lacombe.

There are a few avenues that we are working on to get the details of if there was a study done on the socio economic results for the Chinook closure. Unfortunately, to find this information, if it exists, takes some time.

MP Calkins and MP Doherty will be on the island from June 17th to 19th to meet with constituents about these decisions that were made. Be sure to know that we are fighting against these closures.

Sincerely,

Chris Everett
Executive Assistant
Office of Blaine Calkins – Member of Parliament for Red Deer–Lacombe
Telephone: 613.995.8886 |Fax: 613.996.9860 | Email: blaine.calkins.a1@parl.gc.ca"

It would appear that I am not the only one thinking this so-called study may not exist...

 

[oldtimer]

This is bloody well crazy that the DFO and the Liberals are being allowed to get away with this dishonest charade. Maybe the only way to deal with this kind
of dishonest nonsense is to initiate a massive class action suit against the DFO for their gross mismanagement of our Fishery? I bet that there is a good law firm out there that would take this case on a pro bono basis? Maybe this is the only way to get their attention?

 

[saltcod]

I would be surprised that a study could have been done on the economic impact of the Chinook restrictions when we are only 1/2 way through the closure period. We won't really know until the end of the season. Even then the long term result won't be known. How many lost bookings, hotel stays, incidental purchases, restaurant meals that won't get purchased in the future because of what is happening right now. There are the results of a survey done by the B.C. Chamber of Commerce on what businesses are experiencing now and what they expect for this season.

https://na2.visioncritical.com/i/stories/shared?id=889950fb-db67-4b0c-8ccf-aa41012c4ecd

 

[IronNoggin]

I am still digging, but the deeper I get, the more convinced I am that there was / is NO such study.
Should this prove to be the case, as GLG noted, it is a rather serious matter.
One for which I will personally make a point of seeing head's roll if at all possible.

Nog

 

[saltcod]

While I applaud the efforts of the non-liberal members on the standing committee, As I said above, no way to tell what the impact is yet. Might take a couple of years, and they probably know that. Raising the issue is what is important right now.

 

[IronNoggin]

I spoke about this matter to Gord Johns (NDP Fishery Critic) yesterday.
He stated that "to the best of his knowledge such a study has never been conducted and simply does not exist".
He is also digging deeper into the matter, and will let me know what he finds in the next little while.

VERY much starting to appear to be a blatant lie.

Nog

 

[oldtimer]

Why should it come as a big surprise to any of us to suddenly find out that the DFO and Politicians lie? When that has been their MO for decades. All this scientific data that the DFO has been basing their "Conservation" decisions on over the years is also a myth and does not exist nor has it ever existed. The truth has one color but lies have many colors and the DFO exhibits all the colors of a rainbow.