Fishermen. Tune into the Leaders debate this evening.

[salmonkiller01]

Just a pity the marijuana party is not running! Atleast they were vocal on their stance. The NDP led by dix just doesn't feel right to me. He was nervouse last night not well spoken and I really have no trust in him and his past proves it, not that the liberals deserve any trust but atleast with the liberals track record you know your gonna get screwed an you have time to prepare.

 

[JAC]

I thought that the liberals stood out and I though the Green Party leader did a better then expected showing.

 

[JAC]

As for the carbon tax not working that seems crazy. The tax works fine its how the money is being spent. If they used that money to support green technology and plant green stuff seems to me it could work!

 

[Pippen]

Dix did way better then anyone else I saw last night......

Did you watch a lot of commercial when he was speaking?

Ya....compare him to Cummins and he was miles ahead but if you think he spoke well to the questions/issued posted at him......sorry....I have to disagree massively.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Christy Clark was by far better speaker but when it came to the issues and questions she dodged more than Dix...they both did but she had a lot more to dodge about as the Liberal record is abysmal.

 

[Pippen]

Christy Clark was by far better speaker but when it came to the issues and questions she dodged more than Dix...they both did but she had a lot more to dodge about as the Liberal record is abysmal.

Really????

Dave.....you have to be kidding me? How do they have much more to dodge and let me preface I am not a huge fan of Christy's but I know which party is going to keep this province digging out of the massive GLOBAL economic CRISIS that crippled half of this planet and continues to do so!!

Do you think if the NDP were at the helm we would have come through the massive economic meltdown in the way we did? Not a chance.

Do you know we weathered the storm pretty much better than any province?

You do understand that when people compare "debt levels" they look at a simple dollar value but fail to realize that the price of EVERYTHING has gone up which includes wages, cost of goods, cost of living, cost of fishing.......BUT.....taxes are in for a massive HIKE when you vote NDP.

It is a trickle out effect that nobody seems to realize.

Dixless said last night the same song and dance over and over and over and over when asked any question. Did you hear him account for where the dollars are going to come from aside from "check out our spending"?? He is betting people won't because it is the taxpayer who is going to be on the hook for all his improvements and mark my word.....LOTS of what he said was worded very, very carefully so he had recourse. I wish I could remember his exact wording on Kinder Morgan BUT it sure left the door open to put it through.

Mark my words......if they get in it will be a 1 term government IF it even makes it that long. Watch your taxes go cruising up......in all aspects of your life. Then....watch the trickle out effect of the disposable income people have to spend on fishing. (I only reference that due to the title of this thread).

As much as I am not a Christy fan, I am WAY happier keeping them in power and calling for a leader reform as opposed to letting Dixless take the helm for a sad, sad state of affairs.

If you are on the edge of voting Green OR NDP.......vote for Dixless.....please. Help the cause.

A change of government is not going to provide sweeping change.......and it's kind of sad that people think so. As in the other thread about the Greens and their fishing mandate I respect people's right to vote, choose their party based on educated opinions......and MORE than anything if they excercise their right to vote BASED on knowing who/what they are voting for.

The whole "its time for change" is a load of garbage as people look at things from SUCH a local level. People forget that due to massive global economic issues NO country or province was safe, it was all about mitigating the damage. Frick.....look at the US housing crisis......and look at it beyond just foreclosures of homes....look at the trickle out effect it caused. It is SO much bigger than just viewing things at face value based on a headline in a paper........and BC as a Province arguably weathered it pretty damn well!

Please, please.....look deeper beyond and really understand the issues, the finance behind them and the notable sweeping change that is coming with the NDP. Only good thing is.....their sweeping change of running gov't will last barely 4 years at tops and they'll be done; mind you the damage WILL be done.

 

[finaddict]

When the NDP left office the books were balanced and we had "money in the bank".

Ah HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......Ooooohhhh that is rich Ah ha ha ha, hee hee hee hee. Oh stop man you're killin me. Oh man, got any more like that? That was hilarious. Huh? you were serious? really?

How quickly we forget. Sad really that you have been so badly brainwashed as to believe that crapola. Have a check with any of the independent economic watch dogs on the NDP record of the 90's.

 

[finaddict]

Really????

Dave.....you have to be kidding me? How do they have much more to dodge and let me preface I am not a huge fan of Christy's but I know which party is going to keep this province digging out of the massive GLOBAL economic CRISIS that crippled half of this planet and continues to do so!!

Do you think if the NDP were at the helm we would have come through the massive economic meltdown in the way we did? Not a chance.

Do you know we weathered the storm pretty much better than any province?

You do understand that when people compare "debt levels" they look at a simple dollar value but fail to realize that the price of EVERYTHING has gone up which includes wages, cost of goods, cost of living, cost of fishing.......BUT.....taxes are in for a massive HIKE when you vote NDP.

