100 + Tonne of Herring fished off Nanoose

[Englishman]

I'll take a few roll mops and maybe a tray or two for fishing..... But herring for fish farm feed.... COME ON MAN!

Hambone,
That's what fish feed lots do! Rob Peter to pay Paul. They encourage industries which "grind up" thousands of tons of food fish all over the world and they would do it here as well if they could, ecological damage be damned.
After all, we don't really want all those hard to manage pesky wild salmon all over the place do we, spreading disease to the fish feed lots and getting in the way of industrial development of rivers and pipeline routes!!

 

[Jencourt]

In my opinion, the fact that demand for roe has been on the decline is the best thing that could have happened. I would suspect that there is a direct correlation between decreased harvest and today's modest increase in run sizes. The fact that the powers that be are actively seeking new markets to keep alive a fishery that should not exist except in a very minimal form is sad.

As someone who has been fishing the Georgia strait on and off over the last 40+ years,I can say from my experience that we have a long way to go before things resemble the way it was.

If we are going to keep pushing for enhancement and rebuilding of our treasured "Herring eating" fin fish stocks such as Chinook and the likes, then we better consider what it is they will eat. My 40+ years of fishing has consistently showed me that where there is herring there are Salmon.

I get concerned when some people (usually the ones making money from it), use a small increase in stocks to promote how well they are doing at making sure they do not take too much. The fact is we are miles from recovered, and more times than not an increase in harvest seems to go hand in hand with an increase in abundance. I would think that more abundance could be left to grow and see how the predatory fish numbers respond to that as we keep pushing for restoration and enhancement.That is why I am against pursuing more markets for Herring.

Just another complicated issue that we have been discussing for as long as I can remember. Or is it really that complicated ? If ya whant Big fish ya need small fish for food

The End

 

[hambone]

Good post.... It would be nice to see as many herring as there was even 15-20 years ago..

 

[fortyfour]

In my opinion, the fact that demand for roe has been on the decline is the best thing that could have happened. I would suspect that there is a direct correlation between decreased harvest and today's modest increase in run sizes. The fact that the powers that be are actively seeking new markets to keep alive a fishery that should not exist except in a very minimal form is sad.

As someone who has been fishing the Georgia strait on and off over the last 40+ years,I can say from my experience that we have a long way to go before things resemble the way it was.

If we are going to keep pushing for enhancement and rebuilding of our treasured "Herring eating" fin fish stocks such as Chinook and the likes, then we better consider what it is they will eat. My 40+ years of fishing has consistently showed me that where there is herring there are Salmon.

I get concerned when some people (usually the ones making money from it), use a small increase in stocks to promote how well they are doing at making sure they do not take too much. The fact is we are miles from recovered, and more times than not an increase in harvest seems to go hand in hand with an increase in abundance. I would think that more abundance could be left to grow and see how the predatory fish numbers respond to that as we keep pushing for restoration and enhancement.That is why I am against pursuing more markets for Herring.

Just another complicated issue that we have been discussing for as long as I can remember. Or is it really that complicated ? If ya whant Big fish ya need small fish for food

The End

Amen to that! Made me start thinking about Active Pass. Up until the mid 80's was full of Herring and Chinook salmon would hold in the area in great numbers. Starting in the 50's there was even a fishing lodge right in the pass. Hundreds of boats would come from as far away as Seattle to fish Active Pass. There was a massive Herring spawn every year in Long Harbour on Saltspring Island as well as many other bays in the area. What happened to all of that Herring?!?!? and all the Chinook that fed on them. I have seen and have access to old black and white photos documenting how glorious of a fishing spot Active Pass was. Everyone could jig up their own herring for bait as the pass was literally filled with herring. There is even an original film of the Galiano Lodge showing off the abundance of fish to be had. WTF!!!

 

[Jencourt]

Amen to that! Made me start thinking about Active Pass. Up until the mid 80's was full of Herring and Chinook salmon would hold in the area in great numbers. Starting in the 50's there was even a fishing lodge right in the pass. Hundreds of boats would come from as far away as Seattle to fish Active Pass. There was a massive Herring spawn every year in Long Harbour on Saltspring Island as well as many other bays in the area. What happened to all of that Herring?!?!? and all the Chinook that fed on them. I have seen and have access to old black and white photos documenting how glorious of a fishing spot Active Pass was. Everyone could jig up their own herring for bait as the pass was literally filled with herring. There is even an original film of the Galiano Lodge showing off the abundance of fish to be had. WTF!!!

