Do I need it ... No, but I want it. Rivian Truck

[OldBlackDog]

The unregulated risks of stored energy

Press release 9 June 2021 Grid-Scale Lithium-ion Batteries – the Next Grenfell? The race for renewable energy driven by the 2050 Net Zero target requires energy storage and this is bringing large lithium-ion batteries into our day to day lives, close to our homes and work-places, on an unprecedented

www.linkedin.com

 

[OldBlackDog]

Pritzker issues disaster proclamation after lithium battery fire in Morris

MORRIS, Ill. — Illinois Governor JB Pritzker has issued a disaster proclamation for Grundy County in response to an industrial fire in Morris that forced thousands out of their homes. More than 100…

wgntv.com

 

[OldBlackDog]

The big looming problem with old EVs: It’s really, really hard to change the battery

Even on a vehicle with only 150,000 km, battery replacement can be more expensive than the car's value

nationalpost.com

 

[sly_karma]

The big looming problem with old EVs: It’s really, really hard to change the battery

Even on a vehicle with only 150,000 km, battery replacement can be more expensive than the car's value

nationalpost.com

90% of article is about first gen Nissan Leaf and its first gen battery tech. Meanwhile there are Tesla owners with 250 000 km on the clock reporting 90% of original charge capacity.

Current release EVs with range of 300-400 km have a stated battery life of 1800-2000 charge cycles. How many ICE vehicles make it to 600,000 km?

 

[sly_karma]

Take a look at this article about Tesla owners' experience with battery degradation over time. Short version: average 90% of range still available at the 320,000 km mark. That would be 16 years' driving for a typical Canadian driver. For a Tesla Model 3 LR with its range of 530 km, a conservative life span of 1500 charge cycles works out to 800,000 km. The reason most dealerships won't know much about battery replacement is because it's not expected to happen for years yet, first edition Nissan Leafs notwithstanding.

The other thing we can expect to see a lot of talk about in coming years is battery recycling. Currently the technology is changing constantly and recyclers are having a hard time developing profitable recycle technologies. As the major players settle on their choices for battery technology, the composition of batteries will become less varied. It's likely that one or two major types will come to dominate. That will open the way for development of mainstream recycling of lithium power modules.

 

[wildmanyeah]

The Tesla I want 7 seater Y is 73k

 

[sly_karma]

Example: Honda CRV in middle-of-the-road trim is 42K, gas mileage is about 8L/100km. So 16,000 litres of gas to drive 200,000 km. At today's $1.50 per litre, that's $24,000 to the oil companies (likely a lot more with the way gas prices are going). Plus maintenance at an average $600 a year for the 10 years to drive 200,000 km; ie, another $6000.

So over 10 years/200,000 km, the Honda crossover SUV would cost at least $72,000. Possibly more if there are any out of warranty repairs to the numerous systems in an ICE. (We usually expect to replace fuel pump, timing belt and alternator by the time a car hits 200,000 km, whereas EVs have none of those items).

Electric vehicle maintenance costs are essentially zero, just consumables like tires and suspension. They barely use brake pads because most of the work is done by regenerative braking returning energy to the battery.

EV power use: Tesla says Model Y has combined city/highway power use of 189 Wh/km. So at typical BC residential rate of $0.089/kWh, your cost is about 1.7 cents per km when you charge at home. So your power costs would be $3360 for 200,000 km of driving. Yes there could be higher costs when charging out on the road, but also a fair number of free chargers out there. Anyway, the BC rebate of $3000 on a new EV covers almost all of your charge-at-home costs.

You're on a break even deal now for a Model Y even if gas stays at $1.50 a litre for the next ten years. Plus whatever value you place on zero emissions, or never having to think about going to the gas station.

 

[wildmanyeah]

When I lived in my town house I was often in step 2 with baseboard heaters


Step 1

$0.0941 per kWh for first 1,350 in an average two month billing period (22.1918 kWh per day).

Step 2

$0.1410 per kWh over the 1,350 Step 1 threshold.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Not that it matters all the much it’s still far cheaper to go with an EV over gas.

the Y can also tow a trailer, tho the sales man said the mileage drops to half or less

my boss just order one suppose to come November.

starting to see a good amount of Tesla’s on the roads in the lowermainland

 

[OldBlackDog]

Example: Honda CRV in middle-of-the-road trim is 42K, gas mileage is about 8L/100km. So 16,000 litres of gas to drive 200,000 km. At today's $1.50 per litre, that's $24,000 to the oil companies (likely a lot more with the way gas prices are going). Plus maintenance at an average $600 a year for the 10 years to drive 200,000 km; ie, another $6000.

So over 10 years/200,000 km, the Honda crossover SUV would cost at least $72,000. Possibly more if there are any out of warranty repairs to the numerous systems in an ICE. (We usually expect to replace fuel pump, timing belt and alternator by the time a car hits 200,000 km, whereas EVs have none of those items).

