Can't Keep quiet any more
- Thread starter Jencourt
- Start date
SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
Oh ok, so the president (searun I think) was wrong in that email about polling the members. My mistake.
Aces
Well-Known Member
Oh for FAWK SAKES!!
This freaking argument again!!
You guys want to be closed now like the Washington guys??
That's the alternative.... whether you like it or not our piece of the pie is smaller now so there's our choice. If you don't like it go to the freaking meetings and quit bitching on a fishing forum.
This freaking argument again!!
You guys want to be closed now like the Washington guys??
That's the alternative.... whether you like it or not our piece of the pie is smaller now so there's our choice. If you don't like it go to the freaking meetings and quit bitching on a fishing forum.
Jencourt
Well-Known Member
There is clearly a lot of passion and emotion amongst us regarding this entire issue. This thread has found it's way right back to where the others ended up back in Feb/March. It was not my intent to yet again facilitate and provide a platform from witch people could bash the SFAB or anyone else.
I re-red my post and I did no more than what I have maintained to be acceptable and sometimes productive. I respectfully expressed my disappointment and non acceptance of the value of the decision made. I expressed my opinion and how the decision affected me. I also made a suggestion as to the direction that I feel our sector should be taking the fight in order to protect our access to this great resource. I am a little surprised that this kind of dialog could not spur on more productive conversation instead 3 months after the initial reaction we are still putting the priority on assigning blame.
Obviously I made a bad choice in the way I tried yet again to get the point across that we need to get out of survival mode and focus on long term solutions.
Bruce: You are clearly confused as to what I said and have added assumption to your reasoning of my thoughts.
Short answer is this.
A: I have nothing but respect for the people that do the work on our behalf. I do not always agree with what they decide but I do respect them. my suggestion as to how to make a dif is and always has been to look for long term solutions to the ITQ. The ITQ as it is set up now allowing ownership of quota is our biggest enemy in all of this.This idea that those with the money can have the most access is what will end recreational fishing forever. Long before all the fish are gone. I have been and will continue to try to get people to realize that fact. Unfortunately human nature prevailed and this latest attempt has resulted in this thread becoming what it has.
I re-red my post and I did no more than what I have maintained to be acceptable and sometimes productive. I respectfully expressed my disappointment and non acceptance of the value of the decision made. I expressed my opinion and how the decision affected me. I also made a suggestion as to the direction that I feel our sector should be taking the fight in order to protect our access to this great resource. I am a little surprised that this kind of dialog could not spur on more productive conversation instead 3 months after the initial reaction we are still putting the priority on assigning blame.
Obviously I made a bad choice in the way I tried yet again to get the point across that we need to get out of survival mode and focus on long term solutions.
Bruce: You are clearly confused as to what I said and have added assumption to your reasoning of my thoughts.
Short answer is this.
A: I have nothing but respect for the people that do the work on our behalf. I do not always agree with what they decide but I do respect them. my suggestion as to how to make a dif is and always has been to look for long term solutions to the ITQ. The ITQ as it is set up now allowing ownership of quota is our biggest enemy in all of this.This idea that those with the money can have the most access is what will end recreational fishing forever. Long before all the fish are gone. I have been and will continue to try to get people to realize that fact. Unfortunately human nature prevailed and this latest attempt has resulted in this thread becoming what it has.
Islandgirl
Well-Known Member
Yes!
Individual Transferable Quota is going to end REC fishing. If you don't like what has happened with hali, you won't like what is coming down the road next...salmon, crabs, prawns etc.
It has already happened on the east coast and DFO is doing their best to ram it down our throats out here.. IE purchase hali quota.
This slot size has Nothing to do with consevation...if it makes you feel good to release a big hali or you don't want to eat it..OK
As many have said it will end up on a long line of a commercial vessel.