It would be awesome if you could scan some of those old shots and post them for all of us to enjoy.

Not for the purpose of this debate. Start a new thread for the sole purpose of letting us enjoy some shots of those before us enjoying what it is that so many of us are passionate about today.

Cheers:Ray

 

[chris73]

And maybe Herring Expert Captn Hook could explain to us where all the once so plentyful herring in the Victoria Gorge went. Until 10 years ago the Gorge had an incredible run and spawn of herring!? Well managed? Into the ground?

 

[Derby]

If you take a look at the state of the Georgia Strait over the last 20 plus years you would have notice that everything was indecline..just not herring...GS has and was refered to as a black hole.....If you take notice as perhaps in last the last 4 years everything has started to rebuild ...kelp..sea weed..herring stocks and slowly salmon and steelhead stocks to name a few...ocean conditions in most parts have turned a corner...all this is connected...water temp being one of the biggest factors

 

[GLG]

So it looks like maybe I should give the history lesson.....
Here is a DFO website that everyone should have a look at
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/scienc...eng/herspawn/pages/stockreg-eng.htm#bookmark7
You can look at the history of the area that effects you by using the "enter region #" link on the left next to the region you would like the history of. If you not inclined to do your research you can stay on the main page and look at the data and see that SOG is the last place on the BC coast to have a commercial herring fishery. Why is that? Perhaps what DFO and the Commercials believe that you can harvest up to 10% of the biomass is wrong. It seems that history shows that when the commercials go into an area and harvest..... they leave it barren from many years to come. That's why some of use here in the SOG want them off the water..... before we are the next "map" with a sad history.....
GLG

 

[capt hook]

nothing will ever be the way it was....
just look around where you live , your house , your neighbourhood , ....will it ever be like it was 20 40 yrs ago....?
NO ...
but , as a responsible industry , that supports families , the herring fishery is trying and succeeding in being sustainable.
I,m not saying it always was , but things change and it is much much better than ever before.
And for all the flame throwers on here....ask yourself if your business is doing the same. Whats your footprint like?

As for fishfarm food....i,m not infavour , but its being discussed . And i suppose it is better more natural food than the pellets they feed them now.

 

[Dave S]

unfortuantely the economy in japan and the diet there has changed and the market is in the tank.

pretty fortunate for the herring and ecosystems that rely on them.

 

[Andrew P]

Jencourt> great post.

Capt Hook. There is no disputing that the herring fishery is trying to be sustainable but there is no way that this will be sustainable in the long term if things keep going like they are. Just look what has happened in Howe Sound with a very short amount of time to allow a recovery. Herring can bounce back very quickly if they given a bit of space. Howe Sound has seen a near DOUBLING of herring return every year for the last 5 years. The math adds up quickly and the results are much quicker than one might think. And Howe Sound is seeing things it has not seen in 40 years as a result, so I, an eternal optimist, have faith that things can turn around. Not if we stay on this path though.

And don't assume that people on here(me in particular) are uneducated on the subject...it makes you sound ignorant, which doesn't seem to be the case under the surface.

You make a great point that we all need to be looking in the mirror about how we run our own businesses and live our lives. I've done this and made some huge changes in my company that will result in more Canadian jobs and less imports. It is not an easy road to go down, but I think it is worth all of the effort.

We should be thinking about our local economy and food supply. We never seem to think about the multiplier effect of shopping/eating locally. We export our spot prawns to asia and then are served swamp prawns in restaurants and grocery stores. Same goes for most species that we harvest commercially. We export the good and import the crap. Maybe the 'ecomony' makes a couple points on the trade, but what is the actual gain when the food we are importing is of much lower quality. Canada should be feeding Canada first.

