2019 Fraser Chinook Management Actions UPDATED!!

[browningmirage]

Let’s be clear, the other groups have also received this package and been asked for their opinions.

So, unless you get involved enough to write with your thoughts then they will not matter.

Guaranteed that the Greens are all over this and want to close the fishery

Come on now, I'm a green and I dont want the fishery closed.

This is a time to reflect on the state of our fishery. There are a lot of stocks that are doing very poorly. Even though removal of fishery mortality wouldn't stop the decline, it could give the opportunity to recover. A lot of these stocks are very high productivity at low abundance, and marine conditions are turning more favourable.

But really the environment has been altered so significantly, what do we expect? Fish dont survive with no food, or in water 5C warmer. Or when microplastics are becoming more prevalent than their food. Increasing hatchery production is a bandaid over an amputation.

There are obviously things we can do, managing sources of mortality in the environment, pinnipeds, habitat, and us. I dont want it closed, and if it does I want it to be equally shared amongst the user groups. But I dont want to be the guy to bonk the last one either.

 

[Whitebuck]

Wildmanyeah.....you think the returns will be better cause there.is no netting?
You really think there will.be no netting?
The only way the Fraser stocks have a chance is no nets.
Every area should still.be open to hatchery retention, especially areas like west Vancouver island where a large % of offshore fish are hatchery clipped.

 

[california]

Wildmanyeah.....you think the returns will be better cause there.is no netting?
You really think there will.be no netting?
The only way the Fraser stocks have a chance is no nets.

I don't disagree, but isn't that only possible under option A? In order to shut down the Fraser FN netting according to numerous legal rulings , other sport and Commercial fishing for those stocks would need to be completely shut down too.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Wildmanyeah.....you think the returns will be better cause there.is no netting?
You really think there will.be no netting?
The only way the Fraser stocks have a chance is no nets.
Every area should still.be open to hatchery retention, especially areas like west Vancouver island where a large % of offshore fish are hatchery clipped.

You obviously never read what I said, or i miss typed it. I was referring to all the commercial sockeye netting last year not the FSC netting. Are you saying that all the commercil netting last year had no impact on chinook stocks?

 

[wildmanyeah]

Every area should still.be open to hatchery retention, especially areas like west Vancouver island where a large % of offshore fish are hatchery clipped.

Id Imagine that this is something that people will argue for, No reason still not to allow at least 1 daily hatch retention in every area as well as the other restrictions.

 

[IronNoggin]

... Is commercial fishing even a profitable thing these days? Seems like a zero-sum game aside from the slaughter of course...

Nice choice of words: "slaughter".
You might want to do a little more homework before tossing out such vitriolic statements.
FYI - the recreational sector has taken FAR more than the troll fleets for quite some time now.
If there is a slaughter occurring, you need to look no further than your mirror.
Really.

DFO has been working towards the complete dismantlement of the WC troll fleets for years upon years.
For whatever reason, they long ago decided that the bag fleets were more to their favor.
The bag fleets that cannot come anywhere as close to being selective as trollers can.

At this point being an Area G Troller (WCVI) is no longer viable.
It actually hasn't been for a few years now, but this time around The Dino may well have dealt us a Death Blow.
Quota reduced to 8K for the entire fleet / season.
Now stating we will not open until after August.

Decades of sampling and analysis well proves we are of almost zero impact to the stocks in question.
Our catch ranges upwards of 95% US origin.
But they have an excuse to now realize their Agenda, and perhaps get us off the water for good.

This was the potential legal action I referred to above.

When our quotas were originally slashed, many in the recreational sector pointed and giggled with glee.
When our fishing timing was severely curtailed, many did the same.
When our areas were cut (we were informed 3 years ago Big Bank was forever more hands off), they laughed once again.
Should not have, it was foreshadowing of your own fate.

DFO swore on a stack of bibles they would never let the west coast collapse as they had the east.
Through years of gross incompetence, they have once again proven they speak with forked tongues.
Yes, there are other factors involved.
But the underlying issue lies directly at the feet of those, who through lack of competence and dedication to their mandate, brought us to where we are today.

If there is a way forward, I am having a hell of a time seeing it.
Especially with the same old same old running the downward spiral...

Sadly,
Nog

 

[TipUp]

I wrote a letter to Fisheries minister Wilkinson 3 months ago regarding SRKW...no response!