Salmonaddict
New Member
Pardon my naivity, but if we are to propose longer term solutions, should we not focus on the biggest cavity... if slippery skippers were INDIVIDUALLY gifted their quota, and rec fishers want to grow their portions to 20% or more, would it not be worth challenging DFO to make the original gifted quotas non-transferrable? It wont stop the leasing and financial pillaging in the interrim, but upon death would at least eliminate this aspect of the overall equation. In a time where the federal government is vulnerable to aspects of inequitable conduct, I dont think we need to find a $90k personal cheque to get their attention in correcting an inequitable decision made when the gifting was instigated. By giving them an excuse mechanism to hold to this original agreement but to get out of it by making it right (non transferrable or sellable) by declaring it expired upon death, it may be a crack in the armour to argue quota against commercial. Food for thought, still naive enough that we have to get a crayola simple solution into the hands of those that are currently contaminating the human gene pool, before this will be anything but frustrated venting.
so driving through the north island a commercial came on the radio from a tofino lodge. in this commercial it brags that if you catch a hali bigger than the slot limit they will buy it for the commercial price.... priceless. guides lodges should have to buy ALL there salmon and hali that they then SELL to they customers. thats what is on the letters i've been sending to sfab and the dfo. sick of getting screwed by lodges and guides looking out for "my best interests" by protecting there "peak season" and invoking slot limits but then turning around and purchasing quota.
GLG
Well-Known Member
So I take it that you are in favor of a two tier system for recreational anglers.
One for non-guided anglers and one for guided anglers.
Where do you think the quota will come from to split this system up?
Take halibut as an example...... with your system....
Commercial 85% - non-guided 5% - guided 10% (no idea if the numbers work)
You see DFO and the commercials would never give up their % to split us up.
Your idea just has too many problems and it would turn into a fishery for the rich.
Well that's what this experimental halibut license is all about... you must be happy..
Think this through and you will see the problems......
GLG
steel_dreamin
Member
You seem to do a lot of shooting down of others ideas but I haven't heard many from you?... So, what's your big solution? Continue on our merry path with lodges purchasing quota which everyone "swore" would never happen? Oh wait, we're going to fight for more TAC, right...
gimme a break; this **** is getting really old quickly. Sure is a lot of egg to go around.
What ever happened to the SVIAC? sure was a big buzz a few months back but haven't heard anything since. Maybe they don't frequent this board anymore?
GLG
Well-Known Member
Yup your one to talk..... Matter of fact I'm doing leg work here for next year and the future. Some on here have even given great input on what will be passed on to SFAB for consideration. If you were in the know you would have all ready read it. Do I think it's end all be all? heck no, that's why I am also using my contacts past DFO. You have to change peoples minds and cut through their ideology with real world examples to effect change. Not an easy task when the popular view is "the magic hand of the market" is the answer to all problems. Heck I'm finding that many don't even understand where the quote came from or what the context was. It seems to me that the bean counters are running the world. You know the guys that know the cost of everything but the value of nothing. They see where you can make a buck and externalize the cost onto someone else. As long as I get what I want who cares about the other guy......... Where have I heard that.....
It's no secret we don't get along... and there's a reason we have lost many good members on this forum. Guy's like you and your caustic posts. Why can't you be respectful when you post? Slag SFAB, SVIAC or anyone that has put in the time to effect change for all Canadians. Have you every thought of how big this sector is and how many people are affected by it?
Whats your solution to or Halibut problem. Why don't you take the time to post something and the steps we need to take to get there.... too much of a challenge for you? Way easier to pound out a post and rant on someone....
Too many projects to waste my time on post like this.....
GLG
GLG
Well-Known Member
That's because new members turn up with half a dozen posts and clearly only want to get involved with one purpose in mind. The problem is .... is it a plant from the slipper skippers or some other group. Is it just some guy that likes to stir the pot (troll) and see if he can get a reaction from a regular member. Hard to tell even with your posts there Double. Quick look in the history of your posts and as a new guy you have no fishing reports.... that say's a lot.
FishWhisperer
Active Member
...pretty rowdy thread here. My 2 bits:
Reading the posts reminds me very much of when Black Cod first went to quota.
From my experience, I still believe that we could have stopped the transferable quotas back in the late 80's if we could just ...get ...organized, under one umbrella. I don't know if it was the shock of actually finding out the repercussions of ITQ's or the anger at how it was created with only a few fisheries reps and a handful of license holders in private round table meetings but, we never could calm down enough to figure out that united we stand, divided we fall. The results of which created what we called the "Arm Chair Captains" (which evolved into Slipper Skippers - better name). I almost feel a bit responsible for it.
