Downrigger Cable Voltage
- Thread starter lure-washer
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jeffywestcoast
Well-Known Member
We were talking about line voltage on the deeplines, but if you want your outboard to start when your done trolling then ya boat voltage is pretty important.
Englishman
Well-Known Member
Dave,
As someone on here has said, this issue never gets resolved and there are many threads on this forum about cable and electrical issues versus braid.
Some say the cannon ball should be isolated, from the cable, others not. Seems to me if you want a charge to "attract" fish the cannonball should not be isolated. However, electric charge potential falls off as the square of the distance. Therefore if you have a large drop back from the clip it should not matter what the charge is as the effect is very small at greater distance. If your flasher is right above the ball then maybe it does help.
My experience running braid and wire for 6 months over a winter was wire outfished braid by 4 to 1. Someone else posted that same ratio on another thread here. I was not using a box, but my natural voltage was 0.35V (350mV), so maybe that was the difference.
Others here say they use braid and forget the hassles. Easier to tie, use swivel and gangion knot as downrigger stop etc. No doubt has advantages. However, I was plagued by random break off with braid, no doubt due to my old scuffed, nicked and abraded pulleys. The friction of a co-polymer like braid on plastic pulleys is huge so heat generated over time is going to kill braid.
And braid definitely has more blow back than cable, not less as claimed by some. It has to for the simple reason it does not have anything like the weight/density of steel and the slightly thinner profile you get with braid is not enough to off-set that. (Otherwise no one would use lead core lines for deep water lake fishing - they have thicker profile but they sink!!)
I went back to wire. I have black box but never really use it.
Victoria TC columnist DC Reid discusses electrical and black box issues here. He is a believer...
http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/angling/protalk/reid/electric.phtml
And here are the other recent forum threads.
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/showthread.php?19578-Problems-with-Pro-Troll-Black-Box
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/showthread.php?11874-Black-box-VS-bRAIDED-LINE
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Swingin Dick
Member
A big vote for braid.
Over the years we have heard lots of talk about voltage. One opinion might be right and another wrong. More, less, change when targeting different species. My opinion, BS. Like a golfer who spends $400 on a new driver only to hit well for a day, then back to the woods (- $400). Or the magnetic bracelets that sold between $40-500. Nobody will ever convince me they catch better with a black box. But thats just my opinion.
Put some power pro 200 lb and call it a day. Spend your $ and energy on quality gear, fishing good spots, learning tides, keeping a log book.
My 2 bits
Over the years we have heard lots of talk about voltage. One opinion might be right and another wrong. More, less, change when targeting different species. My opinion, BS. Like a golfer who spends $400 on a new driver only to hit well for a day, then back to the woods (- $400). Or the magnetic bracelets that sold between $40-500. Nobody will ever convince me they catch better with a black box. But thats just my opinion.
Put some power pro 200 lb and call it a day. Spend your $ and energy on quality gear, fishing good spots, learning tides, keeping a log book.
My 2 bits
Seafever
Well-Known Member
Fishtank:- if you are using braid on aluminum boat , you will not really be affected by the voltage issue:=
However.......if your boat is not up to snuff electrically (bad zincs, leaking voltage from connectors yada yada yada...)
It may affect your fishing in really shallow water and also if you are fishing a trailing rod really close behind the boat.
All boats give off a voltage "footprint' regardless of whether it's running downriggers or not.
But......by itself the "field" does not extend too far from the boat hull.......when you add wire lines to the equation that changes the outcome because the voltage extends down the lines. The hull and lines are positive /negative.
Good idea to keep everything "Up to par" anyway.......
Dave S.:- yes ...you can adjust the volatge up or down from .65 if you have wire lines and a black box.
You can only adjust it as much as the box itself will allow......but you can go either side of .65
Englishman:- for the wire line to work best you need the ball isolated. As long as there is some kind of non-electrical conducting isolation between the ball and the line you are o.k. Some guys do the run the ball connected to the line....but doing this will eff-up your line voltage.
If your natural voltage was .35 at the surface and you were fishing over 150ft deep you are no longer .35 on the bottom of the wire......you have probably fallen to about .25 or..30.
That is extremely low voltage anyhow......it may not have scared salmon away...but it wasn't in the "attractor" zone either.
How can you tell if your voltage is "off" on your lines or boathull without a meter?
If you play a fish and it seems normal until you get it to within 5 feet of the boat and then it goes snake-crap ballistic............your voltage is probably too high or it's at some point where the fish absolutely does not like it......duly noting that if you're voltage is so messed up, then why did the fish bite in the first place......
Wire line that is new out of the package will have the highest electrical response.
Over time as the wire is used, it will lose some of it's efficiency due to the salt water glazing and corroding the surface of the wire........even though it's called stainless.
Algae can leave a coat too.....