Electric vehicle maintenance costs are essentially zero, just consumables like tires and suspension. They barely use brake pads because most of the work is done by regenerative braking returning energy to the battery.

EV power use: Tesla says Model Y has combined city/highway power use of 189 Wh/km. So at typical BC residential rate of $0.089/kWh, your cost is about 1.7 cents per km when you charge at home. So your power costs would be $3360 for 200,000 km of driving. Yes there could be higher costs when charging out on the road, but also a fair number of free chargers out there. Anyway, the BC rebate of $3000 on a new EV covers almost all of your charge-at-home costs.

You're on a break even deal now for a Model Y even if gas stays at $1.50 a litre for the next ten years. Plus whatever value you place on zero emissions, or never having to think about going to the gas station.

That $24,000 has a lot of government taxes in it. Electric cars will have to pay them as well.

Driving on roads costs money and at this moment in time electric vehicles are not paying their share, you need to plan that into the costs.

The price of electricity is going to go up dramatically just like gas prices in the future. There is nothing free in the world of cars, so free electricity will be gone soon.

 

[sly_karma]

Nice, but as driving on roads costs money and at this moment in time electric vehicles are not paying their share, you need to plan that into the costs
The price of electricity is going to go up dramatically just like gas prices in the future. There is nothing free in the world of cars, so free electricity will be gone soon.

Certainly reasonable to expect some kind of road tax for EVs eventually. That will depend on when governments decide to pull away from the incentive mode currently in place.

You'd also hope to see a greater level of fairness in the road tax on gas and diesel which currently gives the trucking industry a very easy ride. 80% of road damage done by trucks but they only contribute 20% of the revenue. Trucking costs less per ton per km than it ever has, because they get their infrastructure at far below cost. Meantime rail and ship pay full ticket. Hopefully in the coming years governments will recognize the trucking industry as the major emitters they really are.

 

[OldBlackDog]

Certainly reasonable to expect some kind of road tax for EVs eventually. That will depend on when governments decide to pull away from the incentive mode currently in place.

You'd also hope to see a greater level of fairness in the road tax on gas and diesel which currently gives the trucking industry a very easy ride. 80% of road damage done by trucks but they only contribute 20% of the revenue. Trucking costs less per ton per km than it ever has, because they get their infrastructure at far below cost. Meantime rail and ship pay full ticket. Hopefully in the coming years governments will recognize the trucking industry as the major emitters they really are.

Why eventually? They use the roads as any other car does and they weigh much more.
They should pay now.
As for big trucks, well we can always add to consumer prices when the price goes up for their additional taxes.
Wait, we the consumer already pay that tax through our gas taxes.

 

[GLG]

The other thing we can expect to see a lot of talk about in coming years is battery recycling. Currently the technology is changing constantly and recyclers are having a hard time developing profitable recycle technologies. As the major players settle on their choices for battery technology, the composition of batteries will become less varied. It's likely that one or two major types will come to dominate. That will open the way for development of mainstream recycling of lithium power modules.

I would keep an eye on this company out of Ontario. They are winning contracts from some of the car companies. It's unfortunate that they are ignored by the likes of National Post.
https://li-cycle.com/
As far as I know they are the only ones in this growing field that recycles to battery grade material.
There are others but they don't offer battery grade material so for example the cobalt needs to go to the petroleum industry to work as a catalyst to scrub out sulfur.

 

[sly_karma]

Why eventually? They use the roads as any other car does and they weigh much more.
They should pay now.

Agree completely.

 

[macro]

90% of article is about first gen Nissan Leaf and its first gen battery tech. Meanwhile there are Tesla owners with 250 000 km on the clock reporting 90% of original charge capacity.

Current release EVs with range of 300-400 km have a stated battery life of 1800-2000 charge cycles. How many ICE vehicles make it to 600,000 km?

Every dodge 5.9 diesel... well the motor anyways....

 

[sly_karma]

Every dodge 5.9 diesel... well the motor anyways....

And definitely not the front end of said Dodge...

 

[macro]

And definitely not the front end of said Dodge...

Broke my ball joint press on it the first time around. Second time I bought rebuild-able ball joints from a small company out of Alberta.. No issues since.. But definitely a weak point on a stock front end. https://emfballjoints.com/ I never want to do a job twice due to **** parts.

 

[prodjsaig]

How many times have I seen a dodge speeding past me at 100km/hr. Even thought I have a 600rr that can do 0-100kph in 3.0 Seconds. Get a bike. dont be an idiot

 

[OldBlackDog]

GM extends recall to cover all Chevy Bolts due to fire risk

General Motors is recalling all Chevrolet Bolt electric vehicles sold worldwide to fix a battery problem that could cause fires.

apnews.com

 

[ziggy]

Remember when the Internet was dial up only?. I remember trying to send an email and it would ring about 20 or 30 times then disconnect. I knew right then the Internet would never catch on.