Important Victoria & Area SFAB Halibut Mtg Nov. 27

[Cut Plug]

It was a good meeting, and thank you to all of you who provided such great information regarding the tough decision we'll once again have to make regarding halibut this year. At the SFAC meeting the Chair of the SFAB spoke about the SFI conference and a video that Minister Wilkinson provided in lieu of his personal attendance (he is in Africa). In that video the minister spoke of supporting and moving ahead with a strategic plan called the "Recreational Vision 2021" which is essentially about DFO recognizing the value of the recreational fishery in BC (which he did in the video) by investing in its future by appropriately funding its management and development. Providing adequate funding to the SFAB process is key to this. Then meetings can be properly advertized, rooms can be rented, a 21st century non-government website can be built, live streaming can be incorporated etc, etc. Its a real shame that some on this forum seem to think that the lack of these things is some kind of conspiracy by an evil cabal of "old timers" who want to shut every progressive thinker out of the process. That's simply untrue. It is and always has been about resources, not a desire to keep anything secret. . That is likely to change and I sincerely hope that it will allow those of you who feel left out to participate.

I must admit to being a bit confused about the whole whale watching debate. I happen to sit on a committee where we are desperately trying to get the whale watchers (PWWA) to accept the 400m bubble for SRKW's only as an precautionary approach for an alternative to area closures and they flatly refuse to do that. They insist that the status quo - which means area closures - is the only thing that will work for them. We all want to build an alliance, but that typically means a little give and take on both sides.There has been absolutely no attempt at compromise from the whale watching community so building this alliance is proving really difficult. From what I read on this thread, it appears that some of you are well connected with the whale watching community, and are also willing to fight for the 400m bubble to your last breath. Perhaps you can have a word with them?

CP

 

[wildmanyeah]

Its a real shame that some on this forum seem to think that the lack of these things is some kind of conspiracy by an evil cabal of "old timers" who want to shut every progressive thinker out of the process. That's simply untrue. It is and always has been about resources, not a desire to keep anything secret. . That is likely to change and I sincerely hope that it will allow those of you who feel left out to participate.

Well maybe you were lucky enough to actually have a chair that responded to your emails, I was not. Never responded to one email and never passed one any documents from the various committees (halibut, shellfish, chinook) ect... In the SFAC meetings the response form the chair was simply, Oh that was a chinook committee call, or that was a halibut committee call ect...

 

[profisher]

Asking the whale watchers to stay 400 M away from whales means they are too far away to have business that will survive. I wouldn't pay to see whales from a 1/4 mile away....that is the same distance as an old school drag strip. Just as I wouldn't expect anyone to be interested in going fishing if you couldn't use hooks. They are now restricted to 200m (up from 100 m) when viewing any SRKW. (and the same the US enforces in their waters) We should adopt the same 200m rule but still include the 400m Bubble as our sectors starting point to begin pulling gear, turning off sounding equipment in preparation of keeping 200m away. Until science proves that all boats need to stay further than 200m away we should accept the same rules.

 

[SpringVelocity]

Asking the whale watchers to stay 400 M away from whales means they are too far away to have business that will survive. I wouldn't pay to see whales from a 1/4 mile away....that is the same distance as an old school drag strip. Just as I wouldn't expect anyone to be interested in going fishing if you couldn't use hooks. They are now restricted to 200m (up from 100 m) when viewing any SRKW. (and the same the US enforces in their waters) We should adopt the same 200m rule but still include the 400m Bubble as our sectors starting point to begin pulling gear, turning off sounding equipment in preparation of keeping 200m away. Until science proves that all boats need to stay further than 200m away we should accept the same rules.

Wow who do you represent?

 

[Derby]

Here a question for you profisher... I believe the 400m is applied to only SRKW only.. what percentage of there daily encounters are SRKW?

