how are VI rivers doing in your experience/opinion??

[jbv]

i've lived on the Island for 7 yrs. i've met a lot of interesting folks in my line of work, and have paid close attention to environmental issues and natural resources for many years. i have heard that (from a Forest Stewardship Council auditor and a number of professional foresters) that the standards here on the Island are very high for logging in terms of conservation and the like. it doesn't often look that way to me, but i'm just a layman. and apparently we have come a long way from in the past, but i don't really know. it's what i read and what i'm told. private land maybe less so than public.

i was asking a fly fishing guru recently about his fishing experiences and he had just come back from the west coast on a few rivers. said the logging is brutal and destroying rivers like never before. cutting right to the river edge no buffer. a number of steelhead runs silting over from upland deforestation. the Sarita was one river mentioned, can't remember the others.

anyways it was a sad conversation, he was pretty upset about it. i don't like to take sides without full information and i'm not anti business or forestry. i am anti destroying rivers and ideal wildlife habitat that's for dam sure though. frustrating cause i don't know the full story or if it's all exaggeration...

what's your take? seeing a lot of destructive practices out there ruining rivers that take decades or longer to recover? we sure have wrecked a lot of good water on the east side in many places. lots of time and money to sort of restore some of it. rivers take thousands of years to evolve, a few years to ruin if we're reckless...

 

[Rum Buddies]

seeing the same things, logging right to the edge of rivers and flash floods due to not enough trees to trap the water and hold the water.

It's bad out there man, loggers are going full retard cutting everything in site.

 

[searun]

Not only is river habitat destruction an issue, there are rivers that have stable but small runs of steelhead that have been closed to fishing for more than a decade.

I was just chatting tonight with a friend who was asking if there was anything we can do to talk to the provincial fisheries guys about opening up some of these rivers. My response was simple...why waste your time. Been having those same discussions for years, with the same response and excuses. Many of the east coast rivers have more steelhead in them than west coast rivers that are currently open. There seems to be a culture within the ministry that supports a strong belief that anglers are the cause of steelhead decline.

It just makes no sense that the fishery is closed when there is strong scientific evidence that sport caught and released steelhead have almost no catch associated mortality (LGL study).

 

[Seafever]

Here on mid-coast East Vanc. island I would not say that logging is the entire culprit.

Urban development probably runs a close parallel.

Subdivisions being built all over the place......and more, bigger subdivisions in the works. All these subdivisions need a water source......and also sewage and greywater facilities. All these subdivisions have lawns ,,and regardless of regulations there are some people that will be use chemicals on them.

Drinking, potable water has to come from somewhere.....and they'd like it to be the nearest big river or lake.

Right now in Parksville there is a big issue about future water sources. The DFO told them 'no' water from the Englishman currently (regarding future plans).......as the fish are/will be threatened.

But the attitude from regional and some local governances is that the DFO is a just a thorn in the side to be dealt with somehow.

So it's clear to see that development , profits and money come first....as usual.

Take a look at the Cowichan.......extremely low levels (especially in the summer) the last couple of years.......but if the developers had their way , that fact wouldn't stop them at all.

I watched a doc on the Colorado River in the States......by the time the water reaches the ocean (which it doesn't unless they open dams)...95% of the water is used up and gone. Just mentioned it as an example.

So yes......logging not good in some cases......but if you keep building hundreds and hundreds of houses in a finite land area, the water supply is going to be a major factor with resultant consequences.

 

[Fish Nutz]

seeing the same things, logging right to the edge of rivers and flash floods due to not enough trees to trap the water and hold the water.

It's bad out there man, loggers are going full retard cutting everything in site.

In response to the "Loggers going full retard" comment I would like to see where these rivers are that have been logged right up to. Plain and simple this shouldn't happen by law and if it is you should be reporting it to the local compliance and enforcement officers rather than spouting off against logging on an internet forum. In the forest industry streams are classed based on size and fish presence and then managed for accordingly. 99% of the time if we are talking about a large stream or river there will be fish presence which by law (On crown land) have to have various buffers up to 100 meters for the largest ones. All areas logged on crown land are assessed by Professionals to ensure that the proper management measures have been taken which is why I find it hard to believe that a river was logged right up to. I wouldn't normally pipe up on something like this but it is frustrating to see misinformed people spout off against an industry which provides so much revenue and jobs for this province and it's people.

