Fishermen. Tune into the Leaders debate this evening.

http://www.taxtips.ca/statistics/bcdebt.htm

Are you saying Debt levels have improved in the last while? I am simply pointing out a FACT that BC's debt (any way you cut it) has gotten significantly worse in the past decade. This has occurred under the NDP leadership in the late 90's and the more recently (and more substantially) under the Liberal leadership. Comprende?

"FACT" - as in ...." I read it on an NDP Website so it must be true"
 
When the NDP formed government in 1991, the provincial debt was $20 billion. In 2001, the year the Liberals got into power, there was an operational $1.2-billion surplus and a debt of $33.8 billion. In other words, after a decade of NDP rule, the provincial debt increased by $13.8 billion.

The biggest deficits in BC’s history were recorded during the decade of the Liberals’ governance.

On the debt front, the Liberals' record is very scary. In 2011, the traditional debt on the books is $53.4 billion—that is, an increase of $19.6 billion in the years after they formed government. It’s 42 percent higher than the NDP government's debt increase in the 1990s.

Nevertheless, behind the image of adroit fiscal management, the Liberals have another ledger that they’re unwilling to account for. The debt load in this ledger is a staggering $80.2 billion!

It’s because the Liberal government has been using the P3 (public-private partnership) model instead of the traditional approach for financing their capital-spending projects (building bridges, roads, hospitals, etc.).

In the traditional model, the cost of construction is borrowed by the government, so it’s defined as debt and must be reported in the budget this way.

Since the government can borrow at a much lower interest rate than the private sector, its cost is less compared to proceeding with a P3.

Under the P3 model, the government still needs to pay for capital projects, but this payment is defined as a “contractual obligation” and not debt. As a result, this enormous “contractual obligation” (in fact, debt) is not shown in the B.C. budget.

http://www.straight.com/news/gabriel-yiu-gordon-campbells-100-billion-legacy
 
Again finaddict, please tell me where I am wrong in saying the BC's debt level has worsened in the past decade or so? Just because CC says she and liberals are fiscally responsible doesn't make it so. I am not saying the NDP are fiscally responsible either. I am saying they have both run up the debt for BC lately, moreso the liberals in recent years. If that is up for debate, please debate. Otherwise, stop posting snotty little remarks like the one you did above to try to discredit my statement which I've supported with ample links to.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...e-talking-about-bcs-debt-load/article4247786/
 
Thats why we pay a Toll everytime we go over the Port Mann Bridge and will soon be paying considerably More in our Hydro Rates. Either way its another tax in a different form
When the NDP formed government in 1991, the provincial debt was $20 billion. In 2001, the year the Liberals got into power, there was an operational $1.2-billion surplus and a debt of $33.8 billion. In other words, after a decade of NDP rule, the provincial debt increased by $13.8 billion.

The biggest deficits in BC’s history were recorded during the decade of the Liberals’ governance.

On the debt front, the Liberals' record is very scary. In 2011, the traditional debt on the books is $53.4 billion—that is, an increase of $19.6 billion in the years after they formed government. It’s 42 percent higher than the NDP government's debt increase in the 1990s.

Nevertheless, behind the image of adroit fiscal management, the Liberals have another ledger that they’re unwilling to account for. The debt load in this ledger is a staggering $80.2 billion!

It’s because the Liberal government has been using the P3 (public-private partnership) model instead of the traditional approach for financing their capital-spending projects (building bridges, roads, hospitals, etc.).

In the traditional model, the cost of construction is borrowed by the government, so it’s defined as debt and must be reported in the budget this way.

Since the government can borrow at a much lower interest rate than the private sector, its cost is less compared to proceeding with a P3.

Under the P3 model, the government still needs to pay for capital projects, but this payment is defined as a “contractual obligation” and not debt. As a result, this enormous “contractual obligation” (in fact, debt) is not shown in the B.C. budget.

http://www.straight.com/news/gabriel-yiu-gordon-campbells-100-billion-legacy
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sorry but this is the wrong place to argue about fossil fuels with the amount of gas that gets burnt by the members of this forum...... just sayin'

I think this is a great place to discuss it. My opinion comes from the Green party stance. Because the libs and NDP is all just talk anyway. The Greens are not against development of our natural resources. And if they were, its a machine that can't really be stopped anyway.

Point 1) Like David Suzuki, the greens feel that our resources are owned by and should be used by Canadians. Why do we ship our oil around the world and import oil from around the world? It only makes sense to the corporations that are profiting from it. **** on China. Get it somewhere else.