To say the least I am concerned about the future of our fisheries and particularly the disregard from DFO on hatchery investment and habitat restoration - credible ways to increase the chinook population. As other members have pointed out, reducing the fishery does not get to the "root of the problem. I believe that the recreational fishery allows young people to become more aware of their environment and therefore more concerned about issues effecting the health of our oceans. Without this connection to the environment, provided by the fishery, is the younger generation even going to care about the health of our oceans in the future? I am in my mid 20s and have been fishing for 15 years and in that short time have already seen drastic changes to sport fishing on the coast of BC, I hope the future us bright but right now I'm concerned there's a lack of focus from DFO to take actions to ensure the salmon resource is healthy.

The terminal fishery in Nootka Sound should be looked at as an excellent example of the value of hatcheries. Why isn't DFO investing in hatcheries now?

 

[Whitebuck]

Wmy you know my Thoughts on any netting.

 

[california]

The terminal fishery in Nootka Sound should be looked at as an excellent example of the value of hatcheries. Why isn't DFO investing in hatcheries now?

Because its not the 1970s, there is now enough known about hatcheries to understand they are not the panacea they were once thought to be. The underlying assumptions for the construction of hatcheries (the large commercial sized ones) that the river, estuary and ocean could sustain unlimited smolt production has proven to not be true. Genetic regression, and displacement of wild fish have emerged as serious concerns. There is no good science that predicts increasing runs substantially by increasing hatchery production. Furthermore the model of chinook enhancement is the Cowichan River where chinook releases went from a peak of almost 3 million to closer to 800,000 today with much improved runs due to river rehabilitation and enhanced water flows. Its not to say hatcheries should be shut down, they have a role, just that your simplified assumption that more hatchery production means more fish is no where near so simple, and if those funds were available they could probably be put to much better use in habitat rehabilitation and ensuring summer stream flows are adequate on systems with hydro installations.

 

[Irishwolf]

It seems like we need to send out an SOS call:

Save
Our
Salmon

I have been fishing my whole life, but I only started ocean fishing this past April (2018) and while I have yet to catch a summer run salmon, I'd like too and I'd like my son too as well.

If it's true that 83% of salmon mortality is attributed to spawning ground issues, then we need to focus our efforts on keeping the spawning grounds healthy. Given the many stresses and politics at play here, fixes will not happen overnight. In the interim, we need some type of solution that will keep the salmon alive. In this context, there is a wide body of research that show egg survival rate in hatcheries are better than egg survival rates in the wild. Typically < 1% of eggs in the wild survive to smolt stage, whereas (depending on species) anywhere from 10% to sometimes >80% of eggs survive to smolt size in hatcheries. And this makes sense because hatcheries can maintain peak survival conditions.

The downside to hatcheries however is loss of genetic diversity. I don't know what current hatchery practices are, but one answer to this is to use Wild fish as brood stock. I did an aquaculture degree some 20 odd years ago. Part of the program involved a visit to a local stream each fall to net and milk Wild brooding Chinook Salmon (These were Lake Ontario salmon). We'd do the fertilization by hand, then bring the eggs back to the schools hatchery where we'd raise them to smolts. Then in the spring, release the smolts back to the stream from which the eggs were taken. We had an 85% survival rate.

Success can me measured in many ways. If we look at our winter fishery, the majority of winter springs are hatchery fish. Thus, worst case scenario is we maintain some level of a fishery; best case scenario we are able to reintroduce wild salmon back to their natural restored spawning habitat.

Something needs to be done in the short term, hatcheries seem the logical answer.

 

[wildmanyeah]

The terminal fishery in Nootka Sound should be looked at as an excellent example of the value of hatcheries. Why isn't DFO investing in hatcheries now?

Wild salmon policy is being implemented and part of that policy is to limit hatchery production. Also as part of the wild salmon policy they have started to do a 5 year review on Chinook stocks. They break the stocks down by CU, Through this review many of the CU have been now rated as endangered, Apparently they have also added a few Nanaimo Chinook stocks to the list of endangered stocks now to.

The Conservative goverment was not a big fan of the wild salmon policy, instead they believe in keeping fisheries strong, As part of that policy tho they ignored some of the endangered CU. If they did knowledge them then some of these restrictions should of been in place 10-15 years ago. The Conservative goverment tho like many before it also did not put much money into fisheries and cut DFO to peaces.