 

[profisher]

Same as us not very often. Here is something for you. How often are we going to be able to keep 400m away from them using just a simple 400m exclusion zone? Given on anything but a flat calm day or when the whale watchers are already with the whales so we know where and when to look for them...with any other conditions I would never see them coming at 400m. (1/4 mile) With any wind chop and waves that would require staring at a particular spot on the water for minutes waiting to catch maybe one of the larger bulls surfacing to even know they are there. I don't do that and I'm pretty sure nobody else does either. On top of that if you are to keep 400 m away you would have to start the process of pulling gear, turning off sounders and moving out of their path before they get to 400m. If the whales are traveling at 10 mph they will cover 100m towards you in 22 seconds. Can I pull 3 downriggers and rods, turn off sounding equipment and move out of the way in 22 seconds....NOPE even 44 seconds is doubtfull. If you could do it in 44 seconds you would have to see them 600 m away to stay 400 m away. That is a long way off to spot any whale except a humpback that breaches. Keep it more realistic start at 400m and end up staying 200 m away. At least that works for most peoples eyesight capabilities.

 

[profisher]

SV grow up. I represent my own thoughts on this forum. I know that having another powerful group working directly against my interests is not a good thing. Why would I provoke that to happen? I also have my own personal opinions about whale watchers, but I don't use my inner voice as doing that only hurts us IMO.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Whale watchers spend more time watching seals and transients then anything else.

wonder what side of a seal harvest they will be on...

 

[profisher]

Just as I'm sure there are a few Pacific Whale Watching members who would like to speak their minds on recreational fishing for Chinook salmon...will that do them any good to make an enemy with us? Ultimately we have to wait for science to come up with a real and workable solution for the SRKW...emotional responses are not going to cut it. If you think so then you would agree with the methods of the NGO's and should join them.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Just as I'm sure there are a few Pacific Whale Watching members who would like to speak their minds on recreational fishing for Chinook salmon...will that do them any good to make an enemy with us? Ultimately we have to wait for science to come up with a real and workable solution for the SRKW...emotional responses are not going to cut it. If you think so then you would agree with the methods of the NGO's and should join them.

That's a fair enough point

 

[Cut Plug]

Asking the whale watchers to stay 400 M away from whales means they are too far away to have business that will survive. I wouldn't pay to see whales from a 1/4 mile away....that is the same distance as an old school drag strip. Just as I wouldn't expect anyone to be interested in going fishing if you couldn't use hooks. They are now restricted to 200m (up from 100 m) when viewing any SRKW. (and the same the US enforces in their waters) We should adopt the same 200m rule but still include the 400m Bubble as our sectors starting point to begin pulling gear, turning off sounding equipment in preparation of keeping 200m away. Until science proves that all boats need to stay further than 200m away we should accept the same rules.

I understand their position, but am now totally confused about yours. I thought you wrote you'd be willing to "fight to the last breath" for the 400m bubble?

The challenge I face in the whale watchers argument is that given the current status of this population of whales, and that apparently only the recreational sector is being held accountable for making any significant sacrifices to aid in their recovery, that continuing to treat them as some kind of tourist attraction whereby companies can profit from interfering with their ability to socialize, rest and acquire prey is no longer acceptable.

At the Nov 2017 SRKW Prey Acquisition Workshop at UBC close to half of the room of Canadian and US whale and salmon experts suggested that 400m was the precautionary approach that needed to be taken with regards to distance in order to attempt to eliminate, rather than jut reduce, physical and acoustic disturbance from small vessels. 200m is a compromise based on the whale watchers insisting they still need the ability to get too close to the whales in order to continue to profit from their exploitation.

I'd suggest that given the extreme measures that are being adopted in the recreational fishery, that everyone needs to do their part to assist in the recovery of these animals. The only way the closures will ever go away is if the whales show signs of recovery in their physical condition and start having successful births again. I believe the concept of complete avoidance of SRKW's is something all vessel operators need to adopt. If you see killer whales, head the opposite direction, don't try and get closer. One would assume that those who have profited directly from the whales for many years, and possibly have played a significant role in their decline, would be willing to accept an even greater responsibility to aid in their recovery. Apparently not.

Th WA State Orca Task Force (google it) has adopted a series of measures including the potential banning of all commercial boat based whale watching on SRKW's in recognition of the significant role that small vessel physical and acoustic disturbance has played in their decline. There isn't one single option in that paper that recommends a closure or closed area to recreational fishing. I'd suggest that recreational anglers would be well advised to applaud the recommendations found in that report, and urge DFO to align our measures very closely with their approach.

It's time for everyone to do their part. Humpbacks and porpoises are plentiful in JdF, and what do I need to say about seals and sea lions - one could suggest there are even too many of them. There is lots of wildlife out there to view, so why do they still need to continue to exploit an endangered population for profit? Enough is enough, if we all can't just agree to leave SRKW's completely alone, then I believe all of our sacrifices and investment will be for nothing.

