Happy with the Pod !!!!!

[Doubleheader]

I find it hard to believe the issue couldn’t be fixed without major changes, that’s a 200hpdi quite a bit lighter than 600# df225 that I’ve seen work on a podded 215 campion

 

[ericl]

Sounds like the engine is mounted so that the prop is too deep. I have had 2 podded boats & the 1 inch height increase for every foot the prop is back from the transom sounds correct. Make that change first. A 4 blade prop usually lifts the stern a bit. Trim tabs will additionally increase your planing surface; a good thing.

It seems on most planing powerboats the fore-aft center of gravity is 1/3 the total waterline length of the boat from the stern; 8 feet from the stern for a 24 ft boat. You COULD fairly easily check this with a sling onshore then use 5 gallon buckets with water to add weight forward until you achieve the proper "1/3" fore-aft weight balance, then decide what items in the boat (fuel tank/batteries) can be re-located to achieve proper balance.

Do the cheap/easy stuff first; raise the motor & check where your current center-of-gravity is located & how bad the imbalance is.

 

[noluck]

do you have pictures of it in sitting in the water with the engine trimmed all the way down?

 

[YachtMech]

These boats came from the factory with a bracket option. My buddy had one with a df225 on the back worked fine, did sit stern heavy compared to the old two smoker 225 though. The biggest issue is the weight in the back, the fuel tank in the rear is the flaw.

Not trying to agrue but are you certain about those coming with factory brackets? This model was built in the 80's and 90's and I dont think I can ever remeber seeing a campion from that era with a factory "pod" or extension bracket. I honestly cant remember any manufacturer offering that as an option any large scale production boat, they do now but thats only really been happing ln the last 10 years.

 

[Pineapple Express]

While we're all jumping in and giving lots of advice...those HPDI engines need the fuel to be perfectly clean. The engines have what are know as mystery filters that would be good preventative maintenance to change. There are lots of very detailed threads on The Hull Truth addressing these issues.

Here is one thread of many. Note that the 150/200 HPDI engines are different than the "big block" 250/300 HPDI. The 150/200s are also regarded to be more reliable.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/326167-mystery-filters-yamaha-hpdi-motors.html

 

[Revenge]

Not trying to agrue but are you certain about those coming with factory brackets? This model was built in the 80's and 90's and I dont think I can ever remeber seeing a campion from that era with a factory "pod" or extension bracket. I honestly cant remember any manufacturer offering that as an option any large scale production boat, they do now but thats only really been happing ln the last 10 years.

Cooper prowler 17' came with inboard or a bracketed 150 Suzuki back in the early 90's and they worked fine !

 

[YachtMech]

Cooper prowler 17' came with inboard or a bracketed 150 Suzuki back in the early 90's and they worked fine !

Interesting, I've never seen one of those before, I would assume they probably made the effort to get the balance correct, but maybe not as that boat is very uncommon now (try to find one now with a bracket ). That being said cooper did not produce many small boats, I think they were producing a few hundred power boats a year total, and they really focused on larger boats with inboards, and those are the ones that are still around, and then they were bought out by queenship?? if memory serves. But more to the point I was commenting on the market of mass production boats that were fitted with an outboard as standard, with the addition of a pod or bracket as an option. Also saying they worked fine is lacking a bit of context, as you would have to actually have to have some sort of comparison to justify that statement. It really comes down to the fact that if they worked fine you likely would have seen that larger manufactures would have followed suit and we would have seen brackets all over the place for the last 30 years.


simply put, everyone was transom mounting outboards rather than sticking them on brackets because it worked better, not saying pods or brackets cant work, but they were designed to help modify an inboard engine boat to an outboard as cheaply as possible. However the most correct way to convert a boat from inboard to outboard without moving weight around the vessel (ie moving fuel tank) is to add a hull extension.

 

[SpringVelocity]

So it’s been a while since I have been in my dads boat. Dad passed away and Now I have his boat. He got a pod installed on it since the last time I was in it. Now I notice the boat has a lot harder time getting on plane, when I come off plane it almost fully submerged the motor with water. I do not ever remember this problem when the motor was mounted on the transom. Even with a 200 hp it would be a hard time getting on plane with 4. I am thinking maybe I should get a different pitched prop or may some hydro foil.

