A skiff
- Thread starter cracked_ribs
- Start date
cracked_ribs
Well-Known Member
Oh, interesting, yeah, I guess it is a bit different even though I think aside from really location-specific stuff I usually just copy-paste from here; but then there's stuff here that's just never going to be a question, like "why are you hooking those fly-fishing rigs to weird side-spooling downriggers and dragging tiny plastic squid around?" that I don't have to explain here, but I feel like I need to give background on over there because it's so unfamiliar to them.
THT is strange to me because they're practically all in Florida, it seems like, so they don't understand 12 or 13 foot tidal swings, water full of logs, or 10 knot currents in passes. Or why anyone would need anything but a centre console, which actually doesn't even make sense in Florida to me because I can barely handle full sun here. There I think a centre console would be like trying to fish while a giant kid holds a magnifying glass over you. But anyway, I feel like I have to give more background there...like "yeah the thing is if you fall in the water here in January you can't just tread water until the next 60mph triple-engined Regulator whips by in ten minutes because there are eighteen million of you guys in an area a tenth the size and also...our water will actually kill you if you do stuff like, say, be in it."
But then I guess there's also just different questions that come up, and...yeah, I don't know, it's interesting. I have two other parallel threads going, actually: one on a boat-building forum, and one on a small gun forum mostly inhabited by either professional shooters, or high level competitors, where I've known most of the people for years. Each one has a bit of a different set of underlying information, so each one I have to tweak a tiny bit so people get why I'm doing some of the stuff I'm doing. It's been fun to write, actually. My favourite writing project in a long time.
THT is strange to me because they're practically all in Florida, it seems like, so they don't understand 12 or 13 foot tidal swings, water full of logs, or 10 knot currents in passes. Or why anyone would need anything but a centre console, which actually doesn't even make sense in Florida to me because I can barely handle full sun here. There I think a centre console would be like trying to fish while a giant kid holds a magnifying glass over you. But anyway, I feel like I have to give more background there...like "yeah the thing is if you fall in the water here in January you can't just tread water until the next 60mph triple-engined Regulator whips by in ten minutes because there are eighteen million of you guys in an area a tenth the size and also...our water will actually kill you if you do stuff like, say, be in it."
But then I guess there's also just different questions that come up, and...yeah, I don't know, it's interesting. I have two other parallel threads going, actually: one on a boat-building forum, and one on a small gun forum mostly inhabited by either professional shooters, or high level competitors, where I've known most of the people for years. Each one has a bit of a different set of underlying information, so each one I have to tweak a tiny bit so people get why I'm doing some of the stuff I'm doing. It's been fun to write, actually. My favourite writing project in a long time.
Rain City
Crew Member
I feel cheated on.
ab1752
Crew Member
We need you to cut and paste your "I need something 30' with outboards that's lighter than a commander" thread to the hull truth so we can watch their heads spin off. "2 engines on that Thang? Come on, son, gotta be 4 or no more to get that thing past 70...."
Sorry for the thread derailment, cracked ribs, but it was inevitable with us hanging around...
cracked_ribs
Well-Known Member
If I wanted to stay on rails, I'd build trains.
I don't even want to stay on roads. I want completely uncontrolled terrain with no signage and a three dimensional surface that launches me into the air and is completely different depending on the weather.
Derail away; chaos is my mode and modus.
I don't even want to stay on roads. I want completely uncontrolled terrain with no signage and a three dimensional surface that launches me into the air and is completely different depending on the weather.
Derail away; chaos is my mode and modus.
cracked_ribs
Well-Known Member
Progress is continuing at typical summer pace: lots of time off to go play at the beach etc. But I continue to chip away here and there.
Here's the current state of things:
Back when I cut the side panels, I also cut the outwales or rubrails or however you want to look at that, because of course I could easily follow the curve of the hull panel that way. But I also cut 4 extra 1 1/2" strips following that curve, then split them longitudinally, and now I have 8x 3/4" strips that mirror the sheerline. I glued them to the inside of the hull stiffeners, to give me bands to attach the coaming to. Once I'd laminated them in place, they were pretty stiff and pretty hard to push out of their lam'd-in curvature. You can see here I've already glued on the first round, and now I'm laminating on the second one.
Then I was roughing in side decks and coaming and stuff...
Kind of a nice look but the wood isn't in good enough shape to do bright...thank god, or I would end up doing that.
