Derby's Canuck emporium

[harper44]

That forward group is way too similar to this year. How'd that go? When the coach says the core is "stale" and it needs to be changed then it needs to be changed. Coaches don't say that for nothing. Look at past three seasons man. How on earth can you say all we need is supporting cast for core? Mind = boggled

I'm not sure how you think the group you proposed with Stasny and Sutter is better than the group I proposed. This team is not going to make changes just for the sake of making them. They are going to make changes if theres something available that makes the team better and Sutter for Kesler is not an improvement by anyones account, even with the addition of a couple of late first round picks in weak drafts. If Sutter was playing on a team like Buffalo or Florida, maybe you would have a case.

I'm not about to questions the mind of a coach who is about to get fired after one season...

2011-2012: Wins presidents trophy, starts playoffs without #1 forward and looses to eventual Stanley Cup Champion
2012-2013: Wins division championship in 48 game season, sucks in first round sweep (admittedly poor)
2013-2014: First half of season: team in top 5 in west, Sedins and Kesler in top 20 in league scoring, Santorelli on pace for 50+ points. Injuries challenge the depth and the team goes in the toilet in second half and trades away their franchise goalie at the deadline.

In my mind, Injuries exposed the lack of depth up front on this team and all top 4 Dmen had probably their career worst seasons at the same time. This is not a 24th ranked squad as is and should have at minimum picked up a wildcard spot for playoffs. With some more depth in case of injury and the Defense playing the way they can, this team will be back in the playoffs next year without a doubt. What is needed to compete in the western conference is a 4 line rotation.

You guys seem to forget everyone in Chicago screaming that they should trade Kane for Luongo after they got knocked out of the playoffs in the first round in 2011 and 2012. Teams don't and shouldn't make moves like that, you have to look at the big picture. This team is nowhere near as skilled as Chicago, but they don't have to be. They just have to get deeper and play a 4 line game.

The free agent pool looks pretty shallow this summer, if I was going to spend money anywhere I would look for a tender with solid experience to split time with Lack while he builds his resume. A guy like Hiller or Halak fits that description pretty well I think.

The most expendable guy on this squad I think is Edler IF he can bring good value on the trade market. He can't seem to bring his game back to his pre-surgery form on a consistant basis and may benefit greatly from a change in scenery as he does still show flashes of that. If he can bring some solid prospects it would be worth trading him.

Weather you agree or not, this team will not sell their core and rebuild. It's not going to happen in the foreseeable future. If they trade Kesler it will be because he wants out of town and for no other reason.

 

[Pippen]

Unfortunately I think Kesler's best days are behind him. In saying that though I don't think it's fair to use this year as benchmark in looking at that. Either Tort's style of coaching doesn't lend itself to his style of play or he just plain and simple doesn't want to be here and needs a fresh start. A fresh start could be a rejuvenated Nucks line up and coaching staff or he needs a new team altogether.

For a guy who was a Selke nominee a couple of years ago.....-15 in +/- doesn't look that great especially when you have a current coach who tends to push a defensive style. Again though you CAN look at the fact that this year has been a sh*tshow for the Nucks in EVERY aspect of their game.

Even last year he only played 17 games....and did manage 13 points but was still a -5.

Tough call on the ENTIRE Kesler situation.

 

[Pippen]

The free agent pool looks pretty shallow this summer, if I was going to spend money anywhere I would look for a tender with solid experience to split time with Lack while he builds his resume. A guy like Hiller or Halak fits that description pretty well I think.

.

Agree on the goalie point. Lack is decent but he needs someone with some quality NHL experience to be in there with him. Unfortunately he was thrown to the wolves this year.

A rebuild is one thing.....but while doing so you certainly help out your team by putting someone in the net who gives them a chance to win each night. Losing night after night is going to make the rebuild that much more difficult as it will be tough on morale and getting the guys to go out and give their best effort.

 

[harper44]

I guess I just don't understand where this rebuild philosophy comes from. Can you guys give me an example of a team who flogged off their core and "rebuilt" a new team through the draft? Chicago and Pittsburg are examples of teams that were bottom feeding plugs for a long time due to poor management and lack of funds, they drafted high up and now are the class of the NHL but none of that was a "rebuild". That process was organic and that's what the draft is designed to do. Boston, Detroit, LA, Anaheim, San Jose... Last year, Getzlaf and Perry were on the trading block according to all the media sources. what did Anaheim do? they gave them both extensions to which everyone laughed and now they are in first place in the western conference and are one of the favorites. Any of these team sell off their core players to "rebuild"? Sure they traded players, they traded guys that they didn't see fitting in their system or the way they were going to move forward. Or they traded guys that they would have kept if not for Salary cap issues. Then they drafted well in their positions and made deals that brought in guys that would fit their system. Continuity makes for a perennial contender. not drastic measures.

