Commander 26 Re Build

[walleyes]

Yah that wood is Kiln Dried but it’s not treated. It’s your call but if it were me I would go full treated. As well when you make your cuts have a can of treatment to brush on your cuts.

just a thought man. You doing a heck of a job on er, don’t skip a part.

ARMORALL Copper Green Wood Preservative | Home Hardware

Get the ARMOR ALL Wood Preservative - Copper Green, 3.5 L at your local Home Hardware store. View online and pick-up in store.

www.homehardware.ca

 

[Corbin]

So that’s most likely the cause of the gap between the glass and the stringer? The wood eventually drys, shrinks and splits away from the glass?
Just curious, how did you realize there was severe shrinkage

Some of the worst issues I've had was after the rebuild of our current house. On some of the structures I built the drywall has collapsed and folded in where the structural spruce behind it shrank. I'm going to have to pull the drywall off and redo it.

If you think the wood you chose is nice and dry I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it. If you are worried, put the wood in a warm dry place for a few days and see if it moves.

I recently spent several hours pulling a bunch of 6x6 and 4x4 fir that I was going to use to build a big bench in my shop. After sitting in the shop for a week it was all split and twisted. I returned it all and built the bench out of steel.

 

[terrin]

Told the wife I’m going to save on.
Went back to the shop,
Had to check the wood LoL
Is KD heat treated spruce pin firView attachment 78041

There is a place in mission right beside the river that sells recycled fir. It’s old growth rough cut and you can sand it up nice. Tight grain and strong and any length and width you need.

 

[Dorman Point]

Some of the worst issues I've had was after the rebuild of our current house. On some of the structures I built the drywall has collapsed and folded in where the structural spruce behind it shrank. I'm going to have to pull the drywall off and redo it.

If you think the wood you chose is nice and dry I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it. If you are worried, put the wood in a warm dry place for a few days and see if it moves.

I recently spent several hours pulling a bunch of 6x6 and 4x4 fir that I was going to use to build a big bench in my shop. After sitting in the shop for a week it was all split and twisted. I returned it all and built the bench out of steel.

Like this? At a local lumber yard this past summer, during that crazy heat…

@cracked_ribs might be able to use this as a sheer clamp for his next boat build.

 

[Fish-on]

Using spruce for the stringer, from production it was exactly 18 feet, the one I got is 18’ 2”, just enough to cut it 13 degrees at the transom and have it 18’ ,one piece stringer from front to back

Absolutely outstanding work you have put into this Commander so far, your a very talented craftsman. I have a 1999 Commander 30 with twin diesels. Commander boats IMO have set the bench mark for west coast cruisers, lots of usable space, no wasted space and extremely versatile for family getaways or fishing trips with the boys. I don't want to sound like I'm being critical but I would like to chime in on your stringers. I have done a lot of glass work over the years and replaced many stringers. Stringers are the back bone of your build, typically boat builders have always used fir in most boats like yours. The problem is, in the last 15 years its next to impossible to get decent dry fir 2x12's that are 18-19 ft long. It is very crucial that the wood being used has a very low moisture content. It's not so much the shrinkage but trapping the moisture in once the stringer is encapsulated with glass, over time the wood will rot and it happens a lot faster then you realize, I've cut into 10 year old spruce stringers only to find them completely rotten and it wasn't because the glass was bad and moisture got in, it was because the wood was wet to start off with. Most recently what we do is use 3/4 in plywood laminate 2 pc's together staggering our long joints 4 feet apart to give maximum strength with 1-1/2oz Canadian matt between laminations and cut our stringer from that.
Again this is just the way we do it doesn't mean it's the only way but just consider all the options before you glass in spruce. I can only imagine how excited you are to get this completed and in the water. I know it is a ton of work and the itching never stops but it's so rewarding when your finally done and enjoying the boat you basically built from the ground up.

 

[Rain City]

Absolutely outstanding work you have put into this Commander so far, your a very talented craftsman. I have a 1999 Commander 30 with twin diesels. Commander boats IMO have set the bench mark for west coast cruisers, lots of usable space, no wasted space and extremely versatile for family getaways or fishing trips with the boys. I don't want to sound like I'm being critical but I would like to chime in on your stringers. I have done a lot of glass work over the years and replaced many stringers. Stringers are the back bone of your build, typically boat builders have always used fir in most boats like yours. The problem is, in the last 15 years its next to impossible to get decent dry fir 2x12's that are 18-19 ft long. It is very crucial that the wood being used has a very low moisture content. It's not so much the shrinkage but trapping the moisture in once the stringer is encapsulated with glass, over time the wood will rot and it happens a lot faster then you realize, I've cut into 10 year old spruce stringers only to find them completely rotten and it wasn't because the glass was bad and moisture got in, it was because the wood was wet to start off with. Most recently what we do is use 3/4 in plywood laminate 2 pc's together staggering our long joints 4 feet apart to give maximum strength with 1-1/2oz Canadian matt between laminations and cut our stringer from that.
Again this is just the way we do it doesn't mean it's the only way but just consider all the options before you glass in spruce. I can only imagine how excited you are to get this completed and in the water. I know it is a ton of work and the itching never stops but it's so rewarding when your finally done and enjoying the boat you basically built from the ground up.

