Gun Control in US and Canada

If you have access to any deadly weapons (In the spirit of Christmas), I hope you go back on your medication.

And that my friend, is the issue, access to things that can hurt people who have not had adequate mental health treatment. Still not going to ensure no mass shootings, but it's a start.

Lorne, don't lump in Homolka, et al. with mass shootings, not even close. They used rope. Rope can do so damage but can't take out 26 people in 30 minutes
 
And that my friend, is the issue, access to things that can hurt people who have not had adequate mental health treatment. Still not going to ensure no mass shootings, but it's a start.

Lorne, don't lump in Homolka, et al. with mass shootings, not even close. They used rope. Rope can do so damage but can't take out 26 people in 30 minutes

True, but my point was that crazies are crazies and will kill lots of people regardless. Yet regardless of how many people are killed or how they are killed, if a gun is involved the first thing out of peoples mouth's is more gun control. A pump shot gun that can hold 1 in the chamber and 2 in tube (standard) could easily kill 26 people in 30mins.
 
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A pump shot gun that can hold 1 in the chamber and 2 in tube (standard) could easily kill 26 people in 30mins.



if that were true, the military would have saved billions by simply sticking with old technology. rapid fire, low recoil, semi-automatic long guns with extended magazines were designed for this exact purpose. no citizen needs access to this sort of firepower. legitimate hunting weapons are deadly but not in the same manner and no one is thinking about banning firearms used for this sort of purpose.
 
“The price of freedom is eternal vigilance”.

Supposed to have been uttered by Thomas Jefferson, but a Google search reveals that variants of this phrase came up in speeches and writings of earlier notables.

Anyway many of the arguments in the U.S. for free and unfettered access to any type of weapon stem from this idea and from the paranoid corollary that the citizenry have to arm themselves against the possibility of a “corrupt government”.
Leaving aside the whole rule of law argument and who decides an armed uprising is ”necessary” the inconvenient fact is society and its monitoring and controls will always be imperfect.

Some mentally unstable people will always escape notice. Some stupid and unthinking people will store dangerous weapons, where they can easily be accessed. It is impossible to provide 100% security in all public places and in all situations. Therefore in a societal culture where millions of lethal weapons are “sloshing around” in an inevitably imperfect world, I believe this phrase should be rewritten.

The price of freedom is eternal massacres”.

Only if the U.S. ever comes to the realisation that “freedom” to own weapons of any type comes at a very high price of the slaughter of the innocents will that stupidly blind and idealistic interpretation of freedom get the treatment it deserves.
 
The Phoenix news yesterday said that gun and ammo sales in Arizona are up by over 300% since the schools shooting. 233(?) bullets for assault rifles are sold out everywhere and that there is a major delay in processing hand gun permits. A permit last month took under one day to process and today it’s over 10 days because there are so many applications in the last week. The reason for the gun/ammo rush is people are scared that some kind of gun and ammo control will be implemented.
 
Liberals Panic As They Lose the Gun Narrative
When you argue for a living, you can tell how an argument is going for you. The evidence and my gut both tell me that the liberals have lost control of the gun control narrative. Not for lack of trying – it was almost as if they were poised to leap into action across the political, media and cultural spectrum the second the next semi-human creep shot up another “gun free zone.” This was their big opening to shift the debate and now it’s closing. They’ve lost, and they are going nuts.


The evidence is all around that this is not going to be the moment where America begins a slide into disarmed submission through an endless series of ever-harsher “reasonable restrictions” on our fundamental rights. You just have to look past the shrieking media harpies to see what’s really happening.
Let’s start with the most obvious omen that this tsunami has peaked. President Obama thrilled his base by grandstanding at the memorial, and then promptly washed his hands of it by handing it over to a “blue ribbon commission.” Making Joe Biden its chairman was like staking a vampire through the heart, then hosing him down with holy water before burying his body beneath the Gilroy Garlic Festival. .


Why does Obama want this gun thing buried? While intensely popular with metrosexual pundits, coastal liberals, and cultural bigots slobbering at the opportunity to stick it to those banjo –strummin’, God-believers out in the hinterlands, gun control remains poison to Red State Democrats.
Joe Manchin of West Virginia couldn’t resist some sanctimonious posturing, but clearly he heard enough from his constituents to sprint-back his heresy with a WaPo op-ed explaining how awesome the NRA is and how groovy gun owners are. He will never take sides against the family again.