I don't see a lot of statistics to back up the rebuild theory. Fact is, Vancouver will not support a bottom feeder for long stretches of time, ownership knows that and won't risk a half empty building for the sake of a rebuild that may or may not pay dividends. You want a shot at winning the cup? make the playoffs every year, the amount of good fortune it takes to come out on top is staggering.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Fact is, Vancouver will not support a bottom feeder for long stretches of time, ownership knows that and won't risk a half empty building for the sake of a rebuild that may or may not pay dividends. You want a shot at winning the cup? make the playoffs every year, the amount of good fortune it takes to come out on top is staggering.

Exactly, can you see where Vancouver will be in 4 years if we don't trade Kesler, Edler for younger pieces?? Where Calgary is...we have hardly any grade A prospects or players in the 20-25 age range. Explain to me how if we don't trade these players away now when they have max value how we would compete in a few years? Also explain how you think this team can compete with SJ, Anaheim, LA, Chicago's of the west?!?! Gotta be a joke. You must of been missing something the past couple years watching. NEED TO GET YOUNGER, anyone who says otherwise is on the crazy pills!

As for your Getzlaf/Perry analogy, hugeeee difference, they're only 28!!!! Sedins, soon to be 34, Kesler 30, Burrows 32, only one piece of our top 4 d core is 28 or younger. If the Sedins were 28 I'd say we are in great shape for a few years too! And we were when they were around that age. They'll continue going downhill now until retirement (next year I say 70pts, then 60 etc).

The line up you put up is considerably worse. A) That second line consists of rookie (who should start year as 3rd line center, similar to MacKinnon), Jensen who has a couple dozen nhl games, and Burrows. Possible third line playing 2nd line minutes. B) Put Kassian on 4th line, genius. Showing some real potential lately and we need to develop him so give him 8-10min a game. Will say that is a pretty decent 3rd line assuming Santorelli can repeat this years performance.
Instead of rookie centering 2nd line, have a proven 25 goal - 60pt player, up and coming potential power forward (and someone who I think will score 20-25 next year in Kassian), and a 20 goal scorer in Higgins.

 

[harper44]

Exactly, can you see where Vancouver will be in 4 years if we don't trade Kesler, Edler for younger pieces?? Where Calgary is...we have hardly any grade A prospects or players in the 20-25 age range. Explain to me how if we don't trade these players away now when they have max value how we would compete in a few years? Also explain how you think this team can compete with SJ, Anaheim, LA, Chicago's of the west?!?! Gotta be a joke. You must of been missing something the past couple years watching. NEED TO GET YOUNGER, anyone who says otherwise is on the crazy pills!

As for your Getzlaf/Perry analogy, hugeeee difference, they're only 28!!!! Sedins, soon to be 34, Kesler 30, Burrows 32, only one piece of our top 4 d core is 28 or younger. If the Sedins were 28 I'd say we are in great shape for a few years too! And we were when they were around that age. They'll continue going downhill now until retirement (next year I say 70pts, then 60 etc).

The line up you put up is considerably worse. A) That second line consists of rookie (who should start year as 3rd line center, similar to MacKinnon), Jensen who has a couple dozen nhl games, and Burrows. Possible third line playing 2nd line minutes. B) Put Kassian on 4th line, genius. Showing some real potential lately and we need to develop him so give him 8-10min a game. Will say that is a pretty decent 3rd line assuming Santorelli can repeat this years performance.
Instead of rookie centering 2nd line, have a proven 25 goal - 60pt player, up and coming potential power forward (and someone who I think will score 20-25 next year in Kassian), and a 20 goal scorer in Higgins.

My linup and your lineup are the same except you have added a centerman of the same age as Kesler on the second line and another 3rd line center. You have Burrows (as you say a 3rd liner) playing 1st line minutes! The Kesler deal still makes no sense to me. I would be happy with the Stasny signing that you mentioned and if Horvat can't play second line minutes then Stasny can play in that spot.

The lines are going to juggle so forget about that for a minute. The point of that 4th line I mentioned is that they can play 12-15 minutes. Its a 3a) 3b) situation. And Horvat should be in the Minors before he plays on the 3rd line with the big squad. If he is good enough to play 2nd line minutes then he stays, if not he goes. Kassian is more versatile of a player in that respect and can be useful throughout the lineup.

If you could get that Kesler deal, What does that pick get you??? who knows!

Should the Canucks be trading their 1st round draft picks for vetran players at this point? absolutely not. But should they trade their core players for late 1st rounders? again, I don't think so.

