Maxpri
Well-Known Member
And you wouldn’t have to listen to it tick all day haha
Do I need it ... No, but I want it. Rivian Truck
- Thread starter GLG
- Start date
Corey_lax
Crew Member
Sounds great from my office lol
What are the stats on the carbon cost of making a new EV vs driving your current vehicle into the ground before making a new purchase. From my uneducated perspective, it's still more environmentally friendly to just keep driving your current rig until it dies vs the massive environmental cost of making any new vehicle.
ziggy
Well-Known Member
I remember when trucks were primarily work vehicles, not for a few decades though. When talking towing and load capacity, I’d suggest that’s only a small part of the market currently. The rise of the medium and small ICE trucks attest to my theory. You won’t haul many campers around in an F150, most Toyotas or Nissans either.
There is no 100% solution for 100% of the public. That’s why there is more than one model of car and one model of truck. Been like that since I can remember.
There is no 100% solution for 100% of the public. That’s why there is more than one model of car and one model of truck. Been like that since I can remember.
sly_karma
Crew Member
Fair comment, especially if the existing vehicle is paid off. Everyone has their own set of circumstances and usage pattern.
Building an EV produces roughly 1.5 - 1.8 times more CO2 than equivalent size ICE vehicle. Ranges due to varying sizes, energy sources, supply chains:
5-7 tons for ICE
8-10 tons for EV
In-use emissions are zero at the vehicle itself for the EV - including non GHG nasties like NO2, CO and particulate carbon (soot). In BC and the PNW, our power grid is almost 100% hydro, so the lifetime emissions are far lower for EV, the CO2 emitted during its life is minimal, regardless of km driven or size of vehicle.
CO2 for ICE, we all know that varies with km driven, size, driving habits, etc. A half ton pickup with a small block V8 driven 20,000 km annually is going to generate 7 tons a year of CO2.
End of life recycling creates CO2 as well. About 2 tons for ICE, 3 tons for EV.
Taking the high side numbers (assuming trucks). ICE half ton:
Build: 7 tons
Use: 105 tons (15 years @ 7/year)
End of life: 2 tons
Total: 114 tons CO2 emitted
EV pickup:
Build: 10 tons
Use: 2.4 tons (.16 tons/yr, share of hydro carbon footprint)
End of life: 3 tons
Lifetime: 15.4 tons CO2 emitted.
For us in the PNW, it's no contest, even for a truck driven only 10,000 km a year. The cost savings are huge, will easily pay off the purchase price difference.
Most of Canada's power grid is supplied by non FF sources, primarily hydro and nuclear - almost 80% non FF. The argument that power grid is carbon fired doesn't apply very much for us.
Everyone's situation is different, but in general, the biggest and quickest change most of us could make in reducing daily carbon output would be to switch to EV. The other major area for individuals is our homes. That takes more effort, time and money. But if you're looking for a vehicle anyway, consider your driving habits and if EV would fit the majority of situations. I know I still have to work out how to charge when on the road, but highway trips are only 10% or so of my annual driving.
sly_karma
Crew Member
Some I've seen would work without unhitching, AND not blocking other chargers, many will not. Same as with most gas stations, but of course your truck is going to be at a charger for longer than it would at a gas pump.
All Teslas have their charge port at the rear so their charge stations are designed for vehicles to back in. That's a no if you're towing and don't want to unhitch.
On paper, the best locations for truck and trailer rigs will be places with only one charger. There will of course be a large range of possibilities within that simple scope. Some in city locations might be completely untenable for a towing rig.
While it sounds quite restrictive, I suspect most of us on here are like me, you know the best places to fuel up when on the road with the boat: not crazy busy, lots of room to turn, easy approach route from highway, maybe marine gas available too.
All Teslas have their charge port at the rear so their charge stations are designed for vehicles to back in. That's a no if you're towing and don't want to unhitch.
On paper, the best locations for truck and trailer rigs will be places with only one charger. There will of course be a large range of possibilities within that simple scope. Some in city locations might be completely untenable for a towing rig.