We didn’t see the Red State Democrats up for re-election in two years out dumping on their constituents to please the media. Call it “the Fredo Effect,” and 2014 is the rowboat. We won’t hear from the likes of Senators Landrieu, Pryor and Begich until they vote “No.”
Sure, Senator Feinstein will submit her gun ban wish list to Harry Reid, who will look at it sagely, nod politely, and let it die. He’s more Tom Hagen than Fredo. He is going to retain the NRA “A” rating his website proudly showcases regardless of what Chuck Schumer thinks. What gets you hosannas in Manhattan gets you unemployed in Searchlight.


So, the politicians’ actions have spoken louder than their words, but what of the media? We lawyers always say that when your case is strong, pound on the law and the evidence, and when your case is weak, pound on the table. The furniture is splintering in Liberalland.
Their post-Newtown strategy was always to prevent an effective response from the pro-gun freedom side by both rapid action and by demonization. But the holidays and the kabuki theater that is the fiscal cliff drama meant that legislative action, their Holy Grail, would have to wait. That gave people time to think and the gun freedom side the time to react.


Demonizing those who support gun freedom was always intended as a weapon to silence them. It was also critical that we, law-abiding gun owners, become the Other. By dehumanizing us and painting us as evil, it is that much easier to strip us of our rights.


But gun freedom advocates fought back. Using the mainstream media, conservative media and especially social media – we need to understand its huge significance here – gun freedom advocates countered liberals’ bogus “facts.” Media reports about “automatic” weapons were corrected, clownish statements about “high caliber magazines” and “large capacity round” were mocked. The struggle raged over millions of Facebook posts. The average citizen saw gun banners ask “When will America control access to weapons?” and then saw several experts among his or her friends post about the significant hurdles one needs to get over to get a gun. Truth bypassed the mainstream media and became a weapon for the side of fundamental rights.
The banners overplayed their hand, losing credibility with every distortion, evasion and smear. The cries of “Blood is on your hands!” failed to resonate – reasonable Americans just did not blame the actions of a single sociopath on millions of their fellow neighbors. And it did not help when third-string celebrities and wizened literary has-beens took to hoping gun rights advocates would be shot for daring to oppose disarmament.


The gun banners also counted on a narrative that portrayed a respect for the Second Amendment. They sought only “reasonable restrictions” – why, no one wants to ban or confiscate your guns! The problem was one of memo distribution – not everybody got that memo. Mayor Bloomberg was putting out that what few guns he might graciously deign to leave in the hands of the unworthy would be starved of bullets, while Governor Cuomo acknowledged that confiscation was one of the options.
Oops. “Gun control” is a process that is designed and intended to lead to a total gun ban, and the banners are counting on people not realizing it.
Their credibility and motives already in question, the gun banners became vulnerable to a shift in the paradigm from depriving law-abiding citizens of effective defensive weapons to the idea of protecting kids with armed personnel in schools.


Suddenly, the gun banners had to argue two ridiculous positions. The first was that allowing trained educators or police having weapons in schools is a danger. The problem is that people generally like and trust teachers and cops. The second position was even worse, that armed personnel or police are somehow utterly useless against untrained, amateur creeps who seek to confront six-year olds. All over America, millions of parents noted how none of the wealthy gun banners were disbanding their personal security teams and thought, “You know, I think I’d like having a cop around my kid too.”
Frustration at the fact that their argument had not been unquestioningly accepted morphed into faux moral outrage that their opponents had dared offer any alternative proposal at all. E.J. Dionne of the WaPo was a prime example. He had to “grope for words to describe the National Rifle Association’s proposal,” yet he managed to find some: “Absurd, unbelievable, tragic, obscene,” as well as “insane.”
Note that Dionne’s righteous fury does not apply to the armed guards at the Post’s front door, surrounding President Obama, or to anywhere else other than in the vicinity of regular people’s children.


Particularly amusing are the liberals who transform into green eyeshades misers with the public purse when it comes to cops in schools. The folks who can’t spend enough dough on fudge-smeared, patriarchy-challenging performance artists suddenly become thrifty Scotsmen when it comes to doling out a few shillings to put a cop on campus.


They have been unable to articulate any coherent argument opposing putting cops in schools because there is no coherent argument against putting cops in schools. But more than anything, the mommies at the affluent Los Angeles-area school my kids attend have convinced me that the narrative has escaped the gun grabbers.