I think you guys are over valuing Sutter, if Pitt thought he was as good as you guys do, they wouldn't make that deal. Pitt is the 3rd oldest team in the league and Van is in the middle of the pack. The only playoff teams younger than Vancouver in the west Min, Stl, Col.

Calgary ended up like they did because they drafted poorly and didn't develop well. Calgary also was never very good to begin with and were very shallow up front.

Kassian, Jensen, Horvat, Gaunce, Shinkaruk and this years 6 overall pick are the future of this team. If they pan out, we will be in good shape. If they are busts, we are screwed. trading away your best player for Brandon Sutter doesn't change that fact.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Agree with a few of your pts. Never said burrows was a third liner, said that whole line was third line worthy. He wkth sedins i like.

I like horvat starting on third line. Playing enough to develop and not too much on his shoulders. Up the middle i like sedin-statsny - horvat - richardson or matthias.

Kesler for sutter 1st rd and poulliot is well worth it. If you havent look into poulliot. He is a stud. Kris letang potential. If it was just kesler for sutter id agree no way.

Dont think jensen will be great. But he will be good. Like his shot. Gaunce will be a good third line center. No more. If we somehow get michael dal colle this draft...oh man ill like the future then. Or if somehow get a coutourier or even Brayden schenn plus our #6 this year

 

[harper44]

Agree with a few of your pts. Never said burrows was a third liner, said that whole line was third line worthy. He wkth sedins i like.

I like horvat starting on third line. Playing enough to develop and not too much on his shoulders. Up the middle i like sedin-statsny - horvat - richardson or matthias.

Kesler for sutter 1st rd and poulliot is well worth it. If you havent look into poulliot. He is a stud. Kris letang potential. If it was just kesler for sutter id agree no way.

Dont think jensen will be great. But he will be good. Like his shot. Gaunce will be a good third line center. No more. If we somehow get michael dal colle this draft...oh man ill like the future then. Or if somehow get a coutourier or even Brayden schenn plus our #6 this year

Poulliot is maybe the piece that I don't know enough about. If Poulliot can be the next Letang then there is weight to that trade argument.

I don't really care what number Horvat's line has in front of it but he has to be put in a situation where he plays 15+ minutes with offensive skilled players. Same goes for Jensen, those guys mucking it up makes little sense and they would be better served on the top line in the AHL. I think now is the time to give these kids a shot, Van has really never done that in the past, a lot of the good teams now are relying heavily on these rookies to play big supporting roles and their success has depended on it.

Regardless of what any of us think, there's a good chance that Kesler doesn't go anywhere, and if so, I would like to see him on the wing with the Sedins and a young offensive line in the mix. Kesler is enough of a horse to double shift on a checking line when required. The only way this team will compete in this division is by rolling the lines.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

I really want statsny now after last night! I'd give him 5-5.5 a year.

And on Poulliot front, I read that reason Shero wouldn't throw him into the trade at deadline was because they were unsure about Letangs future (after stroke) so didn't want to risk it in case he couldn't play again. Now that it's seen he will be ok more likely to part with Poulliot. Plus with the emergence of Niskanen and Maata, they have awesome d core as is and its young.

 

[harper44]

Beauty game by Stasny last night. Normally a setup man but he had the finish last night


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[SerengetiGuide]

The more I watch Sutter the more I like him. Think he's a good two way center and has some offensive pazzaz. I think he could be a 25 goal scorer and real good in defensive zone. Not quite of kesler stature but almost. Remember he only just turned 25, Kesler didn't really have his breakout season till he was 25, and his best season at 26.

 

[wishiniwasfishin1]

word on the street.....Torts will be gonzo tomorrow...

 

[Theb55]

The Rangers are a happy team as they are through to the next round. And the Canucks didn't make it into the playoffs with the ex Ranger coach.


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[Derby]

Bruins LA final this year..

 

[Lipripper]

Torts and Sulli are gone

 

[SpringVelocity]

God that took forever! Good move.

 

[fishnwhenIcan]

Bruins LA final this year..

Not a bad prediction but I hope you're wrong. It would be nice for a Canadian team to win the cup for a change. It's been quite a while and Bettman would hate it but screw Bettman. Not a Canadiens fan but better than the leafs.

GO HABS GO!

 

[Bows Up]

Mr Derby, puhleesse. Hawks vs. Habs final. I yearn for revenge.

 

[fishnwhenIcan]

Mr Derby, puhleesse. Hawks vs. Habs final. I yearn for revenge.

You are so livin in the seventies! I was a Hawks fan back then. Dam Lemaire!

 

[Bows Up]

Good call, fishnwhenican. What made it worse was I lived in Montreal. Lemaire @$%&.

Some redemption in recent years but beating the Habs in a final would be the ultimate.