CP

 

[chris73]

Maybe we should proposed that electric powered vessel with no noise impact can fish everywhere. Andrew P has shown what is possible and feasible. Very simple and convincing I think. And a good move for the environment on top!

 

[casper5280]

Great post Cut Plug that is exactly my thoughts on this issue. I would be totally on board with the whale watching groups would also stay out of the closed areas, but they refuse to do so and any money that they throw at the net pen is just good PR for them. I do agree though that it is s waste of time fighting the WW as the real fight is with DFO but I still don’t think we should be getting in bed with these groups either

 

[The Jackel]

I have ocean front property and i will eat my shorts if the whale watching vessels stay 200 meters away from the whales, more like 2oo ft. Correct me if i am wrong but weren't they fighting to get the 200 meter rule tossed out and go back to 100 meters. I do agree if they are shut down completely then we will be too. So 400 meters it should be. Pro if you have a screamer big spring on one line me thinks your other lines would be up pronto and chasing, so maybe put the same effort in pulling lines when the whales show up!!

 

[profisher]

Casper no one is in bed with them, the simple fact is they throw money at a project to feed whales, end of story there. I just don’t agree with getting involved in crafting their protocals just as I don’t want them crafting ours. Cut plug I still agree with the 400m for us, but in reality it is a 200 m bubble because the whales will be 200m away before you can be ready to get out of the way if you first spot them at 400 m. To set it up any other way is setting it up to fail.
We could work together with the whale watchers to alert one anoyher of the SRKW presence by setting up a system where we both use VHF transmissions on each others monitoring channels. We could also use some sort of flag that is raised when these whales are close to that area. This would help inform those without radios or with radios turned off. The whale watchers could hoist the same flag while viewing only SRKW so we could tell visually which whales they are with. Ideas to make sure we are able to comply with our bubble.

 

[profisher]

Asking the whale whatchers to agree to a 400m exclusion zone with the argement that the whales need he extra room, they are not around often anyway and you have other whales and mammels to view in their place is like them saying you should give up year round retention of any salmon over 25 pounds because the whales need those bigger fish, you don’t catch them. ery often anyways and you have other fish you can catch....don’t say we wouldn’t oppose that too!

 

[ziggy]

Asking the whale whatchers to agree to a 400m exclusion zone with the argement that the whales need he extra room, they are not around often anyway and you have other whales and mammels to view in their place is like them saying you should give up year round retention of any salmon over 25 pounds because the whales need those bigger fish, you don’t catch them. ery often anyways and you have other fish you can catch....don’t say we wouldn’t oppose that too!

Let’s not lose track of the main issue which is trolling in some areas is banned to reduce noise,while high speed entry and departure by larger vessels in these same areas is not banned. From my perspective I am more curious as to why DFO seemingly is contradicting itself by having different rules for different users, in these so called refuges! I am not surprised that whale watchers are taking advantage of DFO’s incompetence, nor can we hold it against them! But I also have no intention of avoiding mentioning the stupidity and inconsistency of DFO’s noise excuse, in order to protect whale watchers. DFO has to be called out on this!

 

[profisher]

Exactly seems very simple, 200m for all boats no closed areas and we start the process of staying away at 400 m because we have stuff in the water to clear first, others don’t. The comment about speeding up clearing the gear and that if it was a big fish the gear would come up faster. Maybe 30 years ago in the days of manual downriggers but todays equipment that most use can’t be sped up. It takes the time it takes.

 

[The Jackel]

F*ck me Pro, you should be a spokes person for the whale watchers. Bull **** on pulling your gear, plain and simple if you want me to spell it out for you. First turn your engine and sounder off, 5 seconds, you can take all dam day to pull your line then as you will not be an issue in regards to bothering the whales and you guests can have a close up an personal experience just like the whale watchers, you also didn't answer the question about the whale watchers wanting dfo to go back to 100 meters, you must have forgotten that point.

 

[profisher]

You are supposed to move out of the way not sit dead in the water in their path, which the whales watchers can’t do either. Obviously there will be times when that is impossible for us. If they want to live with the public perception of their group lobbying to go back to 100m that is up to them. IMO that is a bad move but and will only hurt them...but that is their business not mine.