Immediately, 80% of the fishermen were out of work as there were only a couple boats fishing the whole West Coast quota. Done. Finished. ...Next? Pacific Halibut stocks. Done. Finished.. ...Next? ...
The transferable quota system is the scourge of the West Coast. Quotas work but being able to transfer them killed the Black Cod and Halibut industries over night. I personally am a victim. And believe me you, sportfishing is the next victim if ITQ's are here to stay.
Reading the posts reminds me very much of when Black Cod first went to quota.
From my experience, I still believe that we could have stopped the transferable quotas back in the late 80's if we could just ...get ...organized, under one umbrella. I don't know if it was the shock of actually finding out the repercussions of ITQ's or the anger at how it was created with only a few fisheries reps and a handful of license holders in private round table meetings but, we never could calm down enough to figure out that united we stand, divided we fall. The results of which created what we called the "Arm Chair Captains" (which evolved into Slipper Skippers - better name). I almost feel a bit responsible for it.
Immediately, 80% of the fishermen were out of work as there were only a couple boats fishing the whole West Coast quota. Done. Finished. ...Next? Pacific Halibut stocks. Done. Finished.. ...Next? ...
The transferable quota system is the scourge of the West Coast. Quotas work but being able to transfer them killed the Black Cod and Halibut industries over night. I personally am a victim. And believe me you, sportfishing is the next victim if ITQ's are here to stay.
Tidal Chaos
Active Member
Forgive my ignorance as this may have already been touched upon, if they continue to ram the purchase of quota down our throats, are we as rec fisherman that have to purchase quota down the road allowed to sell our catch as the commies do, as this allotment is coming from there quota it should still be considered commercial quota, do the commies want the rec side getting into competition with them for product sales. I think it would be a good argue end from a good lawyer that could push the argument, I really don't think DFO has thought the purchasing of commercial quota through, if we can purchase to catch bigger fish as the commies are allowed to do then we should also be allowed to sell our catch as the commies do.
Another way I look at this is, the guys that are now selling there quota and making money from it, get to sit on there butts and make top dollar for that quota and not put anything back into the economy, no fuel, no food for there crew, they get to reap the reward with very little cost to them, this is why they are pushing for us to purchase the quota as they still make the money and don't have to have the expenses incurred if they had to fish there full quota!
I read a lot on this forum and have not seen these topics covered so I hope I am not out of line or wasting any oldies time, but thought I could add my thoughts on this subject.
Another way I look at this is, the guys that are now selling there quota and making money from it, get to sit on there butts and make top dollar for that quota and not put anything back into the economy, no fuel, no food for there crew, they get to reap the reward with very little cost to them, this is why they are pushing for us to purchase the quota as they still make the money and don't have to have the expenses incurred if they had to fish there full quota!
I read a lot on this forum and have not seen these topics covered so I hope I am not out of line or wasting any oldies time, but thought I could add my thoughts on this subject.
trophywife
Crew Member
good thoughts TC,, the govt hates competition.
Aces
Well-Known Member
There is no freaking way any charter outfit in Tofino is involved in that program
Steel, you ask what is SVIAC doing lately? Do you go to the SVIAC site and check on what they are working on? Did you at least buy a membership to support the efforts of the society on your behalf? You are getting tired of the fight. Tell us what you are doing that is making you so tired? Are you writing letters, getting involved on boards or committees that dedicate unpaid time to try and influence positive change? Or are you a "slipper bitcher"? (someone who lets others do all the work and is happy when they succeed but ******* loudly when the fight takes longer than they like) Sorry to be so blunt but this is what I tire of. Rec fishers who complain and cave after doing nothing themselves. Not going to sugar coat it. When I read these kind of posts I seriously think I would get way more gratification by fighting for fish and not some sport fishermen.
Gunsmith
Well-Known Member
Well somewhere along the way a few have aquired sole possesion of what really does not belong to them.
hooktender68
Well-Known Member
The radio commercial you heard regarding being able to buy your big halibut is for Moutcha Bay near Tahsis. They also own a lodge out towards Nootka. Very pathetic ad!!
fish4all
Well-Known Member
The itq system is the best management tool dfo has to work with for the commercial sector. Since the itq's has come into place we have never and can never over harvest. so why is that a bad thing?
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