Liberals seem to be putting some money back in but they like the wild salmon policy and also are way more favorable to giving more pie to First Nations. The goverment also has a duty to make sure that enough stocks get passed though to allow first nations to harvest. Now under a Conservative goverment the department did have more backing to stonewall this process however under a liberal goverment they do not.

To top it all off as well stocks have not been improving do to the many amount of factors and the pressure on these stocks is increasing from a growing west coast population.

so many factors its all confusing and lies and finger pointing from every direction from every sector.

as NOG said it really is hard to see a path forward

 

[Irishwolf]

Because its not the 1970s, there is now enough known about hatcheries to understand they are not the panacea they were once thought to be. The underlying assumptions for the construction of hatcheries (the large commercial sized ones) that the river, estuary and ocean could sustain unlimited smolt production has proven to not be true. Genetic regression, and displacement of wild fish have emerged as serious concerns. There is no good science that predicts increasing runs substantially by increasing hatchery production. Furthermore the model of chinook enhancement is the Cowichan River where chinook releases went from a peak of almost 3 million to closer to 800,000 today with much improved runs due to river rehabilitation and enhanced water flows. Its not to say hatcheries should be shut down, they have a role, just that your simplified assumption that more hatchery production means more fish is no where near so simple, and if those funds were available they could probably be put to much better use in habitat rehabilitation and ensuring summer stream flows are adequate on systems with hydro installations.

We need to invest in both. Hatcheries to keep the species alive, and habitat restoration. Anything can be done if the Will is there.

 

[wildmanyeah]

It seems like we need to send out an SOS call:

Save
Our
Salmon

I have been fishing my whole life, but I only started ocean fishing this past April (2018) and while I have yet to catch a summer run salmon, I'd like too and I'd like my son too as well.

If it's true that 83% of salmon mortality is attributed to spawning ground issues, then we need to focus our efforts on keeping the spawning grounds healthy. Given the many stresses and politics at play here, fixes will not happen overnight. In the interim, we need some type of solution that will keep the salmon alive. In this context, there is a wide body of research that show egg survival rate in hatcheries are better than egg survival rates in the wild. Typically < 1% of eggs in the wild survive to smolt stage, whereas (depending on species) anywhere from 10% to sometimes >80% of eggs survive to smolt size in hatcheries. And this makes sense because hatcheries can maintain peak survival conditions.

The downside to hatcheries however is loss of genetic diversity. I don't know what current hatchery practices are, but one answer to this is to use Wild fish as brood stock. I did an aquaculture degree some 20 odd years ago. Part of the program involved a visit to a local stream each fall to net and milk Wild brooding Chinook Salmon (These were Lake Ontario salmon). We'd do the fertilization by hand, then bring the eggs back to the schools hatchery where we'd raise them to smolts. Then in the spring, release the smolts back to the stream from which the eggs were taken. We had an 85% survival rate.

Success can me measured in many ways. If we look at our winter fishery, the majority of winter springs are hatchery fish. Thus, worst case scenario is we maintain some level of a fishery; best case scenario we are able to reintroduce wild salmon back to their natural restored spawning habitat.

Something needs to be done in the short term, hatcheries seem the logical answer.

This only works tho if you put a hatchery on ever stream, otherwise the streams that are not enhanced get over harvested. Wild salmon cannot compete will the egg productivity of a hatchery

You cant have your cake and eat it too, Can go to a hatchery policy and give up on wild salmon. Thats a valid option just no that some stocks will go extinct.

 

[advTHXance]

Nice choice of words: "slaughter".
You might want to do a little more homework before tossing out such vitriolic statements.
FYI - the recreational sector has taken FAR more than the troll fleets for quite some time now.
If there is a slaughter occurring, you need to look no further than your mirror.
Really.

DFO has been working towards the complete dismantlement of the WC troll fleets for years upon years.
For whatever reason, they long ago decided that the bag fleets were more to their favor.
The bag fleets that cannot come anywhere as close to being selective as trollers can.

At this point being an Area G Troller (WCVI) is no longer viable.
It actually hasn't been for a few years now, but this time around The Dino may well have dealt us a Death Blow.
Quota reduced to 8K for the entire fleet / season.
Now stating we will not open until after August.

Decades of sampling and analysis well proves we are of almost zero impact to the stocks in question.
Our catch ranges upwards of 95% US origin.
But they have an excuse to now realize their Agenda, and perhaps get us off the water for good.