Then it was coats of epoxy on everything to seal it up:
Coaming going on:
This is total paranoia but after two coats of epoxy I still paint surfaces if I won't be able to see them easily. Extra moisture protection.
And finally, I have the coaming in, and I'm placing foam blocks in the gunwales now. The gunwales alone should give about 240lb of positive floatation so this thing should be hard to flip when swamped. Under the breasthook there'll be a little more, although I haven't done the math on exactly how much - not enough to have a huge impact though.
At the transom, right below the decking on the side boxes and under the splash well, there'll be about another 240lb. The boat itself floats, of course, but I wanted enough lift in there to keep it level if swamped, and hold the motor up, even if I put a 4-stroke 40 on it one day or something. Basically I have a ring around the top edge of the boat, about 6"x6" of 2lb/cu.ft. foam, plus bonus space at the transom. I like the idea of keeping the foam high up on this thing because although my area is full of logs in the water, this boat won't be a speed demon and I'm not worried about staving in the hull on a big hemlock, really, so I can keep the foam up where water will naturally want to drain away from it instead of collect, plus it'll resist turtling on the off chance I ever need it to.
Other important news: soap bubbles are AMAZING
Here's the current state of things:
Back when I cut the side panels, I also cut the outwales or rubrails or however you want to look at that, because of course I could easily follow the curve of the hull panel that way. But I also cut 4 extra 1 1/2" strips following that curve, then split them longitudinally, and now I have 8x 3/4" strips that mirror the sheerline. I glued them to the inside of the hull stiffeners, to give me bands to attach the coaming to. Once I'd laminated them in place, they were pretty stiff and pretty hard to push out of their lam'd-in curvature. You can see here I've already glued on the first round, and now I'm laminating on the second one.
Then I was roughing in side decks and coaming and stuff...
Kind of a nice look but the wood isn't in good enough shape to do bright...thank god, or I would end up doing that.
Then it was coats of epoxy on everything to seal it up:
Coaming going on:
This is total paranoia but after two coats of epoxy I still paint surfaces if I won't be able to see them easily. Extra moisture protection.
And finally, I have the coaming in, and I'm placing foam blocks in the gunwales now. The gunwales alone should give about 240lb of positive floatation so this thing should be hard to flip when swamped. Under the breasthook there'll be a little more, although I haven't done the math on exactly how much - not enough to have a huge impact though.
At the transom, right below the decking on the side boxes and under the splash well, there'll be about another 240lb. The boat itself floats, of course, but I wanted enough lift in there to keep it level if swamped, and hold the motor up, even if I put a 4-stroke 40 on it one day or something. Basically I have a ring around the top edge of the boat, about 6"x6" of 2lb/cu.ft. foam, plus bonus space at the transom. I like the idea of keeping the foam high up on this thing because although my area is full of logs in the water, this boat won't be a speed demon and I'm not worried about staving in the hull on a big hemlock, really, so I can keep the foam up where water will naturally want to drain away from it instead of collect, plus it'll resist turtling on the off chance I ever need it to.
Other important news: soap bubbles are AMAZING
cracked_ribs
Well-Known Member
Decks are on all the way around. I put a bit of simple framing into the tops of the transom boxes just so I could use the leftover 1/4" meranti plywood without it flexing all over the place once there's downriggers mounted there. And also there's a bit of camber to the tops, so I needed some structure to support the curve. It's subtle but I think necessary to fit with the rest of the boat's lines.
So that led to this picture, which was the most satisfying one in quite a while:
But glory is fleeting. I went around and marked all the spots that needed a bit of fill between the decking and the rubrail. I did this by using a bit of masking tape so I could see everything really easily and pull the tape as I finished each spot, which is a handy way to keep track of stuff, think.
Having fixed the decking gaps, it was time to do a bit of routering:
That ought to hold a bit of rope.
Running out of stuff to build at this point, but might as well get some glass on the decks and coaming:
I guess today I'll go trim that all up, fix anything that needs to be fixed, and get the second set of outboard mount holes filled in and drilled.
What's left? I haven't put in the motorwell deck, I guess I could get that organized. That's probably the last item of any significant size. I'll do that this week and get her back on the water for more testing; I haven't gotten her wet since I did the outboard bracket and I'm looking forward to playing with motor height.