Point 2) Green energy companies worldwide are dying to do business in Canada. We are talking about great jobs and new opportunities to become a world leader in renewable energy (geothermal/ wind power). You know the future. What seems futuristic to us is old news in Germany, Japan, UK, Denmark, Netherlands, US, Australia, NZ. The Canadian and BC government make it impossible for these green companies to do business here. Your leaders don't want them here. The orders come from the top. Red tape galore and projects blocked. Instead our government is 100% focussed on maintaining the status quo (gas n oil). We have missed the boat on this one. Our economy and our environment has and will continue to pay dearly for it.



Point 3) The Greens are not against Gas and oil, rather they feel that they must be extracted in a responsible manner. If that is not possible, then it doesn't get extracted.

Part 4) Companies that are extracting our resources will no longer have a free running fast track to dig and run without paying tax like the rest of us. Currently they are being rewarded with your tax dollars as they make billions. And dirty companies will be penalized paying high taxes. Call it the dirty tax. That higher tax will be then used to reward clean companies that offer solutions. Right now the polluters are being rewarded.

Now doesnt that sound like real progress? Or should we get back to discussing Premier Clark running a red light?


6a00d8341c565553ef0153940e0864970b-500wi.jpg
 
100% agreed on the last fleury of posts. So I ask again, how is it possible that able minded people continue to vote for these criminals? Its just scary to think that mankind is so ignorant.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Again finaddict, please tell me where I am wrong in saying the BC's debt level has worsened in the past decade or so? Just because CC says she and liberals are fiscally responsible doesn't make it so. I am not saying the NDP are fiscally responsible either. I am saying they have both run up the debt for BC lately, moreso the liberals in recent years. If that is up for debate, please debate. Otherwise, stop posting snotty little remarks like the one you did above to try to discredit my statement which I've supported with ample links to.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...e-talking-about-bcs-debt-load/article4247786/
Geez Tin Can if you were really attempting to legitimize the quote you may have wanted to include the author at the end of the news article you copied

here is the author identity at the end of the article which you somehow neglected to include.....(and I quote)

Gabriel Yiu is a small businessperson and a former NDP candidate in Vancouver-Fraserview

If you want to have people take your comments seriously, please do a better job of quoting non partisan articles ratherthan articles from NDP Hacks. I guess my "snotty little remark" has some merit after all.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Carbon taxes are a joke. One small volcano erupting puts more carbon in the atmosphere in one day than mankind in 10 years, fact. Its a cash grab plain in simple, research it and make up your own mind. Liberals attempt to stifle Andrea Mortin's evidence about the ISA epidemic caused by the fish farms with Don MacRaes Bill 37 which would have made it illegal to let people know when fish or animals were unfit to eat, gee i wonder who he is working for ? I think it was is enough reason for me not to vote for the liberals not to mention the 200 rivers they gave to private companies and ex MLA's which they are destroying. Liberals are owned controlled and financed by mega corporations, period and they work towards ensuring they profit ! The fast ferries what a load of BS the liberals fed everyone. They gave them away for political points against the ndp. They could have been made to work but Campbell choose to sell us out on that for political bonus points to Denis Washington who sold them for multi millions how obvious was that but people still bring it up. Is pale in comparison to what they did with BC rail. Who sold out the forest industry and are responsible for multiple sawmill pulp mill closures as a direct result,re raw log exports to international mega corps.....liberals again. Vote liberal and kiss BC goodbye as we will be sold out to the mega corps. Funny how they deflect questions about selling BC Hydro another reason. Liberals, millionaires telling me I make too much money and have it too good so when exactly do they have too much and have it too good ! My kids have 35 kids in their classes and plastic chairs in the classroom.... they are selling schools at fire sale prices to developers who make millions ! People are blind !! Its irrelevant what a government did 15 years ago it is today and tomorrow that matter !

I do believe that you will have to do some more fact checking on this point for sure!

It was in fact the NDP gov. that changed the forestry sector for the worse to form what we now have today!

The big timber companies, in order to have access to our crown land timbers, had to own and operate sawmills withing a reasonable distance to the tenured timber stands, (this was to create employment opportunities throughout our province). The NDP just before the end of their last reign, changed the wording in the written laws, and the large timber companies no longer needed to have the sawmills in order to harvest and export the timber. One only needs to travel the island to see the results (well you will have to talk to the long term residents, because, well,,,, the sawmills are completely gone now in many of our communities.) Visit Youbo, Chemainus, Nanaimo, Port Alberni, Courtenay, Campbell River, this all adds up to a lot of jobs across the island, and yes we have the NDP to thank for this! Guess what, most of these communities have seen tax increases because of the loss of major industry tax payers, that payed large tax bills to the communities in order to do business there, and because they were there, so were many other support businesses that also payed their fair share, but lots of them are also gone now. ALL THANKS TO THE F'N NDP!
I find it truly amazing how soon people forget the happenings of the past - or do most choose to selectively remember?
 
