falcon1
Member
So... lures can be used anywhere?
Friends of the Cowichan want you off their river
- Thread starter searun
- Start date
swashplate
Member
The Cowichan runs 49.1 rkm. The fly only section is 6.4 rkm. Clearly, most of the river is fly only as you say.
Cut Plug
Well-Known Member
The Cowichan salmon runs are in "serious decline"? Are you guys for real?
Here's last years final fence counts:
Preliminary final fence count:
2407 adult chinook
1584 jack chinook
10476 adult coho
903 jack coho
47 chum
968 pink/unknowns
2011 status - Chinook - increasing from a low of 500 in 2008; Coho - a historic record escapement through the fence, typical escapement has been around 3,000; Pinks - likely introduced thrrough the net pen program but there has been a historic run on the river so lets see what happens; Chum - the fence doesn't capture many but the escapement at around 150,000 is considered stable.
Based on the facts rather than legend, it appears that the Cowichan is actually on a strong rebuilding trend, not declining as suggested earlier in the thread. I believe this has happened through driving the ocean harvest rate down as far as possible, but mainly through the serious habitat rehab efforts of the various parties involved to fix Stolzes Slide, lower river sloughs etc along with some creative release strategies implemented by the hatchery. For crying out loud folks, give credit where its due!
IMO the idea that under the current suite of regulations, that recreational fishing is having any measurable impact on salmon populations is ridiculous. The effort simoly isn't there, and a huge portion of the river is closed to all forms of angling until Nov 15th. Even after that, the effort is negligible until steelhead season. It appears that no one wants to fish for booted up Coho and Chum. Weird.
I fully agree that the "Friends of the Cowichan" have an agenda, and it has nothing to do with further rebuilding of Cowichan salmon\steelhead population. Ask them what they think about the impact that an introduced, invasive species of trout have on juvenile salmonids in the system and what we should do about it to help out native salmonids and their true colours will quickly rise to the surface.
IMO this is only about creating a private fly fishing enclave for a bunch of fly fishing snobs who can't bear to share the river with what they conside to be "lower quality" people.
Shameful.
CP
Here's last years final fence counts:
Preliminary final fence count:
2407 adult chinook
1584 jack chinook
10476 adult coho
903 jack coho
47 chum
968 pink/unknowns
2011 status - Chinook - increasing from a low of 500 in 2008; Coho - a historic record escapement through the fence, typical escapement has been around 3,000; Pinks - likely introduced thrrough the net pen program but there has been a historic run on the river so lets see what happens; Chum - the fence doesn't capture many but the escapement at around 150,000 is considered stable.
Based on the facts rather than legend, it appears that the Cowichan is actually on a strong rebuilding trend, not declining as suggested earlier in the thread. I believe this has happened through driving the ocean harvest rate down as far as possible, but mainly through the serious habitat rehab efforts of the various parties involved to fix Stolzes Slide, lower river sloughs etc along with some creative release strategies implemented by the hatchery. For crying out loud folks, give credit where its due!
IMO the idea that under the current suite of regulations, that recreational fishing is having any measurable impact on salmon populations is ridiculous. The effort simoly isn't there, and a huge portion of the river is closed to all forms of angling until Nov 15th. Even after that, the effort is negligible until steelhead season. It appears that no one wants to fish for booted up Coho and Chum. Weird.
I fully agree that the "Friends of the Cowichan" have an agenda, and it has nothing to do with further rebuilding of Cowichan salmon\steelhead population. Ask them what they think about the impact that an introduced, invasive species of trout have on juvenile salmonids in the system and what we should do about it to help out native salmonids and their true colours will quickly rise to the surface.
IMO this is only about creating a private fly fishing enclave for a bunch of fly fishing snobs who can't bear to share the river with what they conside to be "lower quality" people.
Shameful.
CP
Last edited by a moderator:
falcon1
Member
I too don't understand the way fly fishermen look at regular fishermen.
1. You are both trying to catch fish
2. You both need to fool the fish to be sucessful
3. You both have a greater chance of being unsucessful than sucessful
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
The point is this group,thinks they are better than you and you should do as they say.
This has been tried before by the fly club in victoria. They feel fly fishing should be the only way.
This has been tried before by the fly club in victoria. They feel fly fishing should be the only way.
GLG
Well-Known Member
Preliminary final fence count:
2407 adult Chinook
1584 jack Chinook
10476 adult coho
903 jack coho
47 chum
968 pink/unknowns
Look's to me 1200 pair of Chinook is low.
Granted last year they managed to turn the tide in the declines.
Give us 5 years of good numbers and I'll stop worrying about this stock.
Last year we had a thread on the declines of this run.
I posted some charts of numbers for the last few years.
I'll see if I can dig it up.
Of note on those numbers, see the adult to jack ration.
That's high and I would want to know why.
Perhaps it was me as one of the heads I turned in had their pin in it.
One another note see the coho numbers.... not too bad.
Wonder if it's because this stocks smolts go through JDF.
Seems to me I read that in the POST data.
GLG
2407 adult Chinook
1584 jack Chinook
10476 adult coho
903 jack coho
47 chum
968 pink/unknowns
Look's to me 1200 pair of Chinook is low.
Granted last year they managed to turn the tide in the declines.
Give us 5 years of good numbers and I'll stop worrying about this stock.
Last year we had a thread on the declines of this run.