So that led to this picture, which was the most satisfying one in quite a while:
But glory is fleeting. I went around and marked all the spots that needed a bit of fill between the decking and the rubrail. I did this by using a bit of masking tape so I could see everything really easily and pull the tape as I finished each spot, which is a handy way to keep track of stuff, think.
Having fixed the decking gaps, it was time to do a bit of routering:
That ought to hold a bit of rope.
Running out of stuff to build at this point, but might as well get some glass on the decks and coaming:
I guess today I'll go trim that all up, fix anything that needs to be fixed, and get the second set of outboard mount holes filled in and drilled.
What's left? I haven't put in the motorwell deck, I guess I could get that organized. That's probably the last item of any significant size. I'll do that this week and get her back on the water for more testing; I haven't gotten her wet since I did the outboard bracket and I'm looking forward to playing with motor height.
cracked_ribs
Well-Known Member
I haven't weighed it, but it can't be too bad yet; let's do some quick math...
I think 15 gallons of epoxy, 140 lb
100 yd 6" 6oz tape, say 13lb
Hull fabric, must have been 40 yd 12 oz, 30lb
Plus the 7725 Rutan, probably another 10lb
Deck and sole fabric, might be 15 yards in there, under 10 lb anyway
Fir plywood, about a hundred pounds
Meranti...I think I used 8 sheets so 200
Of course there were also fillers and cleats and so on etc...but I didn't use 100%of the plywood, either.
I figure the above numbers aren't too far off so what's that, about 200 glass and 300 wood?
When I roll her out to hang the motor, probably this week, I'll see if I can still lift her at the transom. When I put her on the trailer I think she had about 3/4 of the material in her and I could lift the transom just folding my fingers under the hull, there was nowhere to grip any better than that.
But with the outboard bracket on, I bet I can still get the heavy end off the trailer by hand.
So I think lighter than she looks!
I think 15 gallons of epoxy, 140 lb
100 yd 6" 6oz tape, say 13lb
Hull fabric, must have been 40 yd 12 oz, 30lb
Plus the 7725 Rutan, probably another 10lb
Deck and sole fabric, might be 15 yards in there, under 10 lb anyway
Fir plywood, about a hundred pounds
Meranti...I think I used 8 sheets so 200
Of course there were also fillers and cleats and so on etc...but I didn't use 100%of the plywood, either.
I figure the above numbers aren't too far off so what's that, about 200 glass and 300 wood?
When I roll her out to hang the motor, probably this week, I'll see if I can still lift her at the transom. When I put her on the trailer I think she had about 3/4 of the material in her and I could lift the transom just folding my fingers under the hull, there was nowhere to grip any better than that.
But with the outboard bracket on, I bet I can still get the heavy end off the trailer by hand.
So I think lighter than she looks!
cracked_ribs
Well-Known Member
Not exactly scientific, but the transom end is the heavy end and it's not too bad. I couldn't have pressed that over my head or anything but it didn't feel like I was picking up much over 200 lbs, maybe 250. I think my math on the materials must be close.
I know a lot of people will say a heavy boat rides better and that is true...but you can always put more fuel, cannonballs and big ling jigs in a boat if you want it heavier. But if you build it heavy to start with, it won't get any lighter. Well, depending on just how much sanding you're willing to do, I guess.
At any rate this is pretty light but should be easily strong enough to handle the loads I'll be subjecting it to. It's not going to be a rocket or anything and the lamination schedule on the bottom, stringers and bulkheads would hold up for a much bigger, faster boat, so in theory I'm sure I could put a bigger motor on, go faster, and get away with it. I wouldn't want to put a 90 on it and run it at 50 knots or anything, for lots of reasons, but all I really wanted was a skiff that would plane at low speed, get me around the inside of Vancouver Island, and not burn a ton of fuel so I could happily take it out whenever I wanted without thinking about the cost.
Now I'm thinking I'll have to go back and look at the scantlings and load numbers and see exactly what it would tolerate - I bet it would actually put up with a fair bit of power, now that I'm thinking about it. It would be scary as hell, but I think I tied the stringers and bulkheads down with 12oz of glass per side, and the keel has 30 in, 24 out...the chines 24 in and out...yeah, I don't have the math in front of me but you could run this thing at pretty high speed, actually, if you had the nerve. I wouldn't do it, but with minor changes at the transom it would probably hold a 60. But it would be terrifying. A 60 would put this thing in orbit.