I do believe that you will have to do some more fact checking on this point for sure!

It was in fact the NDP gov. that changed the forestry sector for the worse to form what we now have today!

The big timber companies, in order to have access to our crown land timbers, had to own and operate sawmills withing a reasonable distance to the tenured timber stands, (this was to create employment opportunities throughout our province). The NDP just before the end of their last reign, changed the wording in the written laws, and the large timber companies no longer needed to have the sawmills in order to harvest and export the timber. One only needs to travel the island to see the results (well you will have to talk to the long term residents, because, well,,,, the sawmills are completely gone now in many of our communities.) Visit Youbo, Chemainus, Nanaimo, Port Alberni, Courtenay, Campbell River, this all adds up to a lot of jobs across the island, and yes we have the NDP to thank for this! Guess what, most of these communities have seen tax increases because of the loss of major industry tax payers, that payed large tax bills to the communities in order to do business there, and because they were there, so were many other support businesses that also payed their fair share, but lots of them are also gone now. ALL THANKS TO THE F'N NDP!
I find it truly amazing how soon people forget the happenings of the past - or do most choose to selectively remember?

i worked in the forest industry back then(ndp days) had to go to work in alberta for 2 years....so im not too keen on ndp! The liberals at least want to open up mining(used to be our number 1 money maker for bc) logging, and oil and gas! that create s jobs and revenue, ndp want to spend money and have a deficiet right off the bat! i personally dont think that is good for our province, and could possibly take us back into a recession like we had back in the 90s....to bad ralph kline is retired....hes the only premier ever in canada that only just had a grade 12 diploma, and nothing more....a people s man!.....thats what we need here...just my opinion....regardzzz
 
i worked in the forest industry back then(ndp days) had to go to work in alberta for 2 years....so im not too keen on ndp! The liberals at least want to open up mining(used to be our number 1 money maker for bc) logging, and oil and gas! that create s jobs and revenue, ndp want to spend money and have a deficiet right off the bat! i personally dont think that is good for our province, and could possibly take us back into a recession like we had back in the 90s....to bad ralph kline is retired....hes the only premier ever in canada that only just had a grade 12 diploma, and nothing more....a people s man!.....thats what we need here...just my opinion....regardzzz

I agree with you on your points. But Ralph Klein is a little more than retired these days.
 
On the effectiveness of the carbon tax: (unpopular but is actually accomplishing what it was intended to do)

"Economist Alexander Woods studied B.C.'s carbon tax for the Ottawa-based research group Sustainable Prosperity.

He found that since the carbon tax was introduced, carbon emissions and fossil fuel consumption have dropped more in B.C. than anywhere else in Canada by a significant margin.

"What we've seen in B.C., based on the data collected by the federal government is a decline in emissions…that outstrips the kind of emissions we've seen in the rest of Canada," said Woods.

In his report published last year, he found per capita fossil fuel consumption was down in B.C. by 15.1 percent between 2008 and 2011.
B.C. Votes 2013 How do your views fit into B.C.'s political landscape?

And Woods says preliminary numbers from Statistics Canada show a 17 per cent reduction in per capita fossil fuel consumption in B.C. since the carbon tax was introduced in 2008.

Woods says there can be no mistake why B.C. is leading the country in reducing our dependence on gas and other fossil fuels."


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/04/23/bc-reality-check-carbon-tax.html

Unfortunately you are missing one key factor in that evaluation.. We also pay more for fuel than anywhere else in Canada. That is why there is a decrease if in reality any at all. The biggest issue with any of the research represented nowadays is that they never include all the variables, and the news will always leave out facts to make it more sensational. Lets face it, reporters are the only ones in the world who claim to have extensive knowledge on every profession and topic in the world.. Other than Clarke lol!!!
 
I do believe that you will have to do some more fact checking on this point for sure!

It was in fact the NDP gov. that changed the forestry sector for the worse to form what we now have today!