Trim tabs and hydrofoil is what I would do myself. Those are both inexpensive to do. The fin does work especially for boats that do that.

Don't re-invent wheel and start getting new pod etc or dropping motors. Try those first as they are cheap and easy..

BTW that is 100 percent correct on small boats they never ride the same. Your shifting a lot of weight backwards. The only way you can counter this is with a true hull extension not a pod which is $$$$$.

 

[cracked_ribs]

I'd want to see a straight edge held against the keel to compare the motor depth against before offering any advice...if the motor depth is wrong, any money you spend changing or adding anything else is just setting it on fire.

Let's check the motor height before going any further.

 

[Doubleheader]

Not trying to agrue but are you certain about those coming with factory brackets? This model was built in the 80's and 90's and I dont think I can ever remeber seeing a campion from that era with a factory "pod" or extension bracket. I honestly cant remember any manufacturer offering that as an option any large scale production boat, they do now but thats only really been happing ln the last 10 years.

Positive. Buddy had a 95’ 215 explorer factory aluminum bracket with swim grid. He bought it brand new with a 95’ 200 yammie 2 smoker. Not a flotation pod just bracket similar to the one in question but with swim grid. The 215 fishing machine is identical to the 215 explorer. I believe they’re still using that same mould but perhaps are actually adding some glass to the stringers, I hope lol

 

[YachtMech]

Positive. Buddy had a 95’ 215 explorer factory aluminum bracket with swim grid. He bought it brand new with a 95’ 200 yammie 2 smoker. Not a flotation pod just bracket similar to the one in question but with swim grid. The 215 fishing machine is identical to the 215 explorer. I believe they’re still using that same mould but perhaps are actually adding some glass to the stringers, I hope lol

its likely they had moved things around, and they would have changed the transom structure, so the hull profile would be the same yes, but I would speculate that the weight placement and structure had been changed.

 

[Doubleheader]

its likely they had moved things around, and they would have changed the transom structure, so the hull profile would be the same yes, but I would speculate that the weight placement and structure had been changed.

Nope, fuel tank in same spot as my 92’ transom mount. Right in the rear. Fish holds same spot. Just a closed transom...

 

[YachtMech]

Nope, fuel tank in same spot as my 92’ transom mount. Right in the rear. Fish holds same spot. Just a closed transom...

I would assume that the full transom may have been to cut costs? possibly so the same mould could be used for inboards and then bolt on a bracket for outboards. I would assume there had been other changes between what Riptetide had and the ones that came from factory with a bracket. I cant speculate much further without seeing what changes were made, and Im not saying bracketed boats wont work they obviously did their homework to make them work well enough as OE product in this case. But I dont think its safe to assume what Riptetide has and what ones came after it are entirely the same, at least not to the point to assume it would behave the same with similar modifications. It does not seem that the "fishing machine" model ever came with a bracket, I havent been able to locate any info or even a picture of one.

I think Ive only seen a couple of the 90's campions with brackets, I always assumed they were aftermarket given the full transom, but I had never heard of the previous 80's models sporting the same fitment, thats what I was getting at when I asked to confirm what you stated.

I wonder if he could source the specs on the factory bracket for the explorers from campion, see what they did, and see where the math differs?

 

[Doubleheader]

I would assume that the full transom may have been to cut costs? possibly so the same mould could be used for inboards and then bolt on a bracket for outboards. I would assume there had been other changes between what Riptetide had and the ones that came from factory with a bracket. I cant speculate much further without seeing what changes were made, and Im not saying bracketed boats wont work they obviously did their homework to make them work well enough as OE product in this case. But I dont think its safe to assume what Riptetide has and what ones came after it are entirely the same, at least not to the point to assume it would behave the same with similar modifications. It does not seem that the "fishing machine" model ever came with a bracket, I havent been able to locate any info or even a picture of one.

I think Ive only seen a couple of the 90's campions with brackets, I always assumed they were aftermarket given the full transom, but I had never heard of the previous 80's models sporting the same fitment, thats what I was getting at when I asked to confirm what you stated.

I wonder if he could source the specs on the factory bracket for the explorers from campion, see what they did, and see where the math differs?