It is a trickle out effect that nobody seems to realize.

Dixless said last night the same song and dance over and over and over and over when asked any question. Did you hear him account for where the dollars are going to come from aside from "check out our spending"?? He is betting people won't because it is the taxpayer who is going to be on the hook for all his improvements and mark my word.....LOTS of what he said was worded very, very carefully so he had recourse. I wish I could remember his exact wording on Kinder Morgan BUT it sure left the door open to put it through.

Mark my words......if they get in it will be a 1 term government IF it even makes it that long. Watch your taxes go cruising up......in all aspects of your life. Then....watch the trickle out effect of the disposable income people have to spend on fishing. (I only reference that due to the title of this thread).

As much as I am not a Christy fan, I am WAY happier keeping them in power and calling for a leader reform as opposed to letting Dixless take the helm for a sad, sad state of affairs.

If you are on the edge of voting Green OR NDP.......vote for Dixless.....please. Help the cause.

A change of government is not going to provide sweeping change.......and it's kind of sad that people think so. As in the other thread about the Greens and their fishing mandate I respect people's right to vote, choose their party based on educated opinions......and MORE than anything if they excercise their right to vote BASED on knowing who/what they are voting for.

The whole "its time for change" is a load of garbage as people look at things from SUCH a local level. People forget that due to massive global economic issues NO country or province was safe, it was all about mitigating the damage. Frick.....look at the US housing crisis......and look at it beyond just foreclosures of homes....look at the trickle out effect it caused. It is SO much bigger than just viewing things at face value based on a headline in a paper........and BC as a Province arguably weathered it pretty damn well!

Please, please.....look deeper beyond and really understand the issues, the finance behind them and the notable sweeping change that is coming with the NDP. Only good thing is.....their sweeping change of running gov't will last barely 4 years at tops and they'll be done; mind you the damage WILL be done.

Scotty it is refreshing to see that some get the impact of global economics on a local scale. Unfortunately, ther ewill be many who vote with their nose buried in local issues only.

 

[Pippen]

Scotty it is refreshing to see that some get the impact of global economics on a local scale. Unfortunately, ther ewill be many who vote with their nose buried in local issues only.

I hear ya. SO many people look at Economics as nothing more than what's outside their front door.....or they see on the LOCAL news and don't realize the impact of what just went on..GLOBALLY.

Yes.....I studied Economics/Commerce in University and may look at things a bit different but it pains me that people look at things at such a "face level". I say "face level" as it's "right in their face" as opposed to using the world 'shallow' and having a jihad in this thread but people need to look MUCH deeper into what has gone on!

Talk about "throwing money at a problem"......given the NDP's spending commitments can you imagine our debt had they thrown money at the economic meltdown??

Frick....Dixless rips Christy and the Libs for proposing to sell off idle assets and then has the GALL to mention it in the debate as that's how they made the books look better. He promises some 2.5-3 billion in additional spending...........Oh.....ya.......and he's gonna sell BC Place......an "idle asset" that he saw as such a bad thing to sell less than a year ago.

Frick.....he flips and flops on everything imaginable to gain votes.....if he was a 130cm halibut.....BONK.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

LOL to last line in that post pippen!! Bonk is right...next year though LOL

I studied commerce and economics in university as well and just graduated last year, I feel I keep very up to date on the latest economic issues as well as political scene in not only Canada but world wide. Reading the paper takes up at least an hour a day for me. But this election i'm going to be putting local issues first, as you say. Fish farms #1 and also who is more likely to stand up for rec fishermen to the government of Canada on the halibut issue. We all know Liberals are pro privatization and private enterprise/corporations. Every election in the past I have voted larger scale and it really hasn't benefited me in any significant way in my opinion, maybe even hurt me. I'm generally far right wing especially on economic issues (not so much socially)...but will be swallowing that to vote left this election for salmon, halibut, and our valuable eco system on the west coast. It's not that I don't "understand" the larger economic picture, quite the contrary, but I am prioritizing differently than you is all.

 

[fish stalker]

on that note, I couldnt believe the gall of the liberals to call out the ndp for including the sale of bc place in there budget. When the liberals admitted to trying to sell it multiple times over the last few years and couldnt! So it was going to be sold off and the public never even knew.

 

[Pippen]

on that note, I couldnt believe the gall of the liberals to call out the ndp for including the sale of bc place in there budget. When the liberals admitted to trying to sell it multiple times over the last few years and couldnt! So it was going to be sold off and the public never even knew.

Hey fish stalker.....care to provide a reference to the Liberals trying to sell BC Place?? They looked at over 100 surplus assets to sell.....but BC Place was NOT on that list; I'd love to see your references to multiple attemps to sell it???