While it sounds quite restrictive, I suspect most of us on here are like me, you know the best places to fuel up when on the road with the boat: not crazy busy, lots of room to turn, easy approach route from highway, maybe marine gas available too.
My truck is at the end of its life anyway. I am just keeping it afloat until a feasible alternative option comes along. I hope this will be within 2 years. I am actually hoping for a larger SUV instead of a pickup. Something like a Ford Explorer or similar.
Corbin
Well-Known Member
Current truck is 15 years old, as was the one before it. The next one will be mostly charged by the house solar system.
From what I am seeing and hearing, don't hold your breath.....want a larger SUV? Suburban size? Right now we are looking mininum two years before you see it....have some trucks cycling through the model years (fleet) and hitting third year for build.
East coast seems a little better, out here it is train wreck to get just about anything.....
Then you add in recalls on vehicles. We are down to a very low 46 vehicles on our used car lot, out of those, 25(ish) have recalls so we can't sell them, some have sat for a year or more.
Pre COVID we has roughly 750 new and used......
We were "lucky" and got 15-20 of the new 1500 pickup.....all 4cyl.
Now we are hearing rumors of 2025-2026 before we really see things change.
Manufactures are the only happy ones.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
And this is why half of our fleet pickups are now sitting on 250k to 300k
Manufacturers my be happy but all they have really done is extended the replacement cycle
Manufacturers my be happy but all they have really done is extended the replacement cycle
Aquaholic
Crew Member
How Well Can an Electric Pickup Truck Tow?
CR’s testing reveals how well the Ford F-150 Lightning and Rivian R1T can handle a heavy trailer, and the challenges of long-distance towing
sly_karma
Crew Member
^ Clear, factual article that didn't set out to prove a foregone conclusion. So much of that around EVs on both the pro and con sides.
CR clearly states that they're testing right out at the max weight and trailer cross section, and did a fair amount of freeway driving, so this is the worst case scenario for towing.
For us boaters, we can expect somewhat better results. Aerodynamics really matter with EV, so a big square 8 ft by 8 ft box trailer will put a lot more hurt on range than a more slippery boat shape. Every tow is different, so there will be a large range of results encountered because of differencs in weight, frontal area, speed, city/country mix, traffic levels, air temp, wind direction, wind speed, precipitation.
I know my boat and trailer at under 3000 lb will cause less severe range loss than the CR test, but how much? Will I make it from Penticton to Hope in one shot? There's fast chargers at Manning Park lodge if I'm feeling nervous, and one at Hope Slide rest stop. Well before that trip happens I'll be doing some test runs around the Okanagan to get a feel for the effect from towing.
Willing to give it a shot because of the savings on the other 90% of my driving. People who make more frequent road trips or tow greater distances or a heavier rig will probably be better off waiting for the better batteries and higher efficiencies that are still in the works. But I can see business users who tow heavy ish trailers for short distances, like say Bobcat owner/operators, the money saved on fuel would be very tempting.
CR clearly states that they're testing right out at the max weight and trailer cross section, and did a fair amount of freeway driving, so this is the worst case scenario for towing.
For us boaters, we can expect somewhat better results. Aerodynamics really matter with EV, so a big square 8 ft by 8 ft box trailer will put a lot more hurt on range than a more slippery boat shape. Every tow is different, so there will be a large range of results encountered because of differencs in weight, frontal area, speed, city/country mix, traffic levels, air temp, wind direction, wind speed, precipitation.
I know my boat and trailer at under 3000 lb will cause less severe range loss than the CR test, but how much? Will I make it from Penticton to Hope in one shot? There's fast chargers at Manning Park lodge if I'm feeling nervous, and one at Hope Slide rest stop. Well before that trip happens I'll be doing some test runs around the Okanagan to get a feel for the effect from towing.
Willing to give it a shot because of the savings on the other 90% of my driving. People who make more frequent road trips or tow greater distances or a heavier rig will probably be better off waiting for the better batteries and higher efficiencies that are still in the works. But I can see business users who tow heavy ish trailers for short distances, like say Bobcat owner/operators, the money saved on fuel would be very tempting.
Irishwolf
Crew Member
It also looks like a cyber truck rip off. I’d much prefer the Tesla.
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