 

[wstcoaster]

yuo old timers heve a short memory; herring heve been fished for many many years on this coast; more heavily than last few years; in late 50s and 60s basicly fish out; fishing for them summer and winter pitlamping at night cleaned them right out; fishing was stopped by fishermens request; and stopped for around 10 yrs;this brought stocks back from the brinkl and wasonly opened for roe fisheries;under roe fishery stocks continued to build; i think that the biomass in strait of georgia last year one of highed on record; herring from central coast and queen charlottes inter mix as tagging a few years showed and are compromized by elligal herring roe fisheries by natives which dfo could not stop and in the end gave up and let natives have their way with them; thus low stocks in these area; but very healthy where managed properly by herring advisory board and dfo

 

[fish4all]

Andrew can you explain this "There is no disputing that the herring fishery is trying to be sustainable but there is no way that this will be sustainable in the long term if things keep going like they are."

Science has determined that you can harvest 20% of the herring biomass without damage. currently the commercials are taking about 6% if that.

The west coast and lower part of the province has experienced warm water over the last few years exactly as Derby has stated. That has increased the pilchard populations that directly compete with herring. it is expected the lower stocks will not rebuild until the water cools and the pilchard migrate south again.

I have done spawn on kelp SOK in the past and yes it is better to take the eggs and release the herring but not the way it is being conducted in the central coast. it is a totally un-managed fishery. When the kelp and eggs are harvested they are put in brine. it is a flood of product to the dock as the market is very small. any extra sok is shoveled off the dock dead into the ocean. we are talking tons of eggs.

The stocks on the QCI are rebuilding. My understanding is it is just below cut off, has been increasing every year slowly but with such a limited budget dfo has been unable to get a good understanding of what is in the area. Also from tagging we do know the QCI and central area stocks mix in hecate straits as mentioned above and the illegal native fishery in both areas is having an impact.

You want the chinook back that's easy. A) clean and enhance the streams or B) limit or at least monitor the groups that are still continuing to knocking the crap out of the stocks.

 

[Andrew P]

Where is this science that supports that you can take 20% of the biomass without damage?? I sure wish that was true.

Are you talking about 20% of a healthy population that has never had any harvesting?
20% of the adult spawners?

There is a big difference between taking 20% of the youngest and 20% of the oldest. You can't generalize about the age classes just like you can't generalize about the VERY distinct areas. They may be taking 6% of the total biomass, but are focusing on the oldest fish.

 

[wstcoaster]

andrew nature takes care of many things as herring stocks dwindle they start spawing at an earlier age 3 yrs for example; to small to be of commerial interestt

 

[Andrew P]

FACT: Not all of the roe quota was filled last year in SOG. Fact: the reason was not because of lack of fish, but lack of OLDER FEMALE spawners. DFO told me so, so it must be true! HA.

Fish4All - you tell me how the current system IS sustainable. There are so many areas that are having zero return. The roe fishery selects the largest females. hence why there are no large herring in the SOG.

Here are some numbers for the SOG by age class from 2005-2010. Note the big differences in age class size from year to year(and the fact that they never seem to get that big...). You can't tell me that taking 20% of the population on any given year isn't going to have a different effect than another year. And yet, that is the rule that they go with.

 

[Andrew P]

wstcoaster...exactly what happened last year. But the 3yrs are big enough for the 'other markets'. Can the 2 year olds spawn when all of the 3s are gone?!

 

[hambone]

If you take a look at the state of the Georgia Strait over the last 20 plus years you would have notice that everything was indecline..just not herring...GS has and was refered to as a black hole.....If you take notice as perhaps in last the last 4 years everything has started to rebuild ...kelp..sea weed..herring stocks and slowly salmon and steelhead stocks to name a few...ocean conditions in most parts have turned a corner...all this is connected...water temp being one of the biggest factors

I like the sounds of that! Would have to agree it does seem like things are improving a bit in the last few. So mooching live herring may one day be back in style? Awesome

 

[Derby]

I like the sounds of that! Would have to agree it does seem like things are improving a bit in the last few. So mooching live herring may one day be back in style? Awesome

I would love to see that again or the days of cut plugging Polier and Active Pass... fun time had bye all back then..the times are changing and will continue to change.....

 

[Duffer]

And maybe Herring Expert Captn Hook could explain to us where all the once so plentyful herring in the Victoria Gorge went. Until 10 years ago the Gorge had an incredible run and spawn of herring!? Well managed? Into the ground?

Chris there isnt any left there is there? That run used to be large. Makes ya wonder eh.