Forestry has had a bad rap in the past but nowadays is very conscientious and does not have the " the log it to the beach " mentality of yesteryear. I can 100% agree that back in the day there were questionable practices that have increased sedimentation, decreased the forests ability to hold onto water and destroyed important habitat, all of which in turn does contribute to the flashiness of creeks you refer to in your statement. That cannot be disputed.

Personally I take great pride in the way I approach and manage the areas where I practice professional forestry and can speak 100% from experience that we are not going full retard on the forests. I cannot speak for what happens on private land, that is a whole other beast. They have their own set of rules they need to follow.

If you'd like to discuss or are interested in becoming more informed about the legislation that governs this sort of thing feel free to PM me.

My .02

FN

 

[eroyd]

One huge problem is that those hillsides that once held moisture to carry rivers over during the dry periods, or hold water back during heavy rain fall no longer do. This is all to do with past foresty practices. Steelhead runs in most rivers are just remnant of what they once were. Can it be fixed and who's going to take on the mess no longer existing companies made?
Though token efforts are made to protect salmon fisheries I really think that to the powers that be and the corporations, these fish are a nuisance. When there's a few short term dollars to be made the fish will lose. Look at the recent "run of river projects". Example: On the Kokish River where one of these projects has been completed, (against local opposition, against science,) fisheries has closed recreational fishing in a section to study the impacts after the fact. Duh!

 

[Cuba Libre]

99% of the time if we are talking about a large stream or river there will be fish presence which by law (On crown land) have to have various buffers up to 100 meters for the largest ones.

Notice the weasle room?? CROWN LAND---- most of VI from Campbell River south is PRIVATELY held. Show me where there is a 100 meter buffer on PRIVATE land where there is good quality timber.. aint happening.

 

[Sitkaspruce]

There is a "law"......

http://www.bclaws.ca/Recon/document/ID/freeside/00_03080_01#section26

How ever, it is the wolves who watch the wolves and regulate what they do with the private land......

There is "words" around what they are to do, but no real enforcement of those "Words".......

Private land and fisheries protection (and wildlife habitat for that matter) do not really go in the same sentence pr even paragraph....

Crown land is a different story and if you see something you think is wrong, first make yourself familiar with the current Forest and Practices Act and associated regulations along with the Forest Act (can be found under BCLaws.ca) so you do not waste the C&E staff's time chasing no existent complaints.

Cheers

SS

 

[Last Chance]

In response to the "Loggers going full retard" comment I would like to see where these rivers are that have been logged right up to. Plain and simple this shouldn't happen by law and if it is you should be reporting it to the local compliance and enforcement officers rather than spouting off against logging on an internet forum. In the forest industry streams are classed based on size and fish presence and then managed for accordingly. 99% of the time if we are talking about a large stream or river there will be fish presence which by law (On crown land) have to have various buffers up to 100 meters for the largest ones. All areas logged on crown land are assessed by Professionals to ensure that the proper management measures have been taken which is why I find it hard to believe that a river was logged right up to. I wouldn't normally pipe up on something like this but it is frustrating to see misinformed people spout off against an industry which provides so much revenue and jobs for this province and it's people.

Forestry has had a bad rap in the past but nowadays is very conscientious and does not have the " the log it to the beach " mentality of yesteryear. I can 100% agree that back in the day there were questionable practices that have increased sedimentation, decreased the forests ability to hold onto water and destroyed important habitat, all of which in turn does contribute to the flashiness of creeks you refer to in your statement. That cannot be disputed.

Personally I take great pride in the way I approach and manage the areas where I practice professional forestry and can speak 100% from experience that we are not going full retard on the forests. I cannot speak for what happens on private land, that is a whole other beast. They have their own set of rules they need to follow.

If you'd like to discuss or are interested in becoming more informed about the legislation that governs this sort of thing feel free to PM me.

My .02

FN

Muir creek.

 

[SpringVelocity]

Muir creek.

Good one Kelly. Perfect example.

 

[eroyd]

Muir creek.

Muir creek is on Private land. The lower river below the falls has a nice buffer of timber and hopefully it stays that way. Unfortunately the head waters was stripped 20-30 years ago.
This creek's small steelhead run have been more harmed by poachers. Not even sure if there is any left. I didn't see any this year.

 

[Rum Buddies]

Muir creek.

muir creek and every other stream all the way to clayquot sound and beyond. Forestry has GONE FULL RETARD on the west coast VI -- all to feed China.