You talk about gall on this unsubstantiated fact; what about the gall of the NDP to rip apart and belly ache at the proposed idea of selling off surplus assets a year or so ago??? Now they are talking about doing something once again that they opposed.......something they lost their sh*t over??? They sure do know how to change their tune.

 

[J-GLOBAL]

Funny how if you support the Libs you can find a lot of things the NDP flipped on, and if you support the NDP you can say the same about the Libs. Sometimes about the exact same issue.

Speaking of balancing and cash grabs, the PST/HST/PST was such a huge bungle that it was reversed. If they hadn't tried to grab such a huge amount of cash and were even remotely honest about it there wouldn't have been such a big problem (and reversal). The one HST was good for me as a business owner. I wish it was still 1 HST, but I could see the way the Libs went about it was so arrogant and stupid that the majority public opinion was against it. And don't believe for a second that business owners passed on the savings to consumers... why would a capitalist do that? But it was better/easier.

As a business owner, the Lib policies (in a larger, general way) are "good" for me and the NDPs "bad". But the Libs became far too arrogant under Gordo, and will be humbled in the next election. And deserve to be.

The NDP will do things differently, no doubt, and I don't think I'll like most of them. But it is indeed time for a change/humbling of the libs. Hopefully a few heads roll, or even better most of the remaining top dogs move on or are swept away, to allow a renewal of the thinking across the Liberal party. The Libs did a not of fundamental long term damage to the province, and I still can't believe the Basi/Virk thing. Could you imagine the stink that Lib supporters would be raising about that if it was under the NDP, or Gordo's DUI (he should have resigned, really).

I hope the NDP do some good things while in power. I also don't think they'll last too long in power.

I vote Green. Not too worried about "carbon taxes", they are rather insignificant in my annual overall tax payments. I haven't done the math but I believe the changes to PST/HST cost me a lot more as a consumer, and the reversal now (except for some things) costs me more as a business owner.

Sometimes you need a change. Right now this province does. Change isn't always for the better in the short term, and that might be the case here. But maybe it will be for the better over the long term.

 

[fish stalker]

I heard it on ctv news a few days ago. I didnt read it.

We could start talking about bc ferries im sure I could find you some numbers on that

 

[Pippen]

I heard it on ctv news a few days ago. I didnt read it.

Here is a reference from CTV....and it states the opposite of what you noted earlier?

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/ndp-gov-t-would-consider-sale-of-bc-place-dix-1.1251977

 

[tincan]

agree. technology jobs and other highly skilled jobs are what this province needs to be creating... not continuing to subsidize the dinosaur industries.

As for the carbon tax not working that seems crazy. The tax works fine its how the money is being spent. If they used that money to support green technology and plant green stuff seems to me it could work!

 

[tincan]

Below is a quick snippet from an article that I'm sure you've seen/read. I'd like to hear how to reconcile the FACT that under the liberals our provincial debt has soared to such an level and the claim that the Libs are the "fiscally responsible" party in the province.

I understand you've taken econ/commerce which is great and I'm sure you realize by now that in the real world the stuff you learn in undergrad/grad school is a tool to consider but has many limitations that nearly all top-level economists are finding out the hard way (ie. free market without proper reg does NOT work).

I haven't read all of you posts so I don't know your full stance on BC's economic policy so I'd like to know exactly what time frame you tend to look at when voting/forming opinions. I agree with your statement that many people vote based on what's outside their front door (ie what effects them now and in their neighborhood/line of work). I also think that some people look locally, city-wide, province-wide, country-wide and global when formulating their opinions/voting decisions. In addition to geographic scale, people use different time horizons from "right now" to "generations from now" so I think it's short-sighted to discount other people's opinions until you can determine their horizons (not saying that you are).

I, for one, tend to vote based on a longer term horizon (a generation or two) and place BC just ahead of Canada on my priority list. It's very tough to have this view and find a candidate who is outlining a plan in line with my generation or two thinking. I don't think Dix or Christy are fit to be premier but one of them has and one of them most likely will be.

Another factor that goes into voting for many I'm sure is how our prov leader fits into the federal leadership which makes things even more complicated. As a longer-term thinker/voter I find it reprehensible what our feds are doing by selling off our countries assets/resources in a 'fire sale'. This is the short-sightedness that I hope you would agree is not good for BC and/or Canada.

Balancing a budget is very easy to do by selling off assets but it is not sustainable. Sustainability is creating jobs/industry/skills for that will last for longer than a few years. It's creating industry that will provide "value-added" jobs for decades and decades to come, including manufacturing, tourism, sustainable logging, sustainable mining, etc.