The big timber companies, in order to have access to our crown land timbers, had to own and operate sawmills withing a reasonable distance to the tenured timber stands, (this was to create employment opportunities throughout our province). The NDP just before the end of their last reign, changed the wording in the written laws, and the large timber companies no longer needed to have the sawmills in order to harvest and export the timber. One only needs to travel the island to see the results (well you will have to talk to the long term residents, because, well,,,, the sawmills are completely gone now in many of our communities.) Visit Youbo, Chemainus, Nanaimo, Port Alberni, Courtenay, Campbell River, this all adds up to a lot of jobs across the island, and yes we have the NDP to thank for this! Guess what, most of these communities have seen tax increases because of the loss of major industry tax payers, that payed large tax bills to the communities in order to do business there, and because they were there, so were many other support businesses that also payed their fair share, but lots of them are also gone now. ALL THANKS TO THE F'N NDP!
I find it truly amazing how soon people forget the happenings of the past - or do most choose to selectively remember?


You are absolutelt correct, but the liberals ran with that and opened the door further.
Here are a few examples.
The BC Liberal government in general has supported and defended the large scale liquidation of old-growth forests across most of BC, deregulated numerous forestry laws that protected the environment and jobs, facilitated the massive expansion of raw log exports to foreign mills, and oversaw the net demise of over 30,000 BC forestry jobs and the closure of over 70 mills in BC.

Some policies and positions they’ve undertaken:

Supported and defended the continued large-scale liquidation of old-growth forests across most of BC.
Have repeatedly engaged in PR-spin to make it seem that old-growth forests are not endangered. They have repeatedly included millions of hectares in their PR stats of marginal, low productivity old-growth forests of stunted trees in bogs, on rocky slopes, and at high altitudes generally of non-commercial value, along with the productive old-growth stands (ie. the “ancient forests”) of commercial value, to inflate the statistics of remaining old-growth forests.
Deregulated vast areas of forest lands on Vancouver Island and the Sunshine Coast by removing Tree Farm Licences from corporate private forest lands. This resulted in the removal of Old-Growth Management Areas, Ungulate Winter Ranges, and Wildlife Habitat Areas that formerly protected old-growth forests, many of which are now being logged. It also resulted in the removal of prohibitions against real estate development and raw log exports on those lands.
Have opened up scenic protections, known as Visual Quality Objectives, in vast regions of the province that protected old-growth and mature forests for the tourism industry.
Are proposing to open up Old-Growth Management Areas, Wildlife Habitat Areas, Ungulate Winter Ranges, Recreation Areas, and Visual Quality Objectives in the Central Interior for logging.
Vastly increased the Allowable Annual Cut, the total harvest level for BC, to vastly unsustainable rates at almost 80 million cubic metres per year over the past decade.
Issued countless log export permits from Crown forest lands, so that today almost 6 million cubic metres of raw logs are being exported to foreign mills. They have ignored their own advisory committee’s advice, the Timber Exports Advisory Committee, to not allow the export of raw logs from northern Vancouver Island but instead to ensure they go to BC sawmills.
The weakened forest practices regulations on both Crown and private forest lands.
Within BC’s 95 million hectares of land, they did substantially increase old-growth protections in a roughly 8 million hectare portions of the coast. In the Central and North Coast, Haida Gwaii, and Squamish District, they expanded old-growth protections significantly through new Provincial Conservancies, as well as regulatory protections in the Central and North Coast and Haida Gwaii. This was done under First Nations pressure and threat of boycotts by Greenpeace and ForestEthics in international markets.
They have created regulatory protections on about 2 million hectares of high elevation mountain caribou habitat, much of which is of low or no commercial value, but also excluded much of the low elevation forests from protection.
They’ve continued establishing Old-Growth Management Areas (OGMA’s) through land use planning processes as originally established by the NDP government of the 1990’s. However, they dragged out these processes for over a decade, allowing prime old-growth forests to be logged in the meantime. Much of these Old-Growth Management Areas have been placed within existing parks, in low productivity old-growth forests, and the designation itself in some regions has loopholes that allows for forest destruction to continue within some OGMA’s.
Personally i wouldn't vote for either of them especially now that the NDP are flipflopping on the ISA virus and doing anything about it. I think their latest is that they will support whatever dfo decides and does and that is nothing and more of the same. Both parties have the same masters and are bought and paid for.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Unfortunately you are missing one key factor in that evaluation.. We also pay more for fuel than anywhere else in Canada. That is why there is a decrease if in reality any at all. The biggest issue with any of the research represented nowadays is that they never include all the variables, and the news will always leave out facts to make it more sensational. Lets face it, reporters are the only ones in the world who claim to have extensive knowledge on every profession and topic in the world.. Other than Clarke lol!!!

That is exactly how carbon taxes work. They make polluting activities more expensive and thus give incentive to pollute less. You either support that or you don't but the results are clear that they work to reduce carbon pollution.
 