Lines that are never hosed off with fresh water after use will fade even quicker.
So you might find that certain settings on the box that worked with new line, do not work so well with line that has been used a lot for a season.
You COULD say that this is a good thing if you don't run a blackbox on your wire.
Your wire is so used, glazed, etched and coated with crap that it doesn't give off much of a voltage charge at all......therefor your voltage will never be too high.
You have to ask yourself....if wire was so damn good........why did they come out with braid?
However.......if your boat is not up to snuff electrically (bad zincs, leaking voltage from connectors yada yada yada...)
It may affect your fishing in really shallow water and also if you are fishing a trailing rod really close behind the boat.
All boats give off a voltage "footprint' regardless of whether it's running downriggers or not.
But......by itself the "field" does not extend too far from the boat hull.......when you add wire lines to the equation that changes the outcome because the voltage extends down the lines. The hull and lines are positive /negative.
Good idea to keep everything "Up to par" anyway.......
Dave S.:- yes ...you can adjust the volatge up or down from .65 if you have wire lines and a black box.
You can only adjust it as much as the box itself will allow......but you can go either side of .65
Englishman:- for the wire line to work best you need the ball isolated. As long as there is some kind of non-electrical conducting isolation between the ball and the line you are o.k. Some guys do the run the ball connected to the line....but doing this will eff-up your line voltage.
If your natural voltage was .35 at the surface and you were fishing over 150ft deep you are no longer .35 on the bottom of the wire......you have probably fallen to about .25 or..30.
That is extremely low voltage anyhow......it may not have scared salmon away...but it wasn't in the "attractor" zone either.
How can you tell if your voltage is "off" on your lines or boathull without a meter?
If you play a fish and it seems normal until you get it to within 5 feet of the boat and then it goes snake-crap ballistic............your voltage is probably too high or it's at some point where the fish absolutely does not like it......duly noting that if you're voltage is so messed up, then why did the fish bite in the first place......
Wire line that is new out of the package will have the highest electrical response.
Over time as the wire is used, it will lose some of it's efficiency due to the salt water glazing and corroding the surface of the wire........even though it's called stainless.
Algae can leave a coat too.....
Lines that are never hosed off with fresh water after use will fade even quicker.
So you might find that certain settings on the box that worked with new line, do not work so well with line that has been used a lot for a season.
You COULD say that this is a good thing if you don't run a blackbox on your wire.
Your wire is so used, glazed, etched and coated with crap that it doesn't give off much of a voltage charge at all......therefor your voltage will never be too high.
You have to ask yourself....if wire was so damn good........why did they come out with braid?
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jeffywestcoast
Well-Known Member
I think braid gets a bit of a bad rap for line breakage, i think if you have run wire for a long time your pulleys can get gouges in them and cause chaffing in the braid, the other day during the derby in my buddies boat we had a mystery breakage on the braid at about 20 feet down the line in about 300 feet of water nowhere near the prop..although it was a quicker switch out we still lost a 12lb cannonball with gopro clip (go pro not installed) scotty end clip and quick release..
As the wire proponent i would say ask yourself this.. If braid was so damn good why do downriggers not come with it pre- installed??,.. something to think about.
As the wire proponent i would say ask yourself this.. If braid was so damn good why do downriggers not come with it pre- installed??,.. something to think about.
casper5280
Crew Member
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jeffywestcoast
Well-Known Member
Your link doesn't work but i believe you, seems pretty popular now, i just bought two new scotty downriggers this year they both come with wire, never seen them for sale with braid, i think i will give wire the rest of the season and switch to braid next year, seen a few different types of braid now which ever is the strongest will get my vote.
casper5280
Crew Member
Link Fixed
jeffywestcoast
Well-Known Member
I honestly am scared of the 2106 , i watched one launch a 15 lber like shotput last year on a charterboat out of Ucluelet guide had just finished telling us he would prefer that we don't touch the downrigger as they were new and very expensive, moments later he had a 15lber buzz right past his ear after having his fancy new downrigger stop set incorrectly...sploosh bye bye 15 lber..i opted for the 1101 depthpower instead.