This was the potential legal action I referred to above.

When our quotas were originally slashed, many in the recreational sector pointed and giggled with glee.
When our fishing timing was severely curtailed, many did the same.
When our areas were cut (we were informed 3 years ago Big Bank was forever more hands off), they laughed once again.
Should not have, it was foreshadowing of your own fate.

DFO swore on a stack of bibles they would never let the west coast collapse as they had the east.
Through years of gross incompetence, they have once again proven they speak with forked tongues.
Yes, there are other factors involved.
But the underlying issue lies directly at the feet of those, who through lack of competence and dedication to their mandate, brought us to where we are today.

If there is a way forward, I am having a hell of a time seeing it.
Especially with the same old same old running the downward spiral...

Sadly,
Nog

Dont really want to open this can of worms, but just so you know, I witness the Area F commercial troll fishery first-hand. It is definitely a slaughter, and to be fair the lodges are slaughtering them too. What do you think the ROI is on a commercially caught fish compared to a lodge caught fish?

 

[Irishwolf]

This only works tho if you put a hatchery on ever stream, otherwise the streams that are not enhanced get over harvested. Wild salmon cannot compete will the egg productivity of a hatchery

You cant have your cake and eat it too, Can go to a hatchery policy and give up on wild salmon. Thats a valid option just no that some stocks will go extinct.

I wish I could have my cake.

My point was we use hatcheries to help save the wild salmon. It wasn't an either/or scenario.

 

[feelin swell]

I wrote a letter to Fisheries minister Wilkinson 3 months ago regarding SRKW...no response!

To say the least I am concerned about the future of our fisheries and particularly the disregard from DFO on hatchery investment and habitat restoration - credible ways to increase the chinook population. As other members have pointed out, reducing the fishery does not get to the "root of the problem. I believe that the recreational fishery allows young people to become more aware of their environment and therefore more concerned about issues effecting the health of our oceans. Without this connection to the environment, provided by the fishery, is the younger generation even going to care about the health of our oceans in the future? I am in my mid 20s and have been fishing for 15 years and in that short time have already seen drastic changes to sport fishing on the coast of BC, I hope the future us bright but right now I'm concerned there's a lack of focus from DFO to take actions to ensure the salmon resource is healthy.

The terminal fishery in Nootka Sound should be looked at as an excellent example of the value of hatcheries. Why isn't DFO investing in hatcheries now?

If DFO is serious about quick butt solutions to the SRKW's and Frazer Chinook problems then they should be willing to seek emergency funding for new hatcheries. I don't hatcheries are a good long term solution but certainly would be a good short term one. They have to also look at the way the commercial sector is currently working. Eliminating the incidental catch could be one way to make a difference in returns like steelhead. Slowly moving to a commercial terminal fishery where estimates of returns could be more accurate and harvest numbers easier to manage. The current management practices in all fishery sectors needs a good review and overhaul imo. Its obvious the status quo is not working very well. There needs to be fresh thinking and action.

On the other hand DFO's new aggressive moves on fishing could simply be part of a mandate from Ottawa to own the environmental high ground on the west coast in light of the pipeline issue (pure speculation). Regardless there are obvious problems that require change and we need to do a better job.

 

[greenhornet]

Hello gents some good stuff here good conversation anyways I see that Washington and Oregon state is really ramping up chinook hatchery production in the next 1-4 years give it a read. It’s titled NEW FISH HATCHERY in the same forum as this one conservation politics etc. At least thier trying to do their part as a short term fix to help feed the srkw and have some direction not like thier counterparts up here.who as we know has dropped the ball on the one yard line for many decades... sad really.

Tight lines
Billydoo

 

[IronNoggin]

Dont really want to open this can of worms...

Then don't.

Just so you know, I am an Area G Troller, and have worked in Area F.
Guess you could say I have first hand experience, and actually know what I am talking about.

Nog

 

[greenhornet]

Nog you were or are a sportsfishing guide I know because I was on your boat some years ago so you know all about the sportsfishing end as well

 

[advTHXance]

Should I be surprised that a commercial fisherman that fishes an unviable (your words) fishery takes issue with me describing what occurs as a slaughter? Do you have a better word for it?

hjgfjdfghkjfdhg

Like I said before I really didnt want to open this can of worms so Im just gonna leave it as is.