Knowing our reputations as proud conservatives – we represent diversity for our liberal friends – a pal of my wife remarked, out of the blue, that “I think my husband and I need to buy guns.” Whoa.
And as third graders sang holiday songs at their pageant while I surveyed the packed, vulnerable room, I blurted out to another mommy that I wished I could legally carry a weapon to protect those kids. And she told me that she wished that I could too. Whoa.
Gun banners, you lost the President, the senators, the social media, and now you’ve lost liberal LA mommies. You’ve lost everything. Again.

http://townhall.com/columnists/kurts...1473885/page/2
 
Gun sales across the country have hit record highs. And 30-60 round clips are sold out eveywhere... And the few places that do have them they are going for quadruple the price. I am a member of a back packing and Duckhunting forum that are both 95% yanks and its unreal...

Lorne
 
Gun sales across the country have hit record highs. And 30-60 round clips are sold out eveywhere...
Lorne

And this makes you happy or sad? just asking?
GLG
 
i was watching a 2 hour special on the Vietnam war. funny thing was all of those AR-16s had 10 round clips. makes me wonder when the extended magazines were introduced. Iraq??
 
Out of necessity they were taping two magazines together facing opposite ways.

i was watching a 2 hour special on the Vietnam war. funny thing was all of those AR-16s had 10 round clips. makes me wonder when the extended magazines were introduced. Iraq??
 
As an avid hunter and a concerned firearm advocate..In BC..at the bottom of the page in this thread....there was a bodatiuos gal,,,(hooters)...I would much prefer looking at her than hear all the retorick of firearms and there problems in the USA...We need to look after our problems first...god knows we have enough...just my opinion.
 
This is scary....This guy has millions of followers that believe what he says...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-tsHlDviuA

That guy reminded me of Piers in Piers first debate with the NRA guy. He says alot of things that make sense IMO but the way he conveys his message makes him look brutal as he comes across as an extremist ( and he is the last 3 mins of the interview discredits everything). Looks like Piers learned a thing or 2.
 
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Ya, i saw Alex Jones on CNN last night. I've seen a few of his podcasts as well. While I do appreciate people who are skeptical and question authority he is pretty damn wacko in his conclusions. Lot's of people out there listening to him though as you mention. Very scary indeed if you happen to take his every word literally.
This is scary....This guy has millions of followers that believe what he says...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-tsHlDviuA
 
Ya, i saw Alex Jones on CNN last night. I've seen a few of his podcasts as well. While I do appreciate people who are skeptical and question authority he is pretty damn wacko in his conclusions. Lot's of people out there listening to him though as you mention. Very scary indeed if you happen to take his every word literally.

We agree!

[P_NpxTWbovE] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_NpxTWbovE
 
That guy reminded me of Piers in Piers first debate with the NRA guy. He says alot of things that make sense IMO but the way he conveys his message makes him look brutal as he comes across as an extremist ( and he is the last 3 mins of the interview discredits everything). Looks like Piers learned a thing or 2.

Lorne,

This guy does not "come across" as an extremist. He IS an extremist. And he says absolutely nothing that makes sense.

The load, shouting rant, the arm waving and constant "stabbing" motion with his hands, the constant changing of the subject and refusal to answer questions or engage in rational debate. All are the mark of a bully.

I had to wince when he talked about Hitler. He has obviously never seen the pictures of the Nuremburg rally. The same screaming ranting tone, the eye bulging, the same emphatic hand and arm movement. History has proven dangerous looney's can hold millions of people in their thrall and this guy is no different.

He uses the same quasi-religious language. The American People and the "HerrenVolk". The so-called despotic government that plotted 911 and the "jewish conspiracy". The "enemies within". The parallels are all there.

And in what universe is a human made law "sacrosanct"? He is again appealing to the religious gene in people that love "the holy word" handed down from on high to ancient prophets that is forever true and can never be questioned or changed.

A truly very dangerous man that millions of people follow, just like Hitler he is so fond of quoting.....
 
Did you miss Pier's first interview? cause he looked alot like the guy yelling and shouting...

[_we43-q7C7g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_we43-q7C7g
 
Did you miss Pier's first interview? cause he looked alot like the guy yelling and shouting...

[_we43-q7C7g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_we43-q7C7g

Lorne,

Piers got into some foolish name calling. But to compare him to the bug eyed rants of that Jones guy and his wild conspiracy theories misses my point entirely.
There is no comparison between a foolish interviewer and an outright dangerous demagogue!!
 
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