Anyways, that's my little ramble for now. Kinda scattered thoughts but I'm too busy at work today to edit

"Liberals under Gordon Campbell and Christy Clark have boosted BC’s total debt and other hidden “taxpayer obligations” to a whopping $170-plus Billion. In the last eleven years under the BC Liberal government the provincial debt has increased by a factor of 5 times or to a per capita amount of about $40,000."

I hear ya. SO many people look at Economics as nothing more than what's outside their front door.....or they see on the LOCAL news and don't realize the impact of what just went on..GLOBALLY.

Yes.....I studied Economics/Commerce in University and may look at things a bit different but it pains me that people look at things at such a "face level". I say "face level" as it's "right in their face" as opposed to using the world 'shallow' and having a jihad in this thread but people need to look MUCH deeper into what has gone on!

Talk about "throwing money at a problem"......given the NDP's spending commitments can you imagine our debt had they thrown money at the economic meltdown??

Frick....Dixless rips Christy and the Libs for proposing to sell off idle assets and then has the GALL to mention it in the debate as that's how they made the books look better. He promises some 2.5-3 billion in additional spending...........Oh.....ya.......and he's gonna sell BC Place......an "idle asset" that he saw as such a bad thing to sell less than a year ago.

Frick.....he flips and flops on everything imaginable to gain votes.....if he was a 130cm halibut.....BONK.

 

[trendsetter]

Below is a quick snippet from an article that I'm sure you've seen/read. I'd like to hear how to reconcile the FACT that under the liberals our provincial debt has soared to such an level and the claim that the Libs are the "fiscally responsible" party in the province.

"Liberals under Gordon Campbell and Christy Clark have boosted BC’s total debt and other hidden “taxpayer obligations” to a whopping $170-plus Billion. In the last eleven years under the BC Liberal government the provincial debt has increased by a factor of 5 times or to a per capita amount of about $40,000."

The liberals posted deficits when the north american economy was in recession. The deficits were smaller as a percentage of GDP than most of the other provinces. (BC ranked 4th). They posted surpluses when the economy was not in recession.

The NDP posted deficits in 9 of 10 years in power. Personal income taxes were far higher under the NDP than they are under the liberals. This is for ALL income levels.

Oh and please provide details on how the provincial debt is 170+ billion. As of 2012 it was just over 50 billion. When the NDP left it was 34.5 billion. And also when the NDP left, the debt to GDP ratio was 29% and in 2012 it was 23.7%. So even though the debt is higher our economy has grown and is a much better position to service the debt.

When you look at the actual economic numbers over the past 20 years no single economist would rate the NDP as having done a better job than the Liberals. If you have a personal issue with the politicians then of course your are free to vote for whomever you want. Just make sure you know the facts and understand the consequences to the rest of BC, the economy and the future of prosperity in BC when you make your choice.

 

[StriperCheif]

Carbon taxes are a joke. One small volcano erupting puts more carbon in the atmosphere in one day than mankind in 10 years, fact. Its a cash grab plain in simple, research it and make up your own mind. Liberals attempt to stifle Andrea Mortin's evidence about the ISA epidemic caused by the fish farms with Don MacRaes Bill 37 which would have made it illegal to let people know when fish or animals were unfit to eat, gee i wonder who he is working for ? I think it was is enough reason for me not to vote for the liberals not to mention the 200 rivers they gave to private companies and ex MLA's which they are destroying. Liberals are owned controlled and financed by mega corporations, period and they work towards ensuring they profit ! The fast ferries what a load of BS the liberals fed everyone. They gave them away for political points against the ndp. They could have been made to work but Campbell choose to sell us out on that for political bonus points to Denis Washington who sold them for multi millions how obvious was that but people still bring it up. Is pale in comparison to what they did with BC rail. Who sold out the forest industry and are responsible for multiple sawmill pulp mill closures as a direct result,re raw log exports to international mega corps.....liberals again. Vote liberal and kiss BC goodbye as we will be sold out to the mega corps. Funny how they deflect questions about selling BC Hydro another reason. Liberals, millionaires telling me I make too much money and have it too good so when exactly do they have too much and have it too good ! My kids have 35 kids in their classes and plastic chairs in the classroom.... they are selling schools at fire sale prices to developers who make millions ! People are blind !! Its irrelevant what a government did 15 years ago it is today and tomorrow that matter !

 

[finaddict]

Below is a quick snippet from an article that I'm sure you've seen/read. I'd like to hear how to reconcile the FACT that under the liberals our provincial debt has soared to such an level and the claim that the Libs are the "fiscally responsible" party in the province.

"Liberals under Gordon Campbell and Christy Clark have boosted BC’s total debt and other hidden “taxpayer obligations” to a whopping $170-plus Billion. In the last eleven years under the BC Liberal government the provincial debt has increased by a factor of 5 times or to a per capita amount of about $40,000."

"FACT" - as in ...." I read it on an NDP Website so it must be true"