I don't know man, do you honestly think that foresty is being responsible out there? Are you ok with them cutting down the last of our old growth trees?

 

[Fish Nutz]

muir creek and every other stream all the way to clayquot sound and beyond. Forestry has GONE FULL RETARD on the west coast VI -- all to feed China.



I don't know man, do you honestly think that foresty is being responsible out there? Are you ok with them cutting down the last of our old growth trees?

"Forestry being responsible" is a pretty general term. Like I said before I only speak for the way we manage the forests in crown land. Sure everything would be better if nobody logged anything and we left all the pretty trees for everyone to enjoy, but that's not reality. Are there things that could be done better? Sure there are just like any other industry but what I'm saying is that forestry as a whole has come a long ways and it's not fair to paint forestry on private land and crown with the same brush.

As well to comment on your point about everything going to feed China. That simply isn't the case, with respect to old growth. He majority of the crown wood headed to China is low grade second growth hemlock and balsam which domestic markets will not pay enough to make it worth while logging. As well most wood that is exported from the province has to be advertised here before it can be sent overseas giving domestic buyers first crack.

I won't waste any more time on this as it seems that your mind is made up on the subject, I just suggest that before you post opinions on subjects such as this you might want to take some time and make that opinion an informed one.

 

[walleyes]

"Forestry being responsible" is a pretty general term. Like I said before I only speak for the way we manage the forests in crown land. Sure everything would be better if nobody logged anything and we left all the pretty trees for everyone to enjoy, but that's not reality. Are there things that could be done better? Sure there are just like any other industry but what I'm saying is that forestry as a whole has come a long ways and it's not fair to paint forestry on private land and crown with the same brush.

As well to comment on your point about everything going to feed China. That simply isn't the case, with respect to old growth. He majority of the crown wood headed to China is low grade second growth hemlock and balsam which domestic markets will not pay enough to make it worth while logging. As well most wood that is exported from the province has to be advertised here before it can be sent overseas giving domestic buyers first crack.

I won't waste any more time on this as it seems that your mind is made up on the subject, I just suggest that before you post opinions on subjects such as this you might want to take some time and make that opinion an informed one.

Fish Nutz,, it's pretty much pointless trying to discuss or explain anything like this with most of this crowd. Most don't know or understand and don't want to. Life is better with your head in the sand I guess.

 

[finaddict]

Gentlemen, you seem to want to throw a blanket over every comment as "ill-informed" without knowing how much knowledge the poster does or does not have. If you ever get a chance to fly in small aircraft and under 3000 feet, take a trip from tip to tip of Vancouver island and then really honestly tell me that responsible forestry has been practiced.

Saying that you are now practicing good forestry is like trying to close the barn door after the horse has already escaped. The evidence of unacceptable forestry is everywhere on V.I. I would suggest to you that rather than ask people to show poor practices in forestry these days, you should show good practices that ARE being done. Promotion and demonstration of such acts will go much further in demonstrating how far things have improved than a defensive and antagonistic approach.

 

[Clint r]

Not just Vancouver island. A lot of the parts of the province I travel are beautiful and green with lots of trees. Until you leave the highway and head off into the bush. Then it's like a false fronted building. Large areas with not a tree left. People believe what they see. And as long as they see trees along the highways, they think all of BC is like that. But it's not that way in my experience.

 

[Cuba Libre]

In areas with beetle kill in the Interior, the salvage looks ugly. But the alternative is a massive wildfire, so I accept that it will be years before my grandkids see the forests that my generation witnessed. But I still see NO excuse for the lack of standards for logging private land on Vancouver Island. No wonder the big companies dont want to allow reasonable monitored access on their private lands--- we will see too much..........

 

[chevyshaulass]

im not sure what they did on the salmon river this past year but holy smokes does the river ever rise and fall faster than ever.

 

[jbv]

even on private land, are there not some sort of environmental laws or standards in place? a forester once told me there were but enforcement was much more difficult. i brought the subject up knowing it is contentious and i certainly get a 'sense' that all is not well, but i know that looks can be deceiving and modern practices are said to be the most stringent in the world here on the Island. it's so bloody complicated!

 

[Bear]

"im not sure what they did on the salmon river this past year but holy smokes does the river ever rise and fall faster than ever."

Most island rivers were like that this year. There was no snow build up so what rain we got ran right off the mountains. When there is no snow pack the river rise and fall very quickly.