I posted some charts of numbers for the last few years.
I'll see if I can dig it up.
Of note on those numbers, see the adult to jack ration.
That's high and I would want to know why.
Perhaps it was me as one of the heads I turned in had their pin in it.
One another note see the coho numbers.... not too bad.
Wonder if it's because this stocks smolts go through JDF.
Seems to me I read that in the POST data.
GLG
Last edited by a moderator:
Red Carey
Member
The elitist attitudes was one of the main reasons I stopped actively supporting the Victoria fly club. P*@#ing off fellow recreational fishers and the land owners where we were trying to do watershed re-habilitation was not the way to endear yourself to the community at large.
i both fly fish and spin cast, i bring both everywhere. both have there benefits and in my opinion at just two different methods. when it comes down to it, i like catching fish.
in often time when i have little room to back cast (such as pinks on the Campbell) or the wind picks up (nile creek pinks) i just rig up a fly to my spin cast with some split shots... out fish the fly fishers 10:1. often get some dirty looks and told that if im going to spin cast that im "going to scare the fish" and that " i should move down the beach" even though im only using two pea size balls of lead.
"fly fishing only zones" **** me off. i understand chucking huge spinners and spoons... but legally i cannot fish with my fly attached to my spin cast rod the regs state " can only be a single fly attached to the line". even though im using the same methods.... its a way to keep people other then the most experienced and well equipped off the water.
in often time when i have little room to back cast (such as pinks on the Campbell) or the wind picks up (nile creek pinks) i just rig up a fly to my spin cast with some split shots... out fish the fly fishers 10:1. often get some dirty looks and told that if im going to spin cast that im "going to scare the fish" and that " i should move down the beach" even though im only using two pea size balls of lead.
"fly fishing only zones" **** me off. i understand chucking huge spinners and spoons... but legally i cannot fish with my fly attached to my spin cast rod the regs state " can only be a single fly attached to the line". even though im using the same methods.... its a way to keep people other then the most experienced and well equipped off the water.
Big Green Machine
Well-Known Member
Hi Outback,
I like all kinds of fishing too, I agree with you, but there is no doubt that some streams in recovery mode could use all the help they can get and drift fishing with weight and spoons, spinners or other lures are highly effective. Your point about not being able to use a fly with a couple of split shot with a spinning rod in a no gear zone is a very good example of how some regulations don't make sense and why having too many rules can eventually lead to infighting amongst sport fisherman. Too many rules sometimes means no rules at all. Creating a fly only river is also based on the assumption that fly anglers are more ethical, which is a big assumption. For example, if a fellow in a fly only zone, with a full sinking fly line wants to, he can line fish, increasing his catch rate. It is the anglers intent, more so than the technique and gear used, most of the time, that determines catch rates.
I am torn on this issue.
By the way, how can you punch out a cast at Nile with only a fly ad two pea sized split shots sing a spinning rod? Especially in the wind?
i run 15 lb fireline crystal (8lb/6lb diameter?) with a 6 lb leader, which with almost no weight casts incredibly far for what its worth. now that i think about it there more like "big" peas... the ones you get in the crappy tire mixed size split-shot containers. i couldn't think of a better way to describe them size wise.
obviously i very the weight quite a bit when the wind is "howling" but at that point the fly fishers are packing it in and the beach is left to gear fishers.when its a lighter wind and the fly line starts landing slack and the back casts get longer... im still casting straight and pin point. less air drag.
hopefully that helps clear things up
the Cowichan has most definatley seen better days... i say either they close it completely to retention (catch and release) and get rid of all the stupid confusing boundary's, or REALLY start making it a sustainable Fishery... seriously rebuild the river and bring in a bigger hatchery.
falcon1
Member
I understood
Cut Plug
Well-Known Member
Good info GLG but unfortunately the data stops in 2009. Some pretty good gaIns made in the past 2 years, especially for springs.a lso, the data prior to the fence going in (early 80's, not too sure?) is questionable at best, a wild butt guess at reasonable and a total fairy tale at worst IMO. Notice how the estimates all round off at nice even numbers. Not worth the paper they're printed on I'd say.
I also fly fish a lot and have no problem sharing the river or beach with anyone - sometimes the more uptight amongst us are just always looking for ways to blame others for thier shortcomings.
Finally, I can't think of a better flossing weapon than a 300gr Teeny Head and a long leader on a slow run. It is indeed all about the intentions, and who else is watching
CP
I also fly fish a lot and have no problem sharing the river or beach with anyone - sometimes the more uptight amongst us are just always looking for ways to blame others for thier shortcomings.
Finally, I can't think of a better flossing weapon than a 300gr Teeny Head and a long leader on a slow run. It is indeed all about the intentions, and who else is watching
CP
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swashplate
Member
The group is encouraging the concept of putting the fish first and lowering catch rates. How refreshing in this day and age. While sport fishing pressure, regardless of tackle, is an issue that needs to be addressed, there are far more pressing issues that need attention.
finaddict
Well-Known Member
Not enough Falcon, The amount of influence terminal sport fisheries has on these runs, while significant, is not enough to turn the tide for the run to become healthy and viable. Urban encroachment, ocean survival, and native and commercial fisheries have a greater impact. If it is up to the terminal (i.e. river) sport fishing as the "saviour" of any salmon run, the run has been long since doomed.