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Swingin Dick
Member
One thing I don't like about cable is that it gets brittle over time. You just dont know when that time is. I remember pulling the scottys out of the garage a few years ago for our 1st trip o the season. I hook my ball on, attach my clip and plop, right into the ocean. My partner lets his down on the other side, it comes off. Of course Cheanuh was out of balls. Cause if you dont know they are always out of anything you really need (like gas). Buddy had to drive to Sooke. From that day on we've used braided with no issues. I haven't noticed us catching any more or less. Surely getting more lately though, but I think everyone is.
jeffywestcoast
Well-Known Member
there is no doubt cable can become brittle over time, but usually you will have had to had some issues first, IE: hanging up on bottom, crossing them up in heavy current or something of that nature, usually though there are some warning signs like the cable starts to fray or strands of the cable come apart. from what i have seen with braid there is no warning signs it just breaks seen it happen on the retrieve and even just letting the line down to fast in a hurry to get back to where the fish were bitting and setting the break to hard. im not giving up on it in fact i am going to switch to braid after this season. the fact is either wire or braid some days (**** happens) and you lose lead.lets rerail this thread i believe it was me that went off the tracks so i will bring er back around ...thread topic DOWN RIGGER CABLE VOLTAGE.......GO
Englishman
Well-Known Member
Glad it is not just me that has had experience of the random breaks occurring with braid! Someone posted a thread on here about some fantastic go-pro shots which he got because snapping braid sent his expensive camera to the bottom!! (Which he retrieved by fantastic good luck).
Anyway back to voltage. I believe the science is there to prove fish can be attracted or repelled by electric voltage. The big question is, what is the actual voltage on the wire at the depth you are actually fishing and can you measure it and prove it? I know the black box is giving a reading but is that accurate in the case of any given boat and wire/ball/lure set up?
And if you are fishing a big drop back from the clip does it make a difference anyway?
Probably very difficult without very expensive equipment to actually prove the existence of an accurate voltage at or near your lure at depth. So I guess the question will always remain one of anecdotal experience, gut feel, and faith! LOL
wolf
Well-Known Member
OK so ask yourself WHY most guides still use wire???? got to be a reason for it ???
As for breakage if you get 2 yrs out of it your doing GREAT anything past is it worth it?? really a few bucks to get new its the "cost" of fishing leaving it to its all rusted up and breaking is not a good excuse.
I personally havent had a ball snap off in about 10 years as I use proper crimp pliers and good cable and a sampo swivel!!!!!what wrecks cable is the twisting you NEED a good swivel on it.
my voltage is different on all riggers but I know how to change things easily i have them at .5 to .7 and all catch fish
As for breakage if you get 2 yrs out of it your doing GREAT anything past is it worth it?? really a few bucks to get new its the "cost" of fishing leaving it to its all rusted up and breaking is not a good excuse.
I personally havent had a ball snap off in about 10 years as I use proper crimp pliers and good cable and a sampo swivel!!!!!what wrecks cable is the twisting you NEED a good swivel on it.
my voltage is different on all riggers but I know how to change things easily i have them at .5 to .7 and all catch fish
Seafever
Well-Known Member
Stainless downrigger wire is made up of many THIN strands of wire together.
None of the strands are very big in diameter.
Saltwater will eat into the surface of the wire over time......just like on aluminum boat hull where you get that surface patina/coating.
So at any given time on heavily used wire you never know where the weakest point on the wire is beacuse it is hard to tell which strands are etched to the point of failure.
Wire breaks unexpectedly.
Braid breaks unexpectedly.
Both have their good points.
Both have their weaknesses.
If you have a blackbox and use it , you should not be running wire that is questionable.
The wire is the focal point...the black box is just the controller.
The black box, wire and boat combined are all one system and need to be integrated harmoniously.
Any weak point in the combined matrix could spell poor results.
The problem for most people is that calibrating, installing, checking, fixing and operating the entire system ( box, fixtures, electrical leaks, bonding wires, zincs, connections, dissimilar metals, etc.etc..) is too daunting a task.
Just installing a black box and turning it on so it lights up does not mean it was installed correctly by any means.
When you put a black box in you have to take the entire boat into consideration electrically.
None of the strands are very big in diameter.
Saltwater will eat into the surface of the wire over time......just like on aluminum boat hull where you get that surface patina/coating.
So at any given time on heavily used wire you never know where the weakest point on the wire is beacuse it is hard to tell which strands are etched to the point of failure.
Wire breaks unexpectedly.
Braid breaks unexpectedly.
Both have their good points.
Both have their weaknesses.
If you have a blackbox and use it , you should not be running wire that is questionable.
The wire is the focal point...the black box is just the controller.
The black box, wire and boat combined are all one system and need to be integrated harmoniously.
Any weak point in the combined matrix could spell poor results.
The problem for most people is that calibrating, installing, checking, fixing and operating the entire system ( box, fixtures, electrical leaks, bonding wires, zincs, connections, dissimilar metals, etc.etc..) is too daunting a task.
Just installing a black box and turning it on so it lights up does not mean it was installed correctly by any means.
When you put a black box in you have to take the entire boat into consideration electrically.
jeffywestcoast
Well-Known Member
Nice to hear a charter guys still using the old tried n true, when you say you need a good swivel on it do you mean the end clip or do you mean on a snubber or isolation cord, i just use a 3' chunk of tuna cord tied in loops then choked back on themselves at the cannonball and then just hooked on the scotty clip.
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