I don’t know how to make it any clearer, the only difference between the earlier 215 fishing machine and the 215 explorer is the stickers on the sides. I’ve gutted and rebuilt one and snooped around every model talking to others that have. Both vintages were foam filled east/west of primary stringers. They did seal the top of the foam somewhat but eventually it cracks letting moisture into the foam and eventually to the stern where it sits and starts eating at the stringers and transom. It’s possible there is some extra water weight sitting there adding to the heavy stern. There should have at least been some stringer drain holes into bilge, but I could go on for days about the flaws in their earlier construction.

 

[SpringVelocity]

That is another thing mentioned I wonder if the foam under your deck is waterlogged.

 

[sly_karma]

Not trying to agrue but are you certain about those coming with factory brackets? This model was built in the 80's and 90's and I dont think I can ever remeber seeing a campion from that era with a factory "pod" or extension bracket. I honestly cant remember any manufacturer offering that as an option any large scale production boat, they do now but thats only really been happing ln the last 10 years.

Olympic 21 WA and AK bulkhead hulls from early/mid 90s came stock with an Armstrong style bracket and a plain transom. Looks like the same mould as used for inboard version, although from what I've read the outboards sold better.

 

[YachtMech]

Olympic 21 WA and AK bulkhead hulls from early/mid 90s came stock with an Armstrong style bracket and a plain transom. Looks like the same mould as used for inboard version, although from what I've read the outboards sold better

yeah though the 90's as outboards became more accepted as the more reliable option they started making more sales. thats funny you bring up armstrong as an example, because if you call them for a smaller boat pod they will tell you that they dont recommend it for boats under 24', I actually had quite a hard time getting a pod ordered for a customer from them for a 23' saltypup, I had to find all the old specs to prove it was heavy for its size.

in the 30ish years ive been active on the water and in the marine industry I haven't personally seen many of the smaller bracketed boats, LIke I said above I have seen a handful, but most I assumed were aftermarked due to the full transom. Again this a statement about that paticular hull, with an outboard transom cut out having a bracket from factory, or any or any factory doing the same to a transom cut out boat, I should have been more clear about that.

but regardless, just because I dont remember doesnt mean they didnt exist lol, always up for new info.

 

[YachtMech]

I don’t know how to make it any clearer, the only difference between the earlier 215 fishing machine and the 215 explorer is the stickers on the sides. I’ve gutted and rebuilt one and snooped around every model talking to others that have. Both vintages were foam filled east/west of primary stringers. They did seal the top of the foam somewhat but eventually it cracks letting moisture into the foam and eventually to the stern where it sits and starts eating at the stringers and transom. It’s possible there is some extra water weight sitting there adding to the heavy stern. There should have at least been some stringer drain holes into bilge, but I could go on for days about the flaws in their earlier construction.

Its VERY common to see no limber holes in boats that had foam outboard of the stingers. Simply because they didn't want to let water in, but as we all know, water will go anywhere we dont want it lol. I litterally just added limber holes to the stringers in my boat to deal with that exact problem.

See if you can get a picture from your buddies boat, hopefully showing the bracket, may be able to also see if there is much difference in the length, Riptetide's bracket is quite long, it looks like the engine could be pulled in another 6" maybe the factory bracket was a bit shorter? even a few inches makes a difference , at least thats what the wife is saying.

 

[Doubleheader]

Its VERY common to see no limber holes in boats that had foam outboard of the stingers. Simply because they didn't want to let water in, but as we all know, water will go anywhere we dont want it lol. I litterally just added limber holes to the stringers in my boat to deal with that exact problem.

See if you can get a picture from your buddies boat, hopefully showing the bracket, may be able to also see if there is much difference in the length, Riptetide's bracket is quite long, it looks like the engine could be pulled in another 6" maybe the factory bracket was a bit shorter? even a few inches makes a difference , at least thats what the wife is saying.

He sold it years ago, it hung pretty far back though. There was always a couple hundred pounds of boom chain in the bow lol. This is the only pic of the rig I can find.

 

[YachtMech]

He sold it years ago, it hung pretty far back though. There was always a couple hundred pounds of boom chain in the bow lol. This is the only pic of the rig I can find.

lol damn yeah that doesn't really give any perspective. a couple hundred pounds of chain in the bow would make a world of difference, it would be like moving the fuel tank 4-6 ft lol