I know a lot of people will say a heavy boat rides better and that is true...but you can always put more fuel, cannonballs and big ling jigs in a boat if you want it heavier. But if you build it heavy to start with, it won't get any lighter. Well, depending on just how much sanding you're willing to do, I guess.
At any rate this is pretty light but should be easily strong enough to handle the loads I'll be subjecting it to. It's not going to be a rocket or anything and the lamination schedule on the bottom, stringers and bulkheads would hold up for a much bigger, faster boat, so in theory I'm sure I could put a bigger motor on, go faster, and get away with it. I wouldn't want to put a 90 on it and run it at 50 knots or anything, for lots of reasons, but all I really wanted was a skiff that would plane at low speed, get me around the inside of Vancouver Island, and not burn a ton of fuel so I could happily take it out whenever I wanted without thinking about the cost.
Now I'm thinking I'll have to go back and look at the scantlings and load numbers and see exactly what it would tolerate - I bet it would actually put up with a fair bit of power, now that I'm thinking about it. It would be scary as hell, but I think I tied the stringers and bulkheads down with 12oz of glass per side, and the keel has 30 in, 24 out...the chines 24 in and out...yeah, I don't have the math in front of me but you could run this thing at pretty high speed, actually, if you had the nerve. I wouldn't do it, but with minor changes at the transom it would probably hold a 60. But it would be terrifying. A 60 would put this thing in orbit.
cracked_ribs
Well-Known Member
Man, that'd be the perfect motor for performance on this thing, no question, plus I wouldn't have to give up the smell or sound of 2-strokes which I still love. An Etec 40 would fly, but it would move you through the chop at any speed in between. I'd love it.
Well, maybe this spring I'll sell my old DE 206 and see if it's worth as much as something like that. Now I have a few months to clean it up and get the trailer fixed up a bit before the spring boat market really hits. If I'd been smart I would have sold this spring, but there's a lot of things that would be different in my life if I were smart.
Well, maybe this spring I'll sell my old DE 206 and see if it's worth as much as something like that. Now I have a few months to clean it up and get the trailer fixed up a bit before the spring boat market really hits. If I'd been smart I would have sold this spring, but there's a lot of things that would be different in my life if I were smart.
Dorman Point
Well-Known Member
Look at that beautiful sheer!
The boat would be considerably lighter in loaded condition if you shaved your beard off.
cracked_ribs
Well-Known Member
But what if, like Samson, I lost all my strength when my hair was cut off?
Dorman Point
Well-Known Member
You no longer need strength. You’ve got that boat.
cracked_ribs
Well-Known Member
I apologize for the lack of updates and poor quality ones when they happen - been extremely busy here. And most of what I've been doing doesn't photograph well: finishing the parts for the motorwell and transom boxes, for example. "Here's another coat of epoxy on this plywood square" isn't very captivating.
I've also been playing with the boat a little, and spending more time with the kid, which slows the build down. But I'm just about finished the actual construction, I expect to be screwing around with cosmetics for a long time.
Anyway here's the latest.
Hasn't given up much in the way of stability, at least.
Finally got around to finishing the coaming at the bow
And prepped for non-skid
and laid on the non-skid
at both ends
and ran a 5' 1/3 strand of 1" manila through the stem, wrapping it back on itself as I went, to give me something to hook onto
and spent more time running around. Getting the motor dialed in but so far everyone who's sent me a prop, sent the wrong one, which has been really annoying. Two different companies, both sent the one for the through-prop exhaust. Anyway I'm getting pretty close.
No cheating, anyone who knows me from outside a build thread...soon I will be asking for bets on the following question:
How much does she weigh, and how fast does she go?
I've also been playing with the boat a little, and spending more time with the kid, which slows the build down. But I'm just about finished the actual construction, I expect to be screwing around with cosmetics for a long time.
Anyway here's the latest.
Hasn't given up much in the way of stability, at least.
Finally got around to finishing the coaming at the bow
And prepped for non-skid
and laid on the non-skid
at both ends
and ran a 5' 1/3 strand of 1" manila through the stem, wrapping it back on itself as I went, to give me something to hook onto
and spent more time running around. Getting the motor dialed in but so far everyone who's sent me a prop, sent the wrong one, which has been really annoying. Two different companies, both sent the one for the through-prop exhaust. Anyway I'm getting pretty close.
No cheating, anyone who knows me from outside a build thread...soon I will be asking for bets on the following question:
How much does she weigh, and how fast does she go?