Christy Clark was by far better speaker but when it came to the issues and questions she dodged more than Dix...they both did but she had a lot more to dodge about as the Liberal record is abysmal.
Pippen I know you won't like this but I have to agree with Dave.

And what the Liberals are letting BC Ferries get away with is a joke. I can only hope a new party will step in and make changes to the way the ferries are operated.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
After listening to the leaders( ? )debate, I would like another choice please....:(

Agreed!

I'm voting green to make a statement. I don't expect them to win my riding, but I hope the other parties pay attention to the fact that more and more are voting green. We care about our environment! So should they.
 
Agreed!

I'm voting green to make a statement. I don't expect them to win my riding, but I hope the other parties pay attention to the fact that more and more are voting green. We care about our environment! So should they.

Dave S, I don't know what riding your in, but your green vote may actually put a green candidate in the legislature. They actually have a really good chance of winning many ridings. You never know until election day though. The greens directed their limited resources (non corporate) towards only the ridings they have a chance to win. Example: my candidate Carlos Serra has a budget of $500 for his campaign against current NDP energy critic and seasoned pro John Horgan. He held his own in the local debate, but realistically, does't have a chance of winning? All I heard in that debate was "i'm going to have to agree with the green candidate" from the other parties.

Susan Low in Esquimalt Juan de fuca has huge support and an excellent chance of winning her riding.

Party leader Jane Sterk has balls of steel and great support going up against Carole James in Victoria Beacon hill. David and goliath story there.

Branko Mustafovic in Saanich South has huge support.

Andrew Weaver is far ahead in the sign campaign for Oak bay Gordon Head. Signs on peoples lawns, not on the road.

I'm not familiar with whats going on in other areas, but Jody Emery has star power and should do well in Vancouver West End
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's all about stopping enbridge!!

There is one overriding, once in a generation fork in the road that must, and will, determine how we all vote this time around. And that is the Enbridge Northern Gateway bitumen pipeline. The ecological damage to our watersheds, rivers and coasts to build and operate that pipeline are staggering. And when the inevitable disaster happens with one of those tankers proceeding through the “fourth most dangerous stretch of water in the world” the destruction of our coastal fisheries that will ensue will make all the damage wrought by the salmon feed lot industry seem like a pic-nic in comparison. Just at a look at Prince William Sound 20+ years on, and what happened in the Gulf!! This kind of tanker disaster WILL happen, even if it is not in the lifetime of some of us on here. Human fallibility will ensure that. So even if we get lucky in the first few years, this pipeline proposal is the classic example of sticking it to the next generation. Any fishermen on this forum, and anyone who’s business is even remotely connected to tourism MUST, in all good conscience, vote in accordance with preventing that pipeline going through. And anyone who cares about passing on to their children and grandchildren the bounty and beauty of the BC Coast and the same incredibly rich fisheries and wildlife populations we have enjoyed, will also be guided by their conscience and vote against that monstrous pipeline!!
 
There is one overriding, once in a generation fork in the road that must, and will, determine how we all vote this time around. And that is the Enbridge Northern Gateway bitumen pipeline. The ecological damage to our watersheds, rivers and coasts to build and operate that pipeline are staggering. And when the inevitable disaster happens with one of those tankers proceeding through the “fourth most dangerous stretch of water in the world” the destruction of our coastal fisheries that will ensue will make all the damage wrought by the salmon feed lot industry seem like a pic-nic in comparison. Just at a look at Prince William Sound 20+ years on, and what happened in the Gulf!! This kind of tanker disaster WILL happen, even if it is not in the lifetime of some of us on here. Human fallibility will ensure that. So even if we get lucky in the first few years, this pipeline proposal is the classic example of sticking it to the next generation. Any fishermen on this forum, and anyone who’s business is even remotely connected to tourism MUST, in all good conscience, vote in accordance with preventing that pipeline going through. And anyone who cares about passing on to their children and grandchildren the bounty and beauty of the BC Coast and the same incredibly rich fisheries and wildlife populations we have enjoyed, will also be guided by their conscience and vote against that monstrous pipeline!!

100% Agreed. Enbridge is a horrible company with a horrifying record of incompetence. They have a haliburton "do what we like and pay off the right people" attitude. If anyone thinks that a dollar of that money will help you. Your dead wrong. The only impact this pipeline will have on Joe taxpayer is that your tax dollars will be paying to clean up the spill. Cause thats how big oil corporations work.
 
Dix has not said he will ban Gateway-he changed his and the Party's stance to "made in B.C. assessment" whatever that means- doesn't sound much different to Clarks position!LOL
 
Back
Top