You can get 20 foot KD Fir at Dicks. But if you're in a rush I think LVLs or your own built up plywood beam would be better.

 

[Brando]

Have you considered going with foam or coosa for your stringers? Don’t want to start an argument on the subject just wondering if you have considered the idea, lots of boats are going this route now with epoxy resin.

 

[Rain City]

Have you considered going with foam or coosa for your stringers? Don’t want to start an argument on the subject just wondering if you have considered the idea, lots of boats are going this route now with epoxy resin.

Sometimes I wonder how much the stringers are actually providing strength to the hull or if they're just acting as backing for all the glass structure. You'd have to know how it was engineered to be totally confident about this.

 

[Brando]

Sometimes I wonder how much the stringers are actually providing strength to the hull or if they're just acting as backing for all the glass structure. You'd have to know how it was engineered to be totally confident about this.

Coosa is a structural material, foam I wonder as well but it’s being done and would stop the rot issues.. epoxy will also be more “waterproof” and stronger than poly. Nothing against fir/ply and poly though, it has worked for many years and proven itself effective. Just wanted to know if he has thought about the idea and what Ron’s thoughts were.

 

[Sttr]

Well, came in this morning and checked out the stringer. It is dry on the outside but the resin acetone mix didn’t stick to the wood. Its not too cold in the shop, so I figure the wood is a bit wet. It’s been 16 hours since the resin was applied, which in comparison was plenty of time for the resin to dry on the ply.

 

[Sttr]

We thought about foam, a ply laminate and spruce/fir , but that was a couple weeks ago. Ever since I cut into the stringer and seen how solid it was, I was sold on the original design. That wood is solid after 40 years. If it wasn’t for the fuel leak issue these stringers would still look brand new. I didn’t really take into consideration the many times Ron said “ man you can’t even buy this quality wood anymore”

 

[Rain City]

We thought about foam, a ply laminate and spruce/fir , but that was a couple weeks ago. Ever since I cut into the stringer and seen how solid it was, I was sold on the original design. That wood is solid after 40 years. If it wasn’t for the fuel leak issue these stringers would still look brand new. I didn’t really take into consideration the many times Ron said “ man you can’t even buy this quality wood anymore”

Yeah wood isn't the same as it was 40 years ago

 

[Sttr]

Well it didn’t pass Ron’s test, that’s for sure.
I love the ply laminate idea myself. I need a night to sleep on it

 

[Sttr]

The fuel leak killed the stringer. The way the commander is built there is no way any water is getting in even if the deck is wet, it will drip down the sides. Maybe a bit by the transom can get wet but that’s it. The fuel leak was traced down to a poor silicone seal around the fuel pick up tubes in the engine bay allowing drops of salt water to slowly eat away at the tank until we got a pin hole. IMO these 1980 s commanders are solid boats, even mine would of lasted for years more if it wasn’t for the inline 6’s

 

[ship happens]

Some of the best built boats in the world have no wood at all. Hollow fibreglass stringers

just saying

 

[ab1752]

Is microlam an option? Years ago I worked for tjm macbloe and always thought microlam would work well for use in boats, perhaps it is too stiff as opposed to Doug fir / conventional lumber

 

[Squire]

Yeah wood isn't the same as it was 40 years ago

I have to agree with this. You would need KD‘d free-of-heart-center Sitka Spruce over 250 years old to prevent rotting, cupping and bending even after it‘s glassed in place; not the typical current Engleman Spruce from interior mills with wide growth rings. The wider the growth rings, the more moisture is in the wood originally and the greater the tendency to cup and bend. I also agree with other posters that LVL would be your best bet (or marine plywood layed up as suggested). If you go with a laminated product you already have a template

 

[ship happens]

Plywood would work however a product with a ton of glue in it won't because the resin will not soak in.

 

[ship happens]

I have a buddy who runs a mill out in the valley. I can forward you his info. See what he has to say.

 

[casper5280]

Most recently what we do is use 3/4 in plywood laminate 2 pc's together staggering our long joints 4 feet apart to give maximum strength with 1-1/2oz Canadian matt between laminations and cut our stringer from that.
Again this is just the way we do it doesn't mean it's the only way but just consider all the options before you glass in spruce. I can only imagine how excited you are to get this completed and in the water. I know it is a ton of work and the itching never stops but it's so rewarding when your finally done and enjoying the boat you basically built from the ground up.

When I did mine, I was told by a old boat builder to use marine plywood too. We cut 2- 3/4"x12" and a 1/2"x12" strips and laminated them together. Used screws to clamp them all together every 6", when dry we removed all the screws cut the to shape and wrapped them in glass and then installed